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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Another winner from Taurus? It's seems the Hated Taurus company strikes again. The early reviews are all positive for the sub compact GX4. High capacity and low profile. Also about $150.00 to $200.00 cheaper than the P365, Hellcat, and Glock offerings. Time will tell, but if it's as good as the G2, G3, and TX22 models it will sell fast. I own the G3 and two TX22's and I'll give the guns a personal thumbs up.
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I am getting tempted to buy a Taurus, but these days they want to charge enough to buy a pistol that I would not have to defend from haters or cheerlead the latest offering of.
I guess I will have to wait a while....
 

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I am getting tempted to buy a Taurus, but these days they want to charge enough to buy a pistol that I would not have to defend from haters or cheerlead the latest offering of.
I guess I will have to wait a while....
I don't hate Taurus' products or the company, they're inanimate objects and the company employs people. Taurus' products are what they are, I just wouldn't take the chance and buy one. Or recommend that others buy them. Same for Harbor Freight tools as I've often mentioned ad nauseam when the subject of Taurus' products comes up. I'm not looking to start arguments with people that love them either. If they're happy with them then that's great, that's all that counts. Just don't try and pass them off as being just as good as a Sig or Glock etc, they aren't. If they were they'd be putting them all out of business real fast. You do get what you pay for. If a company can manufacture and sell a product so cheap something has to give otherwise they'd be out of business real fast. It's "Economics 101."

If you're paying for cheap labor you can't expect the same quality as a company that pays more for skilled labor. The same goes for materials, equipment and machining costs. Those costs are passed on down to the consumers of those products. Not all steels are the same, not all polymers are the same, not all labor is the same, not all engineering is the same. Sorry folks but it is what it is.
 

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I don't hate Taurus' products or the company, they're inanimate objects and the company employs people. Taurus' products are what they are, I just wouldn't take the chance and buy one. Or recommend that others buy them. Same for Harbor Freight tools as I've often mentioned ad nauseam when the subject of Taurus' products comes up. I'm not looking to start arguments with people that love them either. If they're happy with them then that's great, that's all that counts. Just don't try and pass them off as being just as good as a Sig or Glock etc, they aren't. If they were they'd be putting them all out of business real fast. You do get what you pay for. If a company can manufacture and sell a product so cheap something has to give otherwise they'd be out of business real fast. It's "Economics 101."

If you're paying for cheap labor you can't expect the same quality as a company that pays more for skilled labor. The same goes for materials, equipment and machining costs. Those costs are passed on down to the consumers of those products. Not all steels are the same, not all polymers are the same, not all labor is the same, not all engineering is the same. Sorry folks but it is what it is.
I am trying to abstain from my contrary point of view about Taurus products on the forum.
On the other hand, when I am at the range, I am less restrained. When one of the guys has a Taurus problem, my response is "A man who pays for quality only has to cry once."
 
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I am trying to abstain from my contrary point of view about Taurus products on the forum.
On the other hand, when I am at the range, I am less restrained. When one of the guys has a Taurus problem, my response is "A man who pays for quality only has to cry once."
Yeah I do too. But I end up getting sucked into it. But I look at guns and tools the same way. Except with a gun you're buying a devise that may be called on to save your life. In which case do you really want to scrimp? I'd rather spend twice as much or more for a well made gun from a reputable manufacturer in the first place. Going out and buying a cheaply made gun and then putting hundreds or even thousand's of dollars worth of ammo through it doesn't make any sense to me? For anyone buying their first gun they're gonna' end up doing that. If not they'll never become proficient with it. If they aren't willing to become proficient with it, then maybe buying a gun is not such a great idea? By the time they blow off that many rounds a cheaply made gun will probably be at the end of its useful life. At the very least something's bound to break. The last thing you'd want is for it to break at the wrong time. Cheaply made guns are not really made for that type of use.

You won't find too many professional mechanics with their tool boxes packed with Harbor Freight tools and for good reason. Just as you won't find too many people who's lives may depend on their firearm on a daily basis with a cheaply made handgun on their belt. Of course there are plenty of people that love Taurus' products, they keep them in business. If that's what makes them happy then more power to them. But for God's sake don't try and convince people who don't know any better that their cheaply made handgun is just as good as a quality made handgun. They're doing a grave disservice to people that don't know any better. People who genuinely want to know from people who have experience as to what type and brand of gun to buy and their reasons for buying or not buying them.

Myself I tend not to put too much stock in gun reviews. Especially those that are in gun magazines and on some YOU Tube video's. Gun magazines do not want to turn off their advertisers and you never know if those YOU Tube video's are done by people who have a self interest in making them. So my advise to those that are looking to buy their first gun is to buy a gun made by a brand that professionals use. As with any mechanical devise you could have problems with those too. But your chances of that are a hell of a lot less.
 

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First of all I have never owned a Taurus. But one thing I do not buy into is all the Taurus Bashing. As a Range Officer for many years at my club, I have never seen the nonsense as posted by the bashers. Now I find it disgusting to see bashing going on by the same people all the time. Look at the new GX4. Nothing about it does not show quality build. Nothing.
I really like the way Taurus did the features of this gun. Very streamline, without bulky take down or slide stop. I like the way the did the grip and take down. Personally would not want a Sig without a safety, but the new Taurus appears to have a better EDC flat trigger and I like the double strike feature. Interchangeable Back-strap and I like the indexing pad. Come with either two 10 rd or 11 round mags both fit the gun the same without any difference in length. Bravo to them for this. I would love to shoot one. Seems like Taurus has done some homework. Bravo to them.
Looking forward to shooting and comparing. If the G4 is not as snappy as the Sig, it will be a winner! I am NOT a believer in a high capacity small Micro 9mm. But right now, after testing the Sig 365 with a group of 5 people shooting it at my club for 1,000 rds, I would most definately go with the Taurus. Every review I have seen so far as given it stellar reviews. And totally reliable right out of the box. Just that alone is better than the Sig which had HOST of Problems. Not to mention the grip to receiver distance and space on the Sig is ridiculous narrow. Especially given the fact that a off hand grip is a tremendous aid in shooting the gun. It looks like Sig is Over Rated and the Tauras a hell of a good deal at this point. And the cost is fantastic for a gun built like this.



All Steel construction,



 

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First of all I have never owned a Taurus. But one thing I do not buy into is all the Taurus Bashing. As a Range Officer for many years at my club, I have never seen the nonsense as posted by the bashers. Now I find it disgusting to see bashing going on by the same people all the time. Look at the new GX4. Nothing about it does not show quality build. Nothing.
I really like the way Taurus did the features of this gun. Very streamline, without bulky take down or slide stop. I like the way the did the grip and take down. Personally would not want a Sig without a safety, but the new Taurus appears to have a better EDC flat trigger and I like the double strike feature. Interchangeable Back-strap and I like the indexing pad. Come with either two 10 rd or 11 round mags both fit the gun the same without any difference in length. Bravo to them for this. I would love to shoot one. Seems like Taurus has done some homework. Bravo to them.
Looking forward to shooting and comparing. If the G4 is not as snappy as the Sig, it will be a winner! I am NOT a believer in a high capacity small Micro 9mm. But right now, after testing the Sig 365 with a group of 5 people shooting it at my club for 1,000 rds, I would most definately go with the Taurus. Every review I have seen so far as given it stellar reviews. And totally reliable right out of the box. Just that alone is better than the Sig which had HOST of Problems. Not to mention the grip to receiver distance and space on the Sig is ridiculous narrow. Especially given the fact that a off hand grip is a tremendous aid in shooting the gun. It looks like Sig is Over Rated and the Tauras a hell of a good deal at this point. And the cost is fantastic for a gun built like this.



All Steel construction,



I get it that you hate a Taurus basher as you call it.
I think it might be a reaction to the Taurus Fanboys posting Taurus commercials praising each new Taurus product as if they had stock in the company.
With the other higher end pistols there is not the same reaction at all. It is almost like they need to get affirmation for buying a gun that many people have learned to avoid. My favorite LGS won't sell a Taurus or take one on trade, that tells me a lot.
 
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LOL,You think Sig owners were not doing the same? Lol, fawning over the gun from the beginning like it was the best thing since slice bread. And my God, the amount of problems with the gun for about a year was incredible. And they were lined up in droves when the gun first came out without any real Knowledge at.all. There is one website that list all of the issues. And I have never heard of any LGS not selling Taurus. In fact for many they sell more of them than other guns. And tell us why the GX4 is not worthy? For sure the other G series have been very successful and very well received. Taurus has done a great job with them And who cares that one LGS does not want to carry a certain manufacturer. And will not take one on trade? Lol, not a smart Business man. Any gun is worth something Even a car dealer will trade in a piece of junk to make a deal.
I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS FIGHT. I do not even go for the high round count nonsense. But I do belong to a club that test different new guns. We usually have at least 5 experienced shooters that will contribute enough rounds of mixed ammo to test a gun.(1,000 rds) We plan to do this soon. We will at least be opened minded. Taurus is fast changing in a new direction and the Bashers hate this. The idea that a Quality gun can be bought for less than the money they forked out is quite UN-nerving to them and it shows. So far the Taurus GX4 is going out the gate strong. And that is going to cause a whole lot of people to be mighty unhappy. Which IMO is ridiculous. The gun snobs might be having a really bad year if the GX4 is successful. What a tragedy that would be.By the way, Taurus even manufactured this gun with 25% fewer parts. The gun from every account appears to be a solid well built performer. Maybe you should also test one and then make a judgement.

You get what you pay for is not always true by any means. Many times you get a gun or other item that exceeds all expectations for a whole lot less. And in my book, there is nothing wrong with that.I am not here to bash the Sig. It is a fine quality gun. Nor the Hellcat or any other gun. I only seek the truth. And I am hoping the best for the GX4. If it is successful it will be a win for all gun enthusiast. Ya gotta love competition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
When a person takes a strong stance about something it's human nature to defend their point of view no matter what. Cars, Motorcycles, Guns, whatever. Sometimes it get's absurd. "I would rather be dead than own a Taurus." Wow! Posted right here I believe. I try to keep an open mind about things and not condemn something I have no personal experience with. It's my belief that Taurus has made a concentrated effort to produce a good, reliable firearm at lower cost than others in the market. The G2 Series pistols are reliable, accurate pistols. I don't own one but I've fired a few of them and couldn't find a down side except the trigger which took some getting used to. I bought a G3 so I could try one and see for myself what they were about. It's been six months now and quite a few rounds through it and I can't say anything bad about it. It's not replacing my CZ's, but I would have no issue carrying it. The TX22 Series took the .22 handgun market by storm. I have two and have shot the heck out of both of them. When a handgun outsells a major player's contemporary pistol (G44) by three to one there's a reason for that. My point here is not worship of Taurus, but evaluating each gun by it's merits not by a pre-conceived opinion of the maker.
 
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I get it that you hate a Taurus basher as you call it.
I think it might be a reaction to the Taurus Fanboys posting Taurus commercials praising each new Taurus product as if they had stock in the company.
With the other higher end pistols there is not the same reaction at all. It is almost like they need to get affirmation for buying a gun that many people have learned to avoid. My favorite LGS won't sell a Taurus or take one on trade, that tells me a lot.
What tells me a lot is that you don't see too many professionals using them. When it comes to a product that my life may depend on that's what I'm going to go with.
 

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All Steel construction,




[/QUOTE]
Although I've never been a range officer. I've spent my life working on mechanical devises, both cars and guns. I've own a wide variety of guns and tools. I've done 4 complete ground up auto restorations. In the beginning I've had tools, parts and fasteners break. I've learned my lesson and stay away from cheaply made products even though they may feel and look identical to their more expensive counterparts. If I'm going to be using something over and over again the last thing I'd want is for it to break when I least expect it. Especially if my life is on the line.

I've spent God only knows how many hours with machinists and welders as it all goes with the territory. NOT ALL STEELS ARE THE SAME. There are different methods of processing it. Cheaper steels require less processing and are weaker. You wouldn't believe how many different grades steel that there are. There are over 150 different grades of stainless steel alone. Just because something is made of steel doesn't necessarily mean that it will hold up. In order to manufacture a product at a considerably lower price something has got to give. I doubt very much that Taurus has come up with some kind of magic formula to avoid that. Otherwise all of the other manufacturers would be rushing out to copy it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·


All Steel construction,



Although I've never been a range officer. I've spent my life working on mechanical devises, both cars and guns. I've own a wide variety of guns and tools. I've done 4 complete ground up auto restorations. In the beginning I've had tools, parts and fasteners break. I've learned my lesson and stay away from cheaply made products even though they may feel and look identical to their more expensive counterparts. If I'm going to be using something over and over again the last thing I'd want is for it to break when I least expect it. Especially if my life is on the line.

I've spent God only knows how many hours with machinists and welders as it all goes with the territory. NOT ALL STEELS ARE THE SAME. There are different methods of processing it. Cheaper steels require less processing and are weaker. You wouldn't believe how many different grades steel that there are. There are over 150 different grades of stainless steel alone. Just because something is made of steel doesn't necessarily mean that it will hold up. In order to manufacture a product at a considerably lower price something has got to give. I doubt very much that Taurus has come up with some kind of magic formula to avoid that. Otherwise all of the other manufacturers would be rushing out to copy it.
[/QUOTE]
How does the steel in a Taurus GX4 differ from the steel in a CZ P-01 or a Colt 1911 Series 70? Not being a smart azz, would like to know.
 

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You do not see Professionals using a lot of guns. Not sure that means much. At least not to me. And who knows what the future holds.
Well let me put it to you this way. Someone in law enforcement or the military stands a much better chance than the average civilian of having to use a firearm in defense of their lives. There's got to be a reason why they are not equipping themselves with Taurus products? I also do not know of too many law enforcement officers that don't practice on a regular basis. Maybe there are but they'd be crazy not to. Not only for their own safety but for the safety of others around them.
 

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Will Taurus build a product in the Furture to be offered for Bid. I know many cops. And many of them do not even like to shoot, and many are downright lousy. Many just carry what the department issues. But this is NOT about past Taurus, This is about new products that are now coming out by them. I know some folks want to look for every way in the world to not accept the fact that the New Products will be quality, but you are going to have to come up with a lot more than what a cop or other professional carries. The GX4 is not a duty gun. Never said it was. What other brands do cops not carry? There are many quality guns out there and NO they do not carry all of them. Many manufacturers do not even want to get in the GOV bid game. I do not blame them.I just recently talked to one cop. He says he goes once a month. And complained about buying his own ammo. I use to go once a week. I own great reliable guns that cops do not carry. Why in the world would I care what they carry? I don't,
 

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Although I've never been a range officer. I've spent my life working on mechanical devises, both cars and guns. I've own a wide variety of guns and tools. I've done 4 complete ground up auto restorations. In the beginning I've had tools, parts and fasteners break. I've learned my lesson and stay away from cheaply made products even though they may feel and look identical to their more expensive counterparts. If I'm going to be using something over and over again the last thing I'd want is for it to break when I least expect it. Especially if my life is on the line.

I've spent God only knows how many hours with machinists and welders as it all goes with the territory. NOT ALL STEELS ARE THE SAME. There are different methods of processing it. Cheaper steels require less processing and are weaker. You wouldn't believe how many different grades steel that there are. There are over 150 different grades of stainless steel alone. Just because something is made of steel doesn't necessarily mean that it will hold up. In order to manufacture a product at a considerably lower price something has got to give. I doubt very much that Taurus has come up with some kind of magic formula to avoid that. Otherwise all of the other manufacturers would be rushing out to copy it.
How does the steel in a Taurus GX4 differ from the steel in a CZ P-01 or a Colt 1911 Series 70? Not being a smart azz, would like to know.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know what grade of steel Taurus, Colt, CZ, HK, Sig, Walther, Beretta or any other manufacturer uses? Only they have the answer to that, and it may be a closely guarded secret? Although German made steel has had a very good reputation. But it's not so much the steel itself it's how it's processed. Is it poured into a mold and then machined or is it hammer forged? Molded or cast steel is obviously easier to machine than hammer forged. Many times parts are made out of a solid block of hammer forged steel and take longer to machine. By the time that it's done 80% could have been machined away. That amount of waste adds to the cost of the part. They are a lot stronger than a cast part or a MIM (Metal Injection Molding) part. Carbon content also determines both the strength and cost of steel.

But my whole point in all of this and I'll repeat it again in order to manufacture a cheaper product something has to give. Having a gun fail at the worst possible time is not a chance that I am willing to take. I'm not trying to intentionally bash Taurus products, or those who buy them for what ever reasons they have. Taurus products are what they are. Let the buyer beware.
 

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Will Taurus build a product in the Furture to be offered for Bid. I know many cops. And many of them do not even like to shoot, and many are downright lousy. Many just carry what the department issues. But this is NOT about past Taurus, This is about new products that are now coming out by them. I know some folks want to look for every way in the world to not accept the fact that the New Products will be quality, but you are going to have to come up with a lot more than what a cop or other professional carries. The GX4 is not a duty gun. Never said it was. What other brands do cops not carry? There are many quality guns out there and NO they do not carry all of them. Many manufacturers do not even want to get in the GOV bid game. I do not blame them.I just recently talked to one cop. He says he goes once a month. And complained about buying his own ammo. I use to go once a week. I own great reliable guns that cops do not carry. Why in the world would I care what they carry? I don't,
Oh forget it I'm done arguing, you're now just making excuses. You've missed my point entirely.
 

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Thank you.Taurus entered into a very competitive market and each month see's more and more positive results of the Taurus. I doubt very seriously that they went into all of this to competitive market just put in a cheap steel that falls apart. We are seeing new Taurus guns now with thousands of rounds of ammo down range and hardly falling apart, on the contrary. They are lasting and they have proven to be extremely reliable. Absoultely nothing has shown otherwise. Where Taurus purchases their steel or any other could be the same place.
But a lower cost does NOT in any way mean a lessor quality gun or vice versa.
Some manufactures will make a dealer sign a contract that forbids going to a lower price. And the sucker that paid more did so with no true benefits. Truth be told, many gun manufactures could very well sell for less.
A lot of equations go into a price of gun other than steel. Advertising is a huge expense. So is the other company paying out more for advertising, or any other expenses not related to just steel? You can bet they are. And then there is this thing called Perceived value. Will people pay more? Again you darn right they will.

Example: I visited the Trane factory in Texas. Walked the entire assembly line from start to finish. Now this was when American Standard bought them out. Now the unit would go down the assembly line, and when it got to the very end, the units would go into two different directions. One would go left and get a Trane logo Grill and the other would go right and get a American Standard grill. Virtually the same exact product. Yet the Trane product would list for a minimum of $500 more!
For some people, no matter how much you tried to sell them the lower price and explain they were the same exact thing, they would pay the additional price.

Taurus had come out with a Product that is proving it can run with guns costing more. And this hurts the pride of many. That is just life. I bought the GX4 not because of the Price, I bought it for the quality, the way it shoots, the awesome grip that fits my hand so well. The fact that it already has proven to be ultra reliable is a big bonus.
Taurus has taken a giant leap into this fierce competive market and and coming out on top and a whole lot of people do not like this. And something tell me, The New Taurus is just beginning.

 
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