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I quit talking guns with my wife & her family. Not interested. When crime went up in my area I signed her up for a women's only new shooter class. And her sister. Took them to the range a few times & they tried a dozen different guns. Then they lost interest but years later incidents happened with her sister so they went to another new shooter class to relearn what they forgot. Took them to the range again 4 times. Soon they lost interest again. Political tension rose last November so 2 other sisters & a niece wanted to learn to shoot. Briefly. Then they all lost interest. I can't even mention anything gun related around the house or my head gets bit off. I did manage to buy her a can of pepper spray. She & her 5 sisters are driving out of state for 2 weeks. 2,500 miles. Unarmed. Because being armed scares them more than being killed. Can't change a tire or check fluids but they have smart phones. The world is way more dangerous than 50 years ago. Some adapt, some don't. Of all the victims of crime, how many woke up that morning expecting to be attacked? Probably under 5%. This is why I always carry. Oh, another niece did get her carry license & a gun! One night a man pulled her out of her car, tried to pin her to the ground & ripped off most of her cloths. She fought him off & got away. The next day she bought a gun & goes to the range all the time.
 
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I have fought the same battle, said the same things, and used the same examples.... With the same results. But, I finally figured out those people should not have guns anyway. If they did have one and something happened, they would be too scared to use it....
 

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Have faith. The human race is not in danger of going extinct. The herd does get culled from time to time and that's just the way it is. Speaking for myself, I worry a lot about my two daughters, both grown, and my wife. My granddaughter wants to get a gun as soon as she is out of college and can do this. She would be the one to carry between her and the other females in my family.

We can knock our heads against the wall until we're loopy but some people are just not going to get the message and take the initiative. Sad but that's the way it is.
 

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I quit talking guns with my wife & her family. Not interested. When crime went up in my area I signed her up for a women's only new shooter class. And her sister. Took them to the range a few times & they tried a dozen different guns. Then they lost interest but years later incidents happened with her sister so they went to another new shooter class to relearn what they forgot. Took them to the range again 4 times. Soon they lost interest again. Political tension rose last November so 2 other sisters & a niece wanted to learn to shoot. Briefly. Then they all lost interest. I can't even mention anything gun related around the house or my head gets bit off. I did manage to buy her a can of pepper spray. She & her 5 sisters are driving out of state for 2 weeks. 2,500 miles. Unarmed. Because being armed scares them more than being killed. Can't change a tire or check fluids but they have smart phones. The world is way more dangerous than 50 years ago. Some adapt, some don't. Of all the victims of crime, how many woke up that morning expecting to be attacked? Probably under 5%. This is why I always carry. Oh, another niece did get her carry license & a gun! One night a man pulled her out of her car, tried to pin her to the ground & ripped off most of her cloths. She fought him off & got away. The next day she bought a gun & goes to the range all the time.
I hear ya man, I’m in the same boat with my girlfriend. At least she’s not some slimy liberal who hates guns(I wouldn’t be with her if she was) but she’s just pretty much stuck where I was all the way up to about five years ago when although I didn’t hate guns, didn’t hate hunting or shooting, I just had no desire to have a handgun, or even carry one so I never bought one and even turned down a really nice full-size Springfield XD 45 that my mom tried to give me that she had bought at a garage sale after completing a three or four day women’s only shooting and tactics course. It turned out to be way too big for her and instead of selling it for something smaller, since she had a really good job, she offered it to me for free but since I just wasn’t that into guns, I told her to sell it and use the money to get something a lot more her.

I even tried giving my girlfriend the Ruger LC9S I used to carry before I bought the XDE Springfield I have now but she wouldn’t take it. I’ve taken her to the range one time and the only gun of mine she shot was my Compact Beretta PX4 9mil but it was too much for her little frame. If I didn’t have a Talon grip on it I could’ve let her try it with the smallest back strap but I doubt it would’ve mattered. I’ve even offered to buy her a little 380 but she just won’t take it so, I’ve just made up my mind to leave it at that. It’s no sense in arguing with her because she’s a stubborn, strong-willed person that pushes back harder the harder you push. I don’t like her going unarmed but hopefully if an intruder ever breaks in the house, she knows where the little 9mm Beretta is and where my little five-shot pocket rocket 22 magnum revolver is.


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My primary carry, if I carry, is a G23.4. It's my choice my gun rights include not carrying. How many of the people who have permits have not fired a handgun since. Ray Charles could pass our carry class. The safety and general information portion is excellent. I shoot at an indoor range. The general level or marksmanship sucks seriously. How to use the gun has to be factored in to carry discussion. How many people carry who look like a monkey making love to a football handling a handgun?

My sister lives alone. She passed the carry class marksman course at a 100% using my Model 19-5 using 38 special handloads at 100% She is interesting home defense. That should be good enough.
 

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I’ve recently been going through firearms my father-in-law owns And doing some deep cleaning on them. I was with him when he purchase a couple. He wanted a gun to carry, and he thought the 1911 was the be-all/end-all handgun. He got one, I went out with him a couple times, when he shot it. Months went by, he went to a gun show with me. Said he needed something smaller and lighter for carry. He picked up a PPK clone. We went out and shot a box of ammo through it. This was in the mid-1990s.

As I’m cleaning these things and detail stripping them I come to the realization he likely never really carried either, and most likely the only rounds fired through them were when we shot them together. Now, his shotgun and deer rifle on the other hand, saw plenty of use.

he had a couple other handguns that were handed down from his father. A Ruger Single Six, which I was allowed to purchase. It had a brick of ammo with only a partial box having been fired. Magnum cylinder still in it’s box never having been fired. Sales slip was in the brick of ammo. Dated 1969. So, it seems his immediate family were not big into handgun shooting. Story went that his Dad bought the pistol at a hardware store after being harassed on the road by some Hells Angels While they were towing their camping trailer. He fired those rounds in the desert while they were camping, and just wanted the pistol in case the bikers showed up. I guess he loaded up the magnum cylinder, but never fired any of the WMR rounds. Pretty sure the old revolver got cleaned after the trip and didn’t see the light of day again until I bought it.

Some folks just won’t ever get into it.
 

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Many people that were in my CC class would scare the hell out of me if they actually carried. There were no live firearms in the class, only red rubber Glocks.
Most of the students covered the class when handling the dummy gun aiming wherever they looked, oblivious of any safety rules at all.
I doubt most had never shot a hand gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
My nephew is one who shouldn't carry. His gun handling scared the hell out of me when we all went shooting a few years ago. Waving a loaded pistol around while he talked & I had to explain why I yelled, turned around & ran behind the truck hunched over. He's a newbie & his parents didn't pick up on it. I just said "A gun safety class would be a great idea" & left it at that.
 

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What is amazing is how often competence is blown off in carry discussions.
COMPETENCE whether it is in the regard to proper and safe firearm practice, or driving your car down the road, seems to be in short supply.
Some people raise stupid children. You know who you are.
 

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If you love her/them, then quit mentioning it every day. If you're carrying and gonna be with her, just don't say anything. If she notices, just play it off and change the subject.

My point is this, carrying shouldn't be a big deal. It should just be part of what you do. You probably carry your cell phone everywhere. I doubt you are constantly talking about the calls you made and the fact that you have it on you. This is just my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
 

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Maybe, I'm slow. To me shooting a handgun well is more than buying the gun an passing a carry class. You, like me, know people who have not fired their carry gun since getting a permit. One that I know has not shot a pistol period. Nobody gets competent reading gun rags and/or posting in a forum. If there were such, I would save me serious money. Now in this state the permit is no longer required. My opinion. Incidentally,my cell phone does not carry fourteen HP rounds fully loaded.🙂
 

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Two trips to the range: Wonder how many of these people have been killed or injured when attacker took their gun. Buying a gun does not endow me with the skills to handle same. You figure these feral types may know how to disarm a novice with an attitude?
 

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It's not even a matter of "some will never carry",,,
So much as it's a matter of "Some will never fight back even if menaced".

Our society as a whole has become "a nation of cowards",,,
Google that phrase and you should find an excellent paper on this concept.

Many (most?) people nowadays simply wouldn't defend themselves at all,,,
They will curl up in a ball and not fight back as a bad guy hurts them.

I have an acquaintance who examples this,,,
He bought a handgun for home defense many years ago,,,
He even took the required class to get his Oklahoma carry permit.

I don't think he ever carried the gun though.

One night he and his wife were watching TV,,,
The door was kicked in and a ******* Okie stormed in.

My friend wouldn't talk about what happened with me,,,
But his wife detailed his actions to me.

He grabbed her by the hand and ran to the bedroom,,,
That's where he kept the pistol.

Then he got the gun, sat on the floor behind the bed,,,
And did absolutely nothing.

Even when the ******* came into the bedroom,,,
And threatened them both with a crowbar,,,
My friend still did absolutely nothing.

Even though he had a high-capacity 9mm in his hand,,,
He told the ******* where they kept some cash.

Later on he tried to alibi his actions to me,,,
He said, "I was afraid he would hurt Joanne."

My reply was,,,
"How could he hurt her if you put 16 rounds in him?"

His response was,,,
"I couldn't take that chance."

He displayed abject cowardice in the face of danger.

And that good people is the problem,,,
It's not that some people won't carry a gun,,,
It's that some people will never use a gun even if they had one.

I did the Google thing for you,,,
"A Nation of Cowards"

The paper was written back in 1993,,,
But it's still as pertinent now as it was 28 years ago.

Aarond

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There are such a thing as a rational fear. My fear has to do with being shot by some dumb azz waving a gun around. That would be on a testosterone high for carrying a gun. That would be with zero experience with that or any gun. That is, with no firearm experience other that in front of a full length bedroom mirror. If we have cowards does having a gun make one a hero?
 

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Let me start by saying I do not look for trouble, in fact I concentrate on avoiding trouble.
The flip side of the coin is that there have been cases where avoidance was not an option.
One incident happened on my last night in Kunson, Korea in late May of 1983. I was serving in the USAF and was flying back to the world the next morning.
My friend Clarence Johnson and I took a cab from the base downtown to take a few pics and see a few landmarks, one of which was a monument on a bluff that was perhaps 800 feet above the city with only a narrow stairway to enter or exit.
We climbed the stairway with a couple of beers and my camera gear and by the time we got to the summit the nearly warm beer was extra good.
I was taking a few pictures when I started hearing lots of voices speaking Hangu on the long stairway. Turns out there were around 50 or 60 Korean college students (all male) coming up to the smallish level area with sheer drops of hundreds of feet on three sides. When they noticed that the two of us were the only ones there they started swearing and gesturing towards us. They were between us and the stairway so we were in a bit of a rough spot. My friend Clarence, who happened to be black asked me what to do. I told him to stay close and bulled out my chest and walked directly towards the most aggressive students in the center of the group. I thought about dying but kept on marching directly through them and towards the stairs. As we approached their tone became hushed and they parted like the Red Sea as we passed through.
On the way down the 800 or so stairs the adrenaline in my blood made me shaky but I felt like I could bench press a bus.
I was certainly afraid, but I was not a coward and it turned out to be a good lesson for me. Face your fear and act. Inaction will probably prove more costly than defending yourself and loved ones.
 
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