Originally Posted by ken2925

Hello folks, I'm wanting to find a good , reliable revolver for my wife. She carry's a Kahr CW9 now and as long as nothing fails, she loves that pistol. Now the problem, she has RA in her hands. If a jam or FTF happens she might not be able to cycle the slide to clear the problem. So now I'm looking for a revolver that will go bang 5 to 6 times without any problems. I personally like the Taurus model 651 in .357 mag, which she can shoot, practice, or carry .38's +P or +P+. I also like the model 851 in .38 which can handle the +P loads. Anybody that owns or carries one of these revolvers please give me some advice. Thanks for the help, K.C.

Hi Ken. That Taurus 851 runs around $350 and is a nice gun. Now don't get me wrong. I like and have owned Taurus guns, and never ever had a problem with any of them. But for $399 we bought my girlfriend a Ruger LCR 38 Special (not the 357). It's half the weight of the Taurus (around 13 ounces vs 25 ounces) and is a mighty sweet gun. Butter smooth trigger, reliable as dirt, light as a potato chip, and accurate as all heck. My 67 year old girlfriend can handle it just fine. As with any gun, it just takes practice. We shoot a lot together on my shooting range. My girlfriend just doesn't have the strength to rack the slide on most autos. But she can handle a revolver just fine. Paper plates at 21 feet are no problem for her. Forget the myth that snubbies or mouse guns are hard to handle and not accurate. Just watch the below video on the Ruger LCR in 38 Special. With modern state-of-the-art self defense ammo, the 38 special is more than capable of getting the job done, and with plenty of authority. IMHO, 38 special is better than 357 for self defense because of less recoil. Everybody seems to think bigger is better, but that's not always true. Now if this little gun were to do double as my woods gun, then I'd get it in 357 ($499) for those 4 legged critters. But for 2 legged critters, the 38 special is more than enough when using modern self defense ammo, and it $100 cheaper than the 357 version. But then we went one step further. We were shooting over 1000 rounds a week. I reload for both of us, but it was a challenge to keep up with all that reloading. So we got my girlfriend another gun. We got her the LCR 22 (8 shot, $449). It's exactly the same as the 38 but with 1 more pound in the trigger pull because it's a rim fire. When you pick up both guns, you can't tell them apart. I've included a link to a video showing why it pays to get both of these guns. My girlfriend prefers the stock grips on both guns. She practices about 75% of the time with the 22, and 25% of the time with the 38. I have extensive experience with both of these guns and can highly recommend them. That's not to say there aren't lots of other guns out there which would satisfy your needs just as well. Just go to youtube and do a search on any gun you're interested in. You will find tons of excellent gun review videos on youtube. Hickok45 has over 650 gun review videos on youtube. Nutnfancy is another good gun reviewer on youtube.

I hope this help and gives you some food for thought.

Semper Fi !

Don <><



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=959Gd5GjLlc&feature=plcp

Originally Posted by genesis

Hi Ken. That Taurus 851 runs around $350 and is a nice gun. Now don't get me wrong. I like and have owned Taurus guns, and never ever had a problem with any of them. But for $399 we bought my girlfriend a Ruger LCR 38 Special (not the 357). It's half the weight of the Taurus (around 13 ounces vs 25 ounces) and is a mighty sweet gun. Butter smooth trigger, reliable as dirt, light as a potato chip, and accurate as all heck. My 67 year old girlfriend can handle it just fine. As with any gun, it just takes practice. We shoot a lot together on my shooting range. My girlfriend just doesn't have the strength to rack the slide on most autos. But she can handle a revolver just fine. Paper plates at 21 feet are no problem for her. Forget the myth that snubbies or mouse guns are hard to handle and not accurate. Just watch the below video on the Ruger LCR in 38 Special. With modern state-of-the-art self defense ammo, the 38 special is more than capable of getting the job done, and with plenty of authority. IMHO, 38 special is better than 357 for self defense because of less recoil. Everybody seems to think bigger is better, but that's not always true. Now if this little gun were to do double as my woods gun, then I'd get it in 357 ($499) for those 4 legged critters. But for 2 legged critters, the 38 special is more than enough when using modern self defense ammo, and it $100 cheaper than the 357 version. But then we went one step further. We were shooting over 1000 rounds a week. I reload for both of us, but it was a challenge to keep up with all that reloading. So we got my girlfriend another gun. We got her the LCR 22 (8 shot, $449). It's exactly the same as the 38 but with 1 more pound in the trigger pull because it's a rim fire. When you pick up both guns, you can't tell them apart. I've included a link to a video showing why it pays to get both of these guns. My girlfriend prefers the stock grips on both guns. She practices about 75% of the time with the 22, and 25% of the time with the 38. I have extensive experience with both of these guns and can highly recommend them. That's not to say there aren't lots of other guns out there which would satisfy your needs just as well. Just go to youtube and do a search on any gun you're interested in. You will find tons of excellent gun review videos on youtube. Hickok45 has over 650 gun review videos on youtube. Nutnfancy is another good gun reviewer on youtube.

I hope this help and gives you some food for thought.

Semper Fi !

Don <><



Ruger LCR 22 Range Test and Review - YouTube

just a few words about weight..... NEWTONS 3RD LAW!

the less a gun weighs, the more recoil is transferred to the user... thats a simplified version but its the gist of it.

bullets with higher energy, pushing lots of lead create more recoil than smaller, milder bullets.
guns with less mass to absorb that recoil transfer it to the shooter.

so the same bullet shot from the taurus and the ruger is felt more from the lighter gun.

the lighter gun will also be off target longer, taking more time to set up the next shot.

its physics, its a law, means its always true, agree or not.

a gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable.

Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell

just a few words about weight..... NEWTONS 3RD LAW! the less a gun weighs, the more recoil is transferred to the user... thats a simplified version but its the gist of it. bullets with higher energy, pushing lots of lead create more recoil than smaller, milder bullets. guns with less mass to absorb that recoil transfer it to the shooter.
so the same bullet shot from the taurus and the ruger is felt more from the lighter gun. the lighter gun will also be off target longer, taking more time to set up the next shot. its physics, its a law, means its always true, agree or not. a gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable.

Well said and all true Ted. But the grip configuration and the grips themselves on the Ruger make the "felt recoil" extremely manageable and quick follow up shots are pretty easy. Just watch Hickok45 as he shoots the Ruger fast. The barrel hardly rises. The grips on the LCR completely encase the back strap. Plus there is a layer of some kind of blue energy absorbing material inside the grip along the back strap. The Ruger LCR really is pretty easy to shoot accurately, and quickly, as I'm sure is also true of many other fine guns. Many of today's guns are a far cry from my 1980's 40 ounce GP100 (which I LUV). Aint' technology great!

Don <><

Originally Posted by genesis

Well said and all true Ted. But the grip configuration and the grips themselves on the Ruger make the "felt recoil" extremely manageable and quick follow up shots are pretty easy. Just watch Hickok45 as he shoots the Ruger fast. The barrel hardly rises. The grips on the LCR completely encase the back strap. Plus there is a layer of some kind of blue energy absorbing material inside the grip along the back strap. The Ruger LCR really is pretty easy to shoot accurately, and quickly, as I'm sure is also true of many other fine guns. Many of today's guns are a far cry from my 1980's 40 ounce GP100 (which I LUV). Aint' technology great!

Don <><

the OP says the gun is for his wife who has RA.... i still say heavier is better

Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell

the OP says the gun is for his wife who has RA.... i still say heavier is better

And you may be right Ted. It all depends on what the OP's wife prefers. She should actually shoot any gun they're contemplating. My girlfriend shot my 40 ounce GP100 extensively, but now she prefers to shoot her lighter LCR. There really isn't much difference in felt recoil. That padded back-strap on the LCR really does make a difference. But the OP's wife may prefer a heavier gun. The LCR 22 may be a viable option for her. It's better than nothing. And while it wouldn't be my first choice, I wouldn't feel under-gunned with it. But I'm a pretty good shot. (Won more than my fair share of bowling pin shoots.) In by-gone days, I would have agreed with you that heavier is better for taming recoil. But having tried some of these new polymer guns using new grip technology, I'm starting to see the light. But I'll still never give up my old trusty stand-byes; my GP100 and especially my Ruger Redhawk 44 mag. What a chunk of iron!

Don <><

Originally Posted by genesis

..... But I'm a pretty good shot. (Won my fair share of bowling pin shoots.)

never did understand why people hate bowling pins so much, i mean they only ever do one of two things, stay standing or fall over.... and they dont even taste good????

Good idea to let her look at the Ruger LCR as the trigger (excellent)may also affect the decision and the J frame Smith might also be a consideration.....JJ

She has looked at the Ruger in both .38 and .357 mag version. The Ruger is very light, that is a fact! But my concern is that it may be to light. I know the Taurus pistols are heavier than the Ruger, and to me a heavier revolver will absorb more felt recoil, especially the Taurus with the ribber grips. The reason for the .357 mag gun is that she can practice with the lighter .38 loads. If she feels comfortable shooting .38 defensive +P or +P+ full loads then she can try the .357 mag defensive loads. We have not found a range yet that rents either pistol, we are hoping there is a range in Greenville that has the revolvers for rent. The only way that we are going to buy either gun hinges on how well she handles the recoil from both loads. Thanks again folks for all your help, K.C.

Originally Posted by ken2925

She has looked at the Ruger in both .38 and .357 mag version. The Ruger is very light, that is a fact! But my concern is that it may be to light. I know the Taurus pistols are heavier than the Ruger, and to me a heavier revolver will absorb more felt recoil, especially the Taurus with the ribber grips. The reason for the .357 mag gun is that she can practice with the lighter .38 loads. If she feels comfortable shooting .38 defensive +P or +P+ full loads then she can try the .357 mag defensive loads. We have not found a range yet that rents either pistol, we are hoping there is a range in Greenville that has the revolvers for rent. The only way that we are going to buy either gun hinges on how well she handles the recoil from both loads. Thanks again folks for all your help, K.C.

Hi Ken. Even though I have a Ruger GP100 which will easily handle full power 357 mags, I load Hornady 38 Special Critical Defense ammo for personal defense. I would never use 357 ammo for personal defense. Way to much power! This is a case where bigger isn't better. Any 38 special common self defense ammo will stop an assailant better than a 357 mag will. It's not the power of a round that stops the assailant. It's the rounds ability to instantly transfer/dissipate all of that energy inside the target. A 357 will just zip right through the target and not transfer as much energy as a 38 special common self defense round. It's a simple matter of physics.

Don <><

A .357 may be more likely to punch right on through the assailant than a .38 special would, however stopping power also has to be looked at as hydrostatic shock induced. The .38 special may do more visable damage when it hits, but the shockwave produced by the .357 rounds is going to be greater because of the increased velocity of the round. I purchased a Taurus .357 myself not just for the higher power rounds, but also because it has the versatility to fire both the .357 mag rounds and .38 special rounds.

If you don't mind dealing with the "moon clips", the Taurus 905 in 9mm might be worth looking at. Ammo is cheaper, more powerful, and at 22 oz the recoil is not bad.

Originally Posted by genesis

Well said and all true Ted. But the grip configuration and the grips themselves on the Ruger make the "felt recoil" extremely manageable and quick follow up shots are pretty easy. Just watch Hickok45 as he shoots the Ruger fast. The barrel hardly rises. The grips on the LCR completely encase the back strap. Plus there is a layer of some kind of blue energy absorbing material inside the grip along the back strap. The Ruger LCR really is pretty easy to shoot accurately, and quickly, as I'm sure is also true of many other fine guns. Many of today's guns are a far cry from my 1980's 40 ounce GP100 (which I LUV). Aint' technology great!

Don <><

I can only say. Please don't compare yourself to Hickok as he is one huge guy with huge hands that are strong. Watch him work the slides on some of his vids and you will see what I mean. Or watch how easy he loads a magazine.

I consider myself a decent pistol shooter but I am not in his league. This guy is good. I am only saying don't expct to get the results he does. When a weapon does not seem to recoil much in Hickok's hands, it may jump a lot more in the hands of the guys 67 year old girlfriend mentioned here and in yours also.

Originally Posted by ken2925

She has looked at the Ruger in both .38 and .357 mag version. The Ruger is very light, that is a fact! But my concern is that it may be to light. I know the Taurus pistols are heavier than the Ruger, and to me a heavier revolver will absorb more felt recoil, especially the Taurus with the ribber grips. The reason for the .357 mag gun is that she can practice with the lighter .38 loads. If she feels comfortable shooting .38 defensive +P or +P+ full loads then she can try the .357 mag defensive loads. We have not found a range yet that rents either pistol, we are hoping there is a range in Greenville that has the revolvers for rent. The only way that we are going to buy either gun hinges on how well she handles the recoil from both loads. Thanks again folks for all your help, K.C.

I own the Taurus M85 .38 SPL and that is a pretty decent gun for the money and shoots +P

Ken you might want to look into a Ruger SP101. It is a solid little gun. Definetly has weight, good accuiracy, and very reliable. This is not too much more than a Taurus, but by far is more of a gun than the Taurus.

I have no complaints whatsoever, about my little Taurus 85CH (concealed hammer). I wouldn't even think about trading it for a J-frame. It's just enough heavier than my buddies 642 to make a difference in the felt recoil with 125 gr +p ammo.

We had a Taurus 605 that my wife carried. It was a very accurate and reliable pistol.
I tried an LCR .38 of a friends using 38+P rounds and found it to be a bit sharper in recoil than the 605, which I expected.
About a year later I hefted an LCR 357 which is 2 ounces lighter than the 605 but has a slightly better trigger and hidden hammer therefore is more suitable in my mind for pocket or purse carry.
After purchasing it we are quite pleased with the change. The Taurus was a very good little pistol but LCR's in my opinion soften the recoil better.
We have arthritis also and the LCR 357 using 38+P works very well for us.