P99 or SW99 in 9mm
im trying to decide which to get as my next gun, it will only be 2nd, my first was a p22 and i really like the way it shoots, ive shot both through different friends that have em, but just can decide, so you tell me
Realize that the SW99 is the same gun as the Walther P99 A/S. But, the SW99 was discontinued at the end of 2005. Although, U can still buy them new.
The SW990L was still in production as of Dec 2007, but I think S&W will discontinue it soon, personally. They will want to push the M&P more. Anyway, the SW990L is the same as the P99 QA trigger, only it has no decocker button at all.
I have owned a SW99 up until recently, and I have 2 P99s. I prefer the P99. It looks better, and the grip IS slightly different - the P99's grip is better IMHO.
Also, before I decided to sell my SW99, I did comparison shooting many times, and my P99 A/S was slightly more accurate than the SW99. However, the SW99's triggerw as a tiny bit better. But, that can vary from specimen to specimen of the same gun.
If U can get the Walther, go ahead.
I only bought the SW99 because Walther stopped importing the P99 A/S for a few months in 2005. After I got it, I stillw anted the original....
And another country heard from!
Here's my 2c worth.
Are you a young (or relatively young) person?
If so keep in mind the P99 will come with a one year warranty. (That you will probably never need anyway). BUT: The SW99 will come with a Lifetime warranty, backed by S&W.
Keep in mind that finding good used P99/AS will be difficult, and pricey if you find one. A new Walther P99/AS will probably run you pretty close to $600.00. CDNN is selling "test fired only" SW99's for $369.00....
My buddy has an SW99 and when he and I shoot our guns head to head I just don't see any difference in accuracy or reliability, so I have a pretty high opinion of the SW99.
IMO the bargain both moneywise, and warrantywise is the SW99.. Now, having said that, I've got two P99's and one PPS...
I just love pistols with the Walther Banner on the slide, and so far I've never had one let me down..
I own both. They're both great guns - though they're hard to find. I'd get whichever one you can find at a decent price. The SW99 is usually a little cheaper, and comes with a lifetime warranty - the Walther P99 is one year. Couldn't go wrong with either one.
To me, the trigger type is more important than the brand. Most people (me included) prefer the Anti-stress(AS) trigger over the Quick-action(QA), Lightning(L), or Double-action-only(DAO).
The Walther has a 1 year official warranty - but S&W actually does the warranty for them, and I've never heard them turning anyone away - even after 1 year.
I'm a P99 fanatic, and I have only ever heard of 3 trigger styles - A/S, QA and DAO. Never heard of a Lightning trigger on a WALTHER P99...
Originally Posted by James NM
You can't lose with either.
SW99 and 2nd gen P99 share the same rail and while accessories are rare, they can be found. 1st gen P99 has proprietary front rail
1st gen P99 used by Bond in movies. (good news... will get you laid by Bond/Walther fans; bad news... these fans are mostly middle-aged guys)
SW99 lifetime S&W warranty. P99 1 year warranty service by S&W and sometimes out of warranty P99s fixed free.
SW99 has forward serrations on slide for easier press checks
SW99 was available in .45 ACP
SW99 has short 1st gen P99 mag release
1st gen P99 and SW99 have trigger hump
P99 has finger indexing groove on grip
The "Lightning" is the "L" in SW990L. Nothing more than Smith's version of the QA.
Originally Posted by Shipwreck
I don't wanna talk out of turn, but I've always held German engineering in higher regard than American engineering. That statement may be completely off when concerning firearms, but my experience with international engineering comes from cars. BMWs, MBs, Porsches, VWs, Audis...all put American companies to shame when it comes to build quality and reliability. But at the same time, Italians build the worst cars on the planet, yet Benelli, an Italian company, produces excellent shotguns. Smith & Wesson has a pretty high reputation, and being that I have very little experience with handguns, and no prolonged experience, I shouldn't make any irrational judgements. Even with that said, I'm still pretty biased toward German-made products. The only thing I know of they've produced that wasn't top of the line was Hitler.
Not to go OT here, but you consider Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati "the worst cars of the planet"?? You state that you have very little experience with handguns...let me tell you: You also have a lot to learn about cars...
Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy
You fall into the 99.99% of the population that think because a car is expensive, it's nice. Sure, they look cool, and they're fast, and they get you laid in the blink of an eye. But ask anyone who's ever owned an Italian car. They will tell you something along these lines: "It's a badass car...500hp V12, handles like a dream, and sounds like a UFO taking off. But stuff breaks on them about every 500 miles, and they're only worth having if you've got someone following you in a Dodge to pick up all the nuts and bolts falling off."
Originally Posted by loanwolf
Trust me bud...I know my cars. I know the ups and downs of about every car and motor out there. Italians are designers...they make things look real pretty. They do not build quality automotive setups. High horsepower in a 6.0-liter V12 means absolutely nothing. Is a 500-pound man benchpressing 500 pounds any more impressive than a 100-pound man benchpressing 100 pounds? No, it's not. 500hp or thereabouts out of 6.0 liters is not impressive. Nearly any of the VTEC or i-VTEC motors from Honda put out 100hp/liter, which in relation to their displacement, will beat down almost any normally aspirated engine out there. Yes, there are several Italian cars pushing over 1500bhp...and anything with that amount of power is impressive. But you're not paying for the power, you're paying for the image.
They handle well...big deal. They have super low centers of gravity, wide wheel bases, and stiff suspension. That's basic physics, and can be done with any car that can be fitted with certain parts.
They look cool...all that translates into a guaranteed death trap if you're in a wreck. And yes, with a car that fast, you will wreck.
Look man...Italian cars are cool. They're fast, stylish, and expensive. That doesn't make them reliable, steadfast, or quality pieces of equipment. And if you want to spend $250,000+ on a car to make it fast, or make it handle well, or make it look cool, you can take a lot of "average" street cars and do just that, while spending a lot less, and not having to retune or repair every couple of months. Now if you wanna spend $250,000+ just to say you have an Italian car and to get looks while you're driving around, like I said, you just want that image, and you're not very smart with your money. And if you think Porsche owners are smug, meet the ones driving Ferraris and Lambos.
American engineering is unmatched right now. The issue is not the engineering, not that we can't build them as well as this or that country. The issues are quality control and corporate bean counters looking at profitability. So Japan builds better cars right now, but it's not because the US is somehow not capable.
Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy
Doesn't sound like you're speaking from an owner's perspective...let's leave it at that.
If American companies could build as high quality of a car as Europeans or Japanese, then why don't they? It's simple...yes, they have the technology to do so, but they don't because they don't place a priority on it like the rest of the foreign car manufacturers. That just goes to show that Americans don't value a quality piece of engineering, so therefore they don't produce one. And why should they? Americans who are die-hard American car freaks don't wanna hear about how long their engine will last, or good gas mileage, or good emissions, or whatever. All they care about is horsepower and impressing the 16-year old girls at the drive-in movie. I'm not bashing anyone for buying an American-made vehicle. But there are plenty out there (mostly rednecks, which unfortunately we have too many around here) that say, "man I'd neh-ver buy a piece o' sh*t foreign Jap car...them things are just plain wussy. Real men drive trucks made in America. Ain't no thang better then sum American muscle!" The point is that when it comes to the important priorities of a vehicle, American companies do not keep up with the Swedes, Germans, or Japanese. Good gas mileage, high emissions standards, reliable build quality, excellent crash test ratings, etc...in the grand scheme of things, those are what matter most in building a quality, reliable automobile. Horsepower and looks don't mean jack when you're broken down on the side of the road. I'm not dogging on horsepower freaks...I love a fast car. But on a day-to-day basis, reliability is key.
Originally Posted by Snowman
HOWEVER, some American companies are making big steps. GM is doing great things with FLEXfuel, and they better be...they produce the biggest field of fuel-inefficient vehicles on the road. Ford is supposedly trying to make hydrogen fueling possible. Chrysler has their new lifetime powertrain warranty, which I would love to put to the test. Yes, there are some great American-built cars and trucks. And there are some poorly built foreign cars and trucks. Audis have stock DV problems. BMWs have rear end issues. Mitsubishi transmissions are ticking time bombs. But in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion, American companies still fall short in build quality and reliability.
Nor will I ever be. Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a car that impresses high schoolers and the drive-thru girl at McDonald's is silly.
Originally Posted by loanwolf
Guys we could argue this point for months. We all have our opinions, and they're not gonna change. I think we've hijacked this thread enough.
American engineers are the best out there. What the management types let them produce is another matter.
You think Flex Fuel will help GM with fuel economy?! Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline. FEWER miles per gallon. This is a liberal push that doesn't make sense. If it made sense it would be economical.
Ya'll are way off topic..
Get the Walther. I thought they were the same and got the SW(9 when I couldn't get my hands on a Walther. I had no intentions of buying a fullsize Walther later - when I bought the SW99...
BUt eventually... I started wanting the original... The Walther.
If U can get the P99 A/S now - just get it...
Like I said you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to cars...The main reason to buy a Ferrari is to impress high schoolers??
Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy
You do however have good taste in guns!
here is my thought on guns and cars
first, i wanted the walther p99 in 9mm. i spent prob a year before i purchased either. if i could have found the walther i would have bought it. i finally found one and the dealer (gander mt. did i say that out loud) wanted $799 for it. in my opinion thats price gouging. so i found a brand new sw99 w/ tijicon sights at a gun show for $500 out the door. i still wqnt a p99 just because i am trying to get my hands on all walthers possible. pert of it is the name but i love the way they look, and shoot. somehow i shoot best with a glock 23 but i still keep wanting walthers. ANY HOW ponder this, is the sw99 going to hold/raise it's value more than the walther? i know what alot of the immediate answres will be but let me plead my case. i've tried to trade my sw99 at least 3-4 times on the p99 and get this EVERY TIME the dealer has talked ME out of it. now i'll never sell my sw99 ever! whenever i've tried to trade it the first thing said 100% of the time is "are you sure you really want to do that? that's a rare bird. possibly one of the best smith&wesson guns ever produced. you really should keep it. or it would make a great heirloom." i've even had a gun say he would trade me a brand new p99 9mm for my used sw99 even swap. that dealer told me to think about it for a while then decide.
now my car rant. whoever said that american engineers don't produce quality machines compared to german engineering doesn't own either. they must be driving a toyota camry. i'm unbaised i love cars with a passion. i work on them have owned italian, german, japanese, and american. i'll by them if i like them knowing they will prob be a money pit. out of those countries i'll always regret selling my toyota pickup and my saturn. yeah thats right i said it a SATURN. i had a 2004 ion redline(that means it's supercharged) and it was bar none the most reliable car i've ever had. i always tinkered with it and when it was done it ran 19 lbs of boost and around 280 whp. i have never been beat in a race and being a saturn i was messed with alot. that little dude took porsches, all camaros and mustangs, and my greatest was i beat my brothers 400 hp vette in a quarter mile by one second. in conclusion 46,000 miles and only gas and oil, not one single problem. and if i perked any ears up it's still for sale for $12000 and i kept in really good shape. pm me if you want to see a video of it's sub 5 second zero to sixty or it's condition. the german and italian cars i had were worth it cause i bought them for a reason....to learn about cars and enjoy how they performed not however for their reliability. they were all electrical nightmares but when they were running good it was a true rush to drive them. thanks for listening.
Congrats on beating all these exotic cars that are way inferior to your Saturn. Problem is: when you all drive home from the track, they drive in Ferraris, Porsches, Benzes and Corvettes and you get to go home in your Saturn ...
Originally Posted by cragrat
Let's get back to our guns...I think there is more sense to be seen in that...
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