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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello forum,

When any one of you target practice and are drawing your weapon….by the time you lock your target…is your trigger at that sweet spot to where you’re a millimeter away from your pistol going off v. fully pulling the trigger?

When I have been shooting:

1. bring gun from chest
2. Bend at the waist
3. Weak eye closed
4. Arms extending
5. Finger in trigger
6. Pulling trigger to that sweetspot
7. Locked on target
8. Pull trigger…..

Was just curious if yous guys go through the same motion? All this happens in a second or 2.

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen
 

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Depends on what I’m practicing for. If I’m practicing for competition then what you describe is not far off. If practicing defensive drills I’m pulling through the “Wall”. I want an even pull all the way to hammer release. For defensive shooting, both eyes open is better.

Defensive sequence is more:

Establish strong hand grip on pistol
draw to chest while establishing slight forward lean
meet non-dominant hand at chest. (Complete two hand grip)
Push out toward target while finding front sight and placing on center mass of target
begin trigger press when front sight is on target and while pushing forward.
continue pushing toward target and break the shot.

There are time vs precision trade offs in these two sequences.
if one is taking the time to try to stack rounds on top of each other in competition they may be rewarded with extra points, but suffer minor time penalty.

If one is taking time to stack rounds on top of each other, they may be rewarded with a slightly better critical hit which may mean fewer MINUTES for an attacker to bleed out, but may be penalized with the attacker still having some fight left. Getting more hits, in a dinner plate sized area instead of trying to keep them in a tea cup sized area may take the fight out faster by creating more leaks and increasing probability of central nervous system hits.
 

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You should not be closing your weak eye once you get past the initial stages of learning. In a true self defense situation, you need both eyes open to identify and watch your threat, and look for additional threats.

I really think that is a bad habit to develop now in the beginning. You probably should not be doing that at all right now.

You will also be bringing gun from the holster. Granted, the range won't let you practice that, but you can practice that at home through dry fire practice.

Your instructor is teaching you as a competition shooter as well. Maybe not the way to go unless you want to learn to be a competition shooter. You have mentioned a few things she is teaching you in your classes that I personally don't think is the way to go in the very, very beginning. But others here may hold another opinion....
 

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I have found that with dry fire training with a laser cartridge I can point shoot much better. If you are unfamiliar Point shooting refers to putting your eyes on the Target and then letting your brain take your hands and your pistol to point.
I am able to draw and fire my laser cartridge on a 2x2 Target at 28 ft and hit it very reliably without ever looking at the sights.
That training brings a lot of speed to your defensive shooting.
Your mileage May vary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You should not be closing your weak eye once you get past the initial stages of learning. In a true self defense situation, you need both eyes open to identify and watch your threat, and look for additional threats.

I really think that is a bad habit to develop now in the beginning. You probably should not be doing that at all right now.

You will also be bringing gun from the holster. Granted, the range won't let you practice that, but you can practice that at home through dry fire practice.

Your instructor is teaching you as a competition shooter as well. Maybe not the way to go unless you want to learn to be a competition shooter. You have mentioned a few things she is teaching you in your classes that I personally don't think is the way to go in the very, very beginning. But others here may hold another opinion....
That makes sense - I am at the merci of the forum here. The second picture I posted as you know was for the self defense practice…both eyes open. She told me that we will be doing more of that during our lessons moving forward.

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen
 

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That makes sense - I am at the merci of the forum here. The second picture I posted as you know was for the self defense practice…both eyes open. She told me that we will be doing more of that during our lessons moving forward.

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen
I will admit that when trying to shoot tight groups at the range, I sometimes close 1 eye. But you would NEVER want to do that in a self defense scenario.

And, from people who have used their guns in real life scenarios - they say they don't even see their sights.

Over time, you need to develop some point shooting skills. Now, not everyone can shoot from the hip like Taran Butler, and knock down 8 steel targets in 2 seconds or less. But, start at 3 yards, then 5 and maybe out to 7. After you get the basics down and can shoot some decent groups - if you want to learn some self defense shooting - practice some point shooting.

You can point a finger at the target, right? You can stand there and point your 1st finger out at someone 5 yards away... And, your finger will always point straight at the target. You will never miss the target with the direction your finger is pointing.... Work on translating that to your gun. Remember - you are usually keeping your trigger finger off the trigger, and pointing down the gun (on the side of the gun) anyway.

So, you can still point your finger at the target while it's on the side of the gun, right? You can point your finger at a realistic sized target and never miss with where that finger is pointing... Right?

It's the same concept. Within the distance of a room, you (eventually) should be able to point a gun and hit your target without ever using the sights....

Now, you aren't anywhere near where you need to worry about that right now. You are just beginning. But, that's the goal.

You can't do that with 1 eye closed. And in real life, you will often be damn lucky to even have time to draw your gun.
 

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Hello forum,

Was just curious if yous guys go through the same motion? All this happens in a second or 2.

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen
Shipwreck touched on it. If you are learning from scratch, then continue as you are. Fundamentals are king.
Just keep in mind that a second or two is a lifetime or two in a SD situation.
I don' t normally search for "the wall", I just depress. Right or wrong, it works, and action can have some to do with it too.
We had a club what ever he was, he ran the range, that was one of the most excellent instructors out there for beginners. He could have you ringing targets very quickly, and handling safely. He thought a lot more of himself than some of us did, but at least he could come through on a lot of it.
One of my favorite days, I was hammering hard and heavy, and in the final stages of proving a carry worthy pistol. Shooting fast and dirty. Turned around and three very judgmental men sitting in the bleachers. I cleaned up, painted the steel, gathered my 1/2 silhouette target and was leaving when one of them popped off about how many gun fights I planned on surviving with that kind of shooting. Held the half silhouette to him and told him all of them. The silence was deafening. I haven't seen two of them again, but the third was the guy above.
Sadly, we lost him earlier this year to heart problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you everyone, this is fantastic advice. I think the plan forward will be for me to continue getting intimately involved with understanding my firearm and how to effectively operate it over time.

If I can be honest (not lose my man card) I am still a little uneasy around my fire arm.

One scenario I froze on (and not afraid to admit this)…was I had the slide locked open…then the instructor loaded the magazine. So with the magazine in the gun and the slide open I could see the bullet and I froze…thinking what do I do here…so if I unlock the slide then rack the slide the gun would be loaded…and for some reason that made me freeze in that situation.

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen
 

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Another echo.

Fundamentals are king when starting out.

At some point when the basics become automatic There comes a time to separate types of shooting, (marksmanship, competition, recreation, and combat shooting). Practicing in context to a type of shooting helps. There are definite areas of overlap in skill sets learned in each. But concentration will shift in priority to certain shooting skill sets over others given the context of the type of shooting one is practicing. The “standards“ of speed and precision shift in priority, but they are not abandoned in any context.
 

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Thank you everyone, this is fantastic advice. I think the plan forward will be for me to continue getting intimately involved with understanding my firearm and how to effectively operate it over time.

If I can be honest (not lose my man card) I am still a little uneasy around my fire arm.

One scenario I froze on (and not afraid to admit this)…was I had the slide locked open…then the instructor loaded the magazine. So with the magazine in the gun and the slide open I could see the bullet and I froze…thinking what do I do here…so if I unlock the slide then rack the slide the gun would be loaded…and for some reason that made me freeze in that situation.

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen
when starting out and not having any experience you are going to run into scenarios that are unfamiliar and uncomfortable. That is not unexpected.

When learning we have to be honest with ourselves if we are going to identify areas of weakness, ignorance or unfamiliarity, so we can learn and move past them. Otherwise forward progress stops.
 

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Its not tactically a good idea... But I will admit that when I got my permit in 1996, I carried with an unloaded chamber for the first few months. Once I got more comfortable carrying a gun, then I started keeping a round in the chamber.

No, the gun won't go off on its own. But yes, it is a huge responsibility to carry a gun. And, if that is something you need to do to get comfortable with the weapon, then doing so for a little while is not necessarily a bad thing.
 

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Understanding the mechanics of your firearm becomes fundamentally important.

once a round is in the chamber and the hammer is back Millimeters and a few pounds of pressure are going to release that round unless one chooses to make the weapon safe.

Understanding that using the slide release or simply pulling the slide to the rear and releasing it at the end of a mag change accomplish the same thing in making the pistol ready to resume firing, is something one needs to learn but it isn’t necessarily something one thinks about in detail until they face it for the first time.
 

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When I bought my first pistol I picked the Beretta 92FS. Part of my reasoning as a new shooter was the overlapping and somewhat redundant safeties. Long heavy first pull, a manual safety that rotates part of the firing pin channel out of the way, a firing pin block that doesn’t allow the pin to move forward until the trigger is all the way t9 the rear. It’s a lot of safeties in one pistol. When I did carry it I carried it with the safety engaged.

30 years later I‘m pretty comfortable using a Double action handgun with a decocker and no “active safety lever” to have to disengage under stress.
 

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Thank you everyone, this is fantastic advice. I think the plan forward will be for me to continue getting intimately involved with understanding my firearm and how to effectively operate it over time.

If I can be honest (not lose my man card) I am still a little uneasy around my fire arm.

One scenario I froze on (and not afraid to admit this)…was I had the slide locked open…then the instructor loaded the magazine. So with the magazine in the gun and the slide open I could see the bullet and I froze…thinking what do I do here…so if I unlock the slide then rack the slide the gun would be loaded…and for some reason that made me freeze in that situation.

The Yankee

Kindly,
Stephen
Why did someone else put a magazine in YOUR gun? Seems a bit odd, but what ever.
Never lose a healthy respect for it, that is when things get sketchy.
We have all been new, and all had situations to overcome, so no need in doubting yourself. In fact, that is pretty detrimental.
Enjoy and learn all you can.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Why did someone else put a magazine in YOUR gun? Seems a bit odd, but what ever.
Never lose a healthy respect for it, that is when things get sketchy.
We have all been new, and all had situations to overcome, so no need in doubting yourself. In fact, that is pretty detrimental.
Enjoy and learn all you can.
You’re right…in fact my instructor did that…and she threw my off my rhythm/routine. She even loaded her own mag with my rounds and gave it back to me…then she was like…whoops…that is my mag sorry. I told her I noticed that but didn’t want to say anything.

Kindly,
Stephen
 

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You’re right…in fact my instructor did that…and she threw my off my rhythm/routine. She even loaded her own mag with my rounds and gave it back to me…then she was like…whoops…that is my mag sorry. I told her I noticed that but didn’t want to say anything.

Kindly,
Stephen
Please stop. This keeps getting worse. An "instructor" should be instructing, and not on the firing line when live. For sure should be paying better attention to things than that.
Or it may just be me. Things like that are why I'm so skeptical of most "experts".
 

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The only time when I had someone else load a mag for me while under instruction was for a “failure to fire” practice. They would put a dummy round in the magazine at random to do a couple of things. 1) Assess your ability to recognize the problem and clear it. 2) Assess flinch and recoil anticipation. If you nose-dived the pistol when it didn’t fire they knew you were anticipating recoil.
 
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