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  1. #1
    Tracker's Avatar
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    Question Walther PPS 9MM Pistol

    OK I have been trying to decide witch pistol to get for my cc pistol. I have 4 that I am looking at, all are sub compact. I like the glock 26 the MP 9 XD9 and today I held the Walther PPS 9MM Pistol I went in to narrow my choices and ended up adding another one to the list. So can anyone tell me about the walther??

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  3. #2
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    Did you try to do a search on this site? I seem to remember people saying that there's a few issues with the PPS, but I don't know for sure. It's definitely a nice looking pistol, but that would have nothing to do with my decision in a CC pistol. Good luck with the search!

    -Jeff-

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    Did you try to do a search on this site? I seem to remember people saying that there's a few issues with the PPS, but I don't know for sure. It's definitely a nice looking pistol, but that would have nothing to do with my decision in a CC pistol. Good luck with the search!

    -Jeff-
    Thanks Beefy you were right they are haveing trouble so that narrows my choices alittle

  5. #4
    submoa is offline Member
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    glock 26 - unsupported chamber cause of case rupture explosions = gun destroyed & possible injury to shooter
    MP 9 - mag safety combined with unexpected mag drops = gun unusable
    PPS - Quiksafe safety relies on backstrap held by plastic claw vulnerable to breakage from aggressive reloading = gun unusable
    XD9 - fully supported chamber, 16rd mag reload included

    This is really an inappropriate comparision since PPS is single stack and the others are double. Properly, PPS should be compared against Kahr PM9 and Kel-Tec PF9,

  6. #5
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    You should check out the Walther P99 compact in 9 mm. It has a 10 round capacity, 100% reliability, and is just a little bigger than the PPS. You can also fit a 15 round clip onto it as well. It makes the competition look like crap. It is not the most common pistol to find, especially in 9 mm, but it is the best of its class and a great carry gun.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by madison7 View Post
    You should check out the Walther P99 compact in 9 mm. It has a 10 round capacity, 100% reliability, and is just a little bigger than the PPS. You can also fit a 15 round clip onto it as well. It makes the competition look like crap. It is not the most common pistol to find, especially in 9 mm, but it is the best of its class and a great carry gun.
    Just out of curiosity...What class would that be???

    -Jeff-

  8. #7
    PX
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    Quote Originally Posted by madison7 View Post
    You should check out the Walther P99 compact in 9 mm. It has a 10 round capacity, 100% reliability, and is just a little bigger than the PPS. You can also fit a 15 round clip onto it as well. It makes the competition look like crap. It is not the most common pistol to find, especially in 9 mm, but it is the best of its class and a great carry gun.


    FWIW:

    Walther P99c/AS has the better trigger/striker (for me). Larger capacity, but thicker grip because of the double stack.

    Walther PPS has bigger/better sights, Glocklike trigger, THIN, lighter, easier to cc.

    My P99c/AS was slightly more accurate than my PPS, but the thiness and light weight of the PPS make it the better choice, for me, for cc..

    I have owned a Glock 26 in the past, (two actually), and IMO the Walther P99c/AS is the Glock 26 with all deficiencies corrected.. (better trigger/striker, MUCH better grip ergonomics, more accurate, overall a much better choice in my experience..)

    I'm not "anti-glock", I just prefer the Walther having owned examples of both pistols.

    Just personal opinion/YMMV..

    Best Wishes,

    Jesse

  9. #8
    Old Padawan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    glock 26 - unsupported chamber cause of case rupture explosions = gun destroyed & possible injury to shooter
    here we go again. Absolutely undocumentable. Your opinion and not a fact.
    And this time you are refering to a 9mm.
    Last edited by Old Padawan; 07-22-2008 at 11:09 AM.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

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    The Glock and XD have cheaper mags (about ½ as much) than Walther.
    The Glock and XD have more accessories (read holsters) than the Walther or M&P.

    All 4 are high quality guns and will go BANG when you pull the trigger. Try to shoot them and choose the one that feels the best in your hand.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

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    Here is a link to a range report I did on mine.

    http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=300134

    I really like mine. I resides in my fanny pack that I carry to the gym.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Padawan View Post
    here we go again. Absolutely undocumentable. Your opinion and not a fact.
    And this time you are refering to a 9mm.

    What? I thought that everybody knew that all glocks blow up and no one has ever had a single problem with an XD.




  13. #12
    submoa is offline Member
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    Anyone having either a Model 26 or Model 27 with a serial number utilizing the following alpha-prefix: DGD, DGV, DHS, DHT, DKV, DKW or DKX, your guide rod is defective. According to Glock, the rods were not tempered correctly.

    Effective 20 February 2003 all Glock Model 26 pistols in the E serial range of the current "non-recall" have been banned from carry by NYPD.

    Glock unsupported chamber:



    Quote Originally Posted by Old Padawan View Post
    And this time you are refering to a 9mm
    At the S&W IDPA Winter Championship 28 February, 2004, a Glock Model 34 (9mm!) split its barrel at the bottom all the way through the breech. The kB! occurred in front of many witnesses. The shooter was using factory PMC practice ammo.

    Picture of broken "indestructible" Glock frame (G17) from Lyon County Sheriff's Office, Nevada.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zaakir*Abdullah View Post
    My only problem with Glocks are the fanboys. The jerks who think Glocks are the infallible holy grail of handguns.
    All handguns are compromises. Glocks are certainly no better than any modern handgun on the market today. And contrary to the claims of Glock fanboys, there are indeed reasons why.

  14. #13
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    Tracker, check out the deal on the Handguntrader section here on this forum that is available on an XD9 -sc

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    Anyone having either a Model 26 or Model 27 with a serial number utilizing the following alpha-prefix: DGD, DGV, DHS, DHT, DKV, DKW or DKX, your guide rod is defective. According to Glock, the rods were not tempered correctly.

    Effective 20 February 2003 all Glock Model 26 pistols in the E serial range of the current "non-recall" have been banned from carry by NYPD.

    Glock unsupported chamber:





    At the S&W IDPA Winter Championship 28 February, 2004, a Glock Model 34 (9mm!) split its barrel at the bottom all the way through the breech. The kB! occurred in front of many witnesses. The shooter was using factory PMC practice ammo.

    Picture of broken "indestructible" Glock frame (G17) from Lyon County Sheriff's Office, Nevada.





    All handguns are compromises. Glocks are certainly no better than any modern handgun on the market today. And contrary to the claims of Glock fanboys, there are indeed reasons why.

    It should be noted that I am not a Glockophile. My firearm of preference is a 1911. I grudgingly carry a Glock because it works. Having said that.

    Nice photo. I wonder how long it would take to find a picture of a Sig that has been blown? How about an HK? Do you suppose we could find a Walther that has had a dramatic failure? Shall I go on?

    I had a friend blow up a Smith model 4006. It was store bought ammo. He had fired the gun on multiple occasions’ prior. The gun had handled hundreds of rounds prior to this dramatic failure. Using your logic and assumptions, does that mean that people should not buy Smith 40 cal autos?

    No one has seriously claimed they are indestructible. Any gun can break.

    You previously commented that the unsupported chamber of a 1911 wasn’t unsafe due to the lower pressures generated, had you considered the unsupported chamber of the 1903 Springfield firing a 30-06 cartridge. Thousands of them carried in WW1 and WW2.

    The Glock .40 cal is a safe, dependable high quality firearm. Your photo proves nothing. Big deal it blew up. You have obviously done a lot of research on the subject yet you still fail to show ANY documentation. The reason that you are unable to do so is because it doesn’t exist. It is an opinion only. Your opinion in this is no better than a Chevy truck fan bashing a Ford. It is baseless emotional claptrap

    You are wrong.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

  16. #15
    hideit's Avatar
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    that is a tough choice.
    i have a glock26 and love it
    but if i didn't own it i would look seriously at the 3" 9mm XD, the Kahr PM9, and the keltec PF9.

    First- seems like you have a double stack / single stack question to answer
    then
    look into the options

  17. #16
    niadhf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Padawan View Post
    It is baseless emotional claptrap


    Word usage thief

  18. #17
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    I don't mean to go off the subject of the thread.. But what is up with the guys who love to show blown up glock and comment on how unsafe they are I agree with Old Padawan I own a glock 17 and I love it. But it just grates my nerves with these guys that feel the need to keep refering to how glocks blow up and etc. Any gun can fail even $3000 1911s so just get over it and move on.

    Agian sorry for my rant....

  19. #18
    submoa is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Padawan View Post
    You have obviously done a lot of research on the subject yet you still fail to show ANY documentation. The reason that you are unable to do so is because it doesn’t exist. It is an opinion only. Your opinion in this is no better than a Chevy truck fan bashing a Ford. It is baseless emotional claptrap

    You are wrong.
    Hmm... pictures, quotes from law enforcement users and Glock themselves, publicly witnessed failures, references to lawsuits vs what amounts to Nyahh, Nyahh, Nyahh from outraged fanboys.

    Kudos to your unswerving argumentative style. Clearly, nothing will overcome your impenetrable wall of denial.

    However, for members trying to decide on a purchase worth several hundred dollars the information I present is different from the endorsement of legions of fanboys.

    Glocks are not the worst handguns and they are not the perfect indestructible handguns claimed by the fanboys. If at the end of the day, the information I present causes a potential purchaser to try and shoot different handguns before settling in on a purchase, that should be ok for any reasonable person.

  20. #19
    Old Padawan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    Hmm... pictures, quotes from law enforcement users and Glock themselves, publicly witnessed failures, references to lawsuits vs what amounts to Nyahh, Nyahh, Nyahh from outraged fanboys.
    It amuses me greatly how you will just ignore parts of a post and reply to others.
    You completely skipped my question regarding pictures of other gun manufacturer catastrophic failures. You provide a photo of a blown Glock and ignore the question regarding other photos. You ignore my story of the Smith 4006 and yet reference other “publicly witnessed failure”. And you have no comment regarding the unsuported chamber of a 30-06 not exploding.
    By your “documentation” no gun is safe.
    Did I miss something? You state “references to lawsuits” to support your argument, yet you did not reference a lawsuit.

    Kudos to your unswerving argumentative style. Clearly, nothing will overcome your impenetrable wall of denial.
    My unswerving argumentative style is pretty basic. I just ask that you “show me”. Facts will completely overcome my “impenetrable wall of denial” yet you have none. You consistently offer your opinion as fact and then engage in the time honored art of dodging commonly employed by those unwilling to admit they are wrong.

    However, for members trying to decide on a purchase worth several hundred dollars the information I present is different from the endorsement of legions of fanboys.
    You don’t present information you present opinion. Information can be documented opinions don’t need to be.
    I am a fanboy, a fanboy of logic and debate. I have gotten much debate from this thread, but no logic to speak of…

    Glocks are not the worst handguns and they are not the perfect indestructible handguns claimed by the fanboys. If at the end of the day, the information I present causes a potential purchaser to try and shoot different handguns before settling in on a purchase, that should be ok for any reasonable person.
    So, you did all of this research for Glock failure. You are of the opinion that it is a common enough occurrence to make the gun unsafe. You are unable to find any documentation other than 2 photos and a few stories. This satisfies you for documentation? What percentage of guns are you saying are going KA-Boom? What percentage of a product must malfunction to qualify it as “unsafe”?

    PER NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) 2008 edition of small arms production, the country Austria exported the following HANDGUNS.
    1998 170,240
    1999 210,966
    2000 245,869
    2001 234,330
    2002 257,255
    2003 245,949
    2004 245,431
    2005 288,132
    2006 327,845
    2007 347,188
    Total 2,573,205

    Granted these are the numbers for Austria and not Glock. Subtract whatever percentage you feel to be reasonable for other handgun manufactures such as Steyer. Surely you can admit that a major percentage (upwards of half) of these would be Glock. Don’t bother trying to figure out how many were actually produced in Smyrna GA in the same time frame (26,500 in 2006 per BATFE) as they didn’t start producing the frames until 2005.

    Are we talking about KA-Boom or guide rods? How does NY police not allowing certain G26 and G27 models produced within a set amount of time not be used due to guide rod failure support or document your argument? It is also odd that they have tempered guide rods, as the factory Glock guide rod is made of plastic.


    Do you actually understand the terms “reference”, and “documentation” as I have applied them in this post?
    Last edited by Old Padawan; 08-05-2008 at 10:46 AM.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

  21. #20
    submoa is offline Member
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    The original poster inquired about G26:

    Anyone having either a Model 26 or Model 27 with a serial number utilizing the following alpha-prefix: DGD, DGV, DHS, DHT, DKV, DKW or DKX, your guide rod is defective. According to Glock, the rods were not tempered correctly. If you have one of these guns, call 1 (888) 569-6830 to get a replacement rod. This number was been set up specifically for the replacement of the rods.

    2 lawsuits are currently pending in Federal District Court against Glock arising from the Portland Police Bureau kB! incidents:

    3:2006cv00287 City of Portland v. Glock, Inc. et al
    3:2006cv00145 Pirv v. Glock, Inc. et al

    These suits were filed after HP White had published their report exonerating Glock in the incidents and blaming the kB!s on overpressure cartridges. Both Pirv (the injured officer) and PPB have evidence contrary to HP White to reassert Glock to be at fault.

    Glocks are not bad handguns. But they are not the perfect handguns that the legions of fanboys make them out to be. Be a knowledgeable consumer, don't take fanboy endorsements at face value, compare products and choose the one that makes the most sense for you.

    If in the end you choose a Glock. Great.

    In the end this whole bickering amounts to using an Internet Search Engine (Google, Yahoo, etc.) vs. the denial of someone who has called himself the Pole Smoking Ass Pirate of Arizona (PSAPAZ in sig line).

  22. #21
    Old Padawan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    The original poster inquired about G26:

    Anyone having either a Model 26 or Model 27 with a serial number utilizing the following alpha-prefix: DGD, DGV, DHS, DHT, DKV, DKW or DKX, your guide rod is defective. According to Glock, the rods were not tempered correctly. If you have one of these guns, call 1 (888) 569-6830 to get a replacement rod. This number was been set up specifically for the replacement of the rods.

    2 lawsuits are currently pending in Federal District Court against Glock arising from the Portland Police Bureau kB! incidents:

    3:2006cv00287 City of Portland v. Glock, Inc. et al
    3:2006cv00145 Pirv v. Glock, Inc. et al

    These suits were filed after HP White had published their report exonerating Glock in the incidents and blaming the kB!s on overpressure cartridges. Both Pirv (the injured officer) and PPB have evidence contrary to HP White to reassert Glock to be at fault.

    Glocks are not bad handguns. But they are not the perfect handguns that the legions of fanboys make them out to be. Be a knowledgeable consumer, don't take fanboy endorsements at face value, compare products and choose the one that makes the most sense for you.

    If in the end you choose a Glock. Great.

    In the end this whole bickering amounts to using an Internet Search Engine (Google, Yahoo, etc.) vs. the denial of someone who has called himself the Pole Smoking Ass Pirate of Arizona.
    Guide rods defective or not have nothing to do with a Ka-Boom. They do nothing to support your argument.

    A civil suit does not aid your argument, it supports mine. All it does is demonstrate the litigious nature of our society. It further reminds us that if there were a defect, then suits would have been filed and lost by Glock. If Glock loses a lawsuit and continues to produce the “defective” product, then they expose themselves to further litigation.
    They are still producing their guns in large numbers.

    Wow. You just listed your first documentation. It seems you are able to do effective research. I appreciate your listing a study indicating the gun was not at fault (thanks for helping me prove my point) BUT THE AMMO WAS.

    You have failed. You are unable to prove your point.
    You have not shown that an unsupported chambers cause dramatic failure in a firearm. If pressure were the issue, why did the hundreds of thousands of 1903 Springfields used by our armed forces see service in both WWI and WWII? The pressures of the 30-06 cartridge surpass that of a .40 or 9mm. Yet the gun worked well.

    I note that as this debate continued your opinion changed.
    Your original statement was: “Glock 26 - unsupported chamber cause of case rupture explosions = gun destroyed & possible injury to shooter”
    And now: “Glocks are not bad handguns. But they are not the perfect handguns that the legions of fanboys make them out to be. Be a knowledgeable consumer, don't take fanboy endorsements at face value, compare products and choose the one that makes the most sense for you.”
    (I would like to point out that if you had made this comment earlier I would not have said anything as it is clearly stated as an opinion and not a fact.)

    I fail to see what relevance my nickname of “pole smoking ass pirate” has to this debate. The term was coined by a small minded man who was too stupid to listen to a reasonable explanation, all that mattered was his uneducated opinion. Oh wait, now I see why you used it…

    Since you seem to have given up on logic, and resorted to sarcasm, (a common tactic employed by those who are unable to support their argument with facts) I will no longer reply to your comments in this thread.
    Have a pleasant day.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

  23. #22
    submoa is offline Member
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    Again all pictures, articles, quotes provided by me can be easily found in a rudimentary internet search. I would encourage anyone considering any handgun to do a simple search on the internet in addition to soliciting OPINIONS of members here.

    And so, the incontrovertible fact is that controversy surrounds Glock kB!s. Contrary to disinformation from Glock fanboys, this has not been resolved.



    Addressing Old Padawan post,

    You have made self serving comments about your reasoning and logic.

    Your Pole Smoking Ass Pirate nickname is relevant since you used it in your SIG line for months. No one cares who tagged you with it. Whether or not it is true, your use defines you. And it shows your reasoning skills in posting an ad in this forum with that signature looking for a roommate.

  24. #23
    B3nT is offline Junior Member
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    Love my PPS!

    I bought my PPS in January. It's very slender, and when I realized how short the sight radius is (compared to my other guns) I figured it would probably be tough to shoot it accurately. Also, it is sooo petite I was sure it would be harsh in use.

    Wow: was I wrong on both counts. It's a great little shooter (see the Gunblast review for an objective overview). I'm not the world's best shooter, but I can get most of my rounds into 5" -- at 25 yards! For me, that's amazing with a 3" barrel. I can do better with my full size P88 or 1911, or with my red-dot equipped BHP, but the little Walter PPS with its open sights continues to amaze me every time I take it out! If I have to critique a favorite, the single stack magazines included are 6 and 7 rounds (8 is optional), which is comparatively tedious at the range, but is at the same time what makes it so incredibly small and slim for carry.

    (As a P99 owner, too, though, I would suggest you take a peek at the P99c AS, if you can find one. My P99 is a full-size QA, and wouldn't fit your compact requirement, but it is an excellent firearm with truly awesome ergonomics.)

    Colt Huntsman 22
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  25. #24
    PX
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    [QUOTE=B3nT;129784]

    (As a P99 owner, too, though, I would suggest you take a peek at the P99c AS, if you can find one. My P99 is a full-size QA, and wouldn't fit your compact requirement, but it is an excellent firearm with truly awesome ergonomics.)



    JMOO:

    I think the PPS is an excellent cc firearm. You DO give up capacity, (and in the case of the P99c/AS) a wonderful trigger/striker for one that IMO is less safe for the average "civilian" concealed carry person, but the trade off is the PPS is VERY THIN, and lighter than the P99c/AS. My PPS is quite accurate at self defense range, but the P99c/AS was MORE accurate by a bit, but in a self defense senario not enough to make a difference.. For making holes in targets my P99c/AS was the better choice, but for daily comfort, ease of concealment the PPS is the better choice, for me.

    I still have the full size P99/AS for my "home defense" pistol..

    Either is fine.

    Best Wishes,

    Jesse

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by B3nT View Post
    You DO give up capacity, (and in the case of the P99c/AS) a wonderful trigger/striker for one that IMO is less safe for the average "civilian" concealed carry person
    The gun is only as safe as its' handler. The striker action has nothing to do with the safety of the firearm. Finger off the trigger=no boom.

    -Jeff-

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