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I finally shot a 1911 today, first time. Rented a Springfield Armory 1911 in 9mm. Ammo was $15 cheaper than 45 ammo. As expected the trigger was excellent. I shot it back to back with my Canik TP9SF. It's not stock. I put in a FreedomSmith trigger & a Galloway Precision spring reduction kit. It's the most accurate centerfire pistol I ever owned or shot. I put 7 rounds in each pistol & shot them back to back for an hour. The triggers felt identical. Pre-travel & break were the same, I could not tell them apart. The 1911 was comfortable but the Canik grip fit my hand a little better. Recoil was much softer with the 1911. It's heavier. I shot slightly smaller groups with the Canik. I went on the Springfield Armory website to learn about this 1911. Oops. They have 7. I have no idea which one this is. It was blue/black, had wood grips & was full size.
 

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I finally shot a 1911 today, first time. Rented a Springfield Armory 1911 in 9mm. Ammo was $15 cheaper than 45 ammo. As expected the trigger was excellent. I shot it back to back with my Canik TP9SF. It's not stock. I put in a FreedomSmith trigger & a Galloway Precision spring reduction kit. It's the most accurate centerfire pistol I ever owned or shot. I put 7 rounds in each pistol & shot them back to back for an hour. The triggers felt identical. Pre-travel & break were the same, I could not tell them apart. The 1911 was comfortable but the Canik grip fit my hand a little better. Recoil was much softer with the 1911. It's heavier. I shot slightly smaller groups with the Canik. I went on the Springfield Armory website to learn about this 1911. Oops. They have 7. I have no idea which one this is. It was blue/black, had wood grips & was full size.
Well if you're serious about getting a 1911 in the $400 maybe a little more price range. Then you won't be getting a Springfield unless you can find a used one. If you do go the Rock Island route be sure to check it out first. Tony Pasley in post #22 is happy with his so that's a start. Not only that but if something were to break there are God only knows how many replacement parts for a 1911. Providing that the Rock Island guns are made to the same tolerances and specs as the great majority of 1911's that are being manufactured today.
 

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As much as I like my Series 70 Colt .45 I have to say as a defense gun I would pick my CZ 97b. Both guns are stock and staying that way. The CZ is 10 plus 1, has a DA/SA trigger that I prefer and better sights. Th 97b IS heavy which some don't like but I feel the weight is a felt recoil reducer and in a good holster I carry it all day without discomfort. I have no idea what a Colt Series 70 goes for these day's but the CZ 97b, if your lucky enough to fine one, is around $900.00. I carried that Colt for twenty years and I'm never getting rid of it, but gun development, like everything, moves on.
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Wood Gun accessory
Photograph Air gun Trigger Wood Mammal
 

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I finally shot a 1911 today, first time. Rented a Springfield Armory 1911 in 9mm. Ammo was $15 cheaper than 45 ammo. As expected the trigger was excellent. I shot it back to back with my Canik TP9SF. It's not stock. I put in a FreedomSmith trigger & a Galloway Precision spring reduction kit. It's the most accurate centerfire pistol I ever owned or shot. I put 7 rounds in each pistol & shot them back to back for an hour. The triggers felt identical. Pre-travel & break were the same, I could not tell them apart. The 1911 was comfortable but the Canik grip fit my hand a little better. Recoil was much softer with the 1911. It's heavier. I shot slightly smaller groups with the Canik. I went on the Springfield Armory website to learn about this 1911. Oops. They have 7. I have no idea which one this is. It was blue/black, had wood grips & was full size.
If it is a range rental it was likely the “GI” Or “Range Officer” model. So, a stock 1911 trigger and a custom Canik trigger have similar properties. As I had indicated in my initial reply, the 1911 trigger has been one that other triggers try to emulate.

A tuned 1911 trigger is in yet another category.

Recoil was more tame in a stock 1911 because of weight, yet the SFX has additional length in barrel and slide which puts more forward weight on the pistol to mitigate recoil. The “penalty” is a bigger overall handgun Than it needs to be.

So, in same chambering, one can get a stock trigger that rivals a custom replacement, (I haven‘t priced the triggers and springs you mentioned, but one must add those into the cost equation as an added cost on top of the purchase price of the handgun, to be fair.). And the 1911 displays better recoil management in a more compact package.

I guess those qualities could go in the “appeal of the 1911” column.

(And I’m not anti Canik. Have a couple myself and think they are a bargain.)
 

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And if we are comparing MSRP for a Canik TP9 SFX, they are $549. Add $80ish bucks for a Freedomsmith trigger and you are in 1911 territory.
 

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CZ's are outstanding pistols that's for sure. I have seven of them. As far as easier clean up and maintenance than a 1911? If you're talking about a basic field strip they're not much different than a 1911 except on a CZ you do not have to retract the slide as far. Just line up the marks on the frame and slide and remove the slide stop. However you need the magazine base plate, the end of a screw driver handle or something similar to push in the slide stop.
Having just acquired a Rock Island, I can testify that the 1911 is 10x more a pain in the ass than the CZ to reassemble. Why? Getting the spring and spring plug in is a major pain in the butt for me. The plug kept slipping out and flying across the room. It took me quite some time to get it done, including the time to find the plug each time it flew away. And I've heard of other experienced people occasionally dealing with this issue (it's even mentioned from time to time by experienced gun guys on Youtube). Granted, I'm a beginner, but the fact that it is this hard and that you have "to get used to it" and that even long time 1911 users still sometimes see the plug fly out means that this gun is too much of a pain for lots of people and for the experienced is still an annoyance. I've seen nothing on my Glock or CZ that even comes close to this. To you it may be trivial, but it's not to some like me. And I bet that many people who don't shoot it much and bought it only because of its history think it's a pain as well.
 

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Having just acquired a Rock Island, I can testify that the 1911 is 10x more a pain in the ass than the CZ to reassemble. Why? Getting the spring and spring plug in is a major pain in the butt for me. The plug kept slipping out and flying across the room. It took me quite some time to get it done, including the time to find the plug each time it flew away. And I've heard of other experienced people occasionally dealing with this issue (it's even mentioned from time to time by experienced gun guys on Youtube). Granted, I'm a beginner, but the fact that it is this hard and that you have "to get used to it" and that even long time 1911 users still sometimes see the plug fly out means that this gun is too much of a pain for lots of people and for the experienced is still an annoyance. I've seen nothing on my Glock or CZ that even comes close to this. To you it may be trivial, but it's not to some like me. And I bet that many people who don't shoot it much and bought it only because of its history think it's a pain as well.
IF your plug can come out the back (they can't on a Springfield) - then buy this:


I have owned 2 of these tooless guiderods. They are fantastic and make disassembly easier. It's just a pain in the ass to the the spring on the guiderod and captured the very first time you install the spring on it. After that - very easy.
 

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Having just acquired a Rock Island, I can testify that the 1911 is 10x more a pain in the ass than the CZ to reassemble. Why? Getting the spring and spring plug in is a major pain in the butt for me. The plug kept slipping out and flying across the room. It took me quite some time to get it done, including the time to find the plug each time it flew away. And I've heard of other experienced people occasionally dealing with this issue (it's even mentioned from time to time by experienced gun guys on Youtube). Granted, I'm a beginner, but the fact that it is this hard and that you have "to get used to it" and that even long time 1911 users still sometimes see the plug fly out means that this gun is too much of a pain for lots of people and for the experienced is still an annoyance. I've seen nothing on my Glock or CZ that even comes close to this. To you it may be trivial, but it's not to some like me. And I bet that many people who don't shoot it much and bought it only because of its history think it's a pain as well.
There's a difference between basic field stripping and disassembling and reassembling a pistol. Disassembling and reassembling a pistol to me means taking the pistol completely apart which the manufacturer does not recommend that people do as not everybody has experience working on guns. A basic field strip is something that every person who owns a gun has to do in order to clean it. As I mentioned in my post #16 "As far as a complete disassembly/reassembly they can be a real pain in the ass." I also gave a brief description comparing the disassembly/reassembly of a CZ as compared to a 1911.

It sounds to me like you're talking about removing and replacing the recoil spring on a Rock Island 1911 as opposed to a CZ? You may be right as I don't own a Rock Island 1911. I have 3 Kimber's, 1 Colt, 1 Detonics Combat Master and 2 Wilson's. They all have different recoil spring assemblies, some are captured, some are not. None of which are more difficult to remove and replace than on a CZ. In fact I've never had any problems removing the recoil spring assembly on any gun that I own. But then again I've worked on guns now for some 40 years. The only issue if you want to call it that is that on a CZ you need to use the magazine floor plate, the end of a small screwdriver handle or something similar in order to remove the slide stop. Because there is a spring that snaps into a groove that is milled into the end of the slide stop. If it slips off the slide stop you could end up scratching the side of your gun. Sometimes it's hard to push the slide stop back in or remove it because it's under tension and snaps in place. Myself I polish the end of the slide stop which makes it somewhat easier to remove and replace. You do not have to do that on a 1911.
 

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IF your plug can come out the back (they can't on a Springfield) - then buy this:


I have owned 2 of these tooless guiderods. They are fantastic and make disassembly easier. It's just a pain in the ass to the the spring on the guiderod and captured the very first time you install the spring on it. After that - very easy.
I'll have to look into this. I'm not sure if this works or not with the RIA. I'm also looking into replacing the full length guide rod with a shorter one as that may help getting the spring back in. I have some hand strength problems, especially in the thumbs, so this is particularly frustrating to me.
I'll have to look into this as I don't know if it'll work. Also, the RIA has a full length guide rod and I might switch it with a shorter GI rod. This is especially frustrating to me as I have hand strength issues especially in the thumbs. I still like the aesthetics of the 1911 but I would never recommend this to newbies nor to older people. And I'm certain the CZ is a better universal design. Punching out the stop is nothing compared to this basic reassembly issue.
 

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I'll have to look into this as I don't know if it'll work. Also, the RIA has a full length guide rod and I might switch it with a shorter GI rod. This is especially frustrating to me as I have hand strength issues especially in the thumbs. I still like the aesthetics of the 1911 but I would never recommend this to newbies nor to older people. And I'm certain the CZ is a better universal design. Punching out the stop is nothing compared to this basic reassembly issue.
As long as your plug can go out the BACK of the slide, and not just out the front, this setup is amazing.

They make a version for a bull barrel too.

This really eliminates that annoying step for reassembly. Now, I bought one for a Springfield once, and had to return it. Springfields have a "shoulder" (that is what Springfield called it when I called them), and this prevents the spring cap from coming out the back. I was told a gunsmith could remove that if I wanted.

But, I've used this on an Ed Brown and also on a Dan Wesson. SO, so simple to put back together and take apart with it.
 

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Disassembled. Yes, I used a screwdriver and punches because it makes things just a touch easier, but…Browning did design the 1911 in such a way that the entire pistol could be completely disassembled using only the parts of the pistol itself.



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Given my experience with finally trying a 1911 would I buy one? Yes. I liked it & it would be my next gun. Probably a Rock Island Armory given my budget. I quit buying guns when the ammo shortage hit & this year I had some unexpected expenses so I won't be buying another gun anytime soon but 15 is enough for now. Will see how things go next year. I'm retired but thinking about a part time job soon. Cost me $4K to stay alive when I got COVID.
 

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I've been very impressed with Magnum Research 1911's, especially the G model (recently got it for my personal use). The build/fit quality is great, and it's hard to beat the value you get for the price. Put 150 rounds through it - not a single hiccup. I am also contemplating stocking some Fusion models but haven't made up my mind - not a lot of unbiassed reviews out there, and to me, it kind of looks like a "generic" Colt. What do you guys think about it?
 

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I've been very impressed with Magnum Research 1911's, especially the G model (recently got it for my personal use). The build/fit quality is great, and it's hard to beat the value you get for the price. Put 150 rounds through it - not a single hiccup. I am also contemplating stocking some Fusion models but haven't made up my mind - not a lot of unbiassed reviews out there, and to me, it kind of looks like a "generic" Colt. What do you guys think about it?
I don’t have a fully factory built Fusion, but bought a fitted slide, frame, barrel and bushing from them and completed the rest of the pistol myself. I needed a pistol For service pistol competitions, and that was what I went with. At the time I bought, the head of the company used to be with Dan Wesson, which made/makes very nice 1911s and was taken over by CZ.

The frame, slide and barrel are all high quality, (my frame and slide were US forged, machined and fitted parts). The pistol easily is more capable accuracy wise than I am, but I remember the first mag that I put through it at 50 feet sending every round into a one hole group, and having a permanent grin on my face for the whole range session, with how well the whole pistol came out and performed. (You know you get kind of nervous, when you spend a chunk of money, then spend a couple months hand fitting parts, that it just isn’t going to meet expectations.)

So, I know they have some high quality parts, and the handwork they did on their end, in fitting the slide, frame, barrel and bushing together, was above your mass production grade 1911s.

That is about as unbiased as I can give you.
 

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I don't really have an answer but Here is a true story ... A good friend retired from Law Enforcement and opened a gun shop ... sold arms ammunition and reloading gear , all manner of handguns , rifles and shotguns .
He told me he wished he had nothing but 1911's ... " I can sell every 1911 that I can get my hands on ... it wont stay here two days before it's sold ... it's amazing ... I have a list of customers that I call when I get one in ... if I could get a train boxcar full of 1911's I could sell them all and at a good profit ! "
He couldn't explain it either ... the design is as old as dirt ... all I can say is as I type this lying on the desk is a 1911 45 acp AMT Hardballer with a magazine full of comforting 45 cal. slugs .
Gary
 
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