Originally Posted by Bisley
I was just checking this site out, http://www.huntingblades.com/410gacoisith.html , that what shooting the .410 out of a TC with a 10 inch barrel. Long story short, at 25 yards, only 14 pellets (9%) hit the target. Far from the ability obliterate anything.
So, I'm going to have to hit the button.
lol your not from round here are ya, not a CAT a fisher.....aka fisher cat, cause it has a tail that resembles the cat, and in all literacy i did not mean the fisher was completely gone, aka vanished into think air, i mean "there was nothing left of it" the term one usualy uses when they are trying to describe a visual of something that once looked a certain way, that now looks like its torso has gone through a wood chipper.
i posted that because i belive, that if a MAN were to take a .410 round , close quarters *wich is what the judge was designed for in the 1st place* to the chestplate........the next two sounds one would hear would be him hitting the ground then what is called a death rasp, the sound that comes from a humans lungs when they expell the remaining air in their lungs.
with that said, i think my statements are quite true. and anyone who honestly thinks that the judge would not be deadly close range, and truely honestly thinks that with every fiber in their being.......aim it at their beloved family pet, and squeeze one off..........if its not deadly, spot should be just fine
remember im not saying hes not right, im just saying, yeah its deadly lol
I've got to jump in here. I am a big fan of the .410 shotgun and I own two of them. Both are single shots, but I intend to get a pump when I find one at a reasonable price. I also own 5 12s and 2 20s. The .410, with less noise and less lethality at " neighbor's house" range, has no equal as a "yard gun" for small pests . Also it is a great tool for teaching "little folks" how to shoot.
That said, with my fondness for the .410 bore, I would not consider it a handgun cartridge. To me the Judge is a "neither/nor", neither a shotgun nor a handgun, and a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.
There are many fine small, light .410 shotguns out there for the yeoman duty of pest gun. For self defense, anything less than a 20 gauge is not the real manstopper you need. I have two HD shotguns and both are 12 gauge.
As far being able to kill, you can kill a man with a .22 if you place the bullet right. In self defense you are trying to stop the BG and that takes a bit more lead, especially when he is moving, in the dark, and not showing his "best side" for you to target.
There are also far better .45LC revolvers out there, some even from Taurus, if that is the cartridge you are going to use.
It is a cute "toy" but my guns aren't toys, they are tools and each has a very delineated working niche.
IMHO to many people still believe the street sweeper myth about shotguns and have attached it to The Judge. It just doesn't work that way. I have hunted and missed enough birds to know you have to point a shotgun in the proper direction if you intend to hit a particular target. That type pointing is also referred to as aiming whether you see the sights or not. I have also found the shorter the barrel the less effective they are.
If close enough for the Judge to work any other revolver with personal defense rated cartridges will work as well. If your target happens to be 10 feet or more away the standard revolver or SA pistols will be more effective. The objective in a self defense scenario is to stop the agressor not give him/her freckles.
The Judge was an excellent marketing move on the part of Taurus. The hype and novelty has generated a lot of business for them. I for one will stick to the more traditional point and click devices for protection duty.
If you like The Judge however, enjoy carrying it.
Well, my son purchased a Judge at the Houston gun show last month. We haven't had a chance to shoot it yet he is fixin to graduate in December and is doing everything he needs to to make that happen (SFA). Anyway my input is ammo. The only 45 LC I have found is at Acadamy and it is the "cowboy" loads. And when you pay $30.00 a box of 50 compaired to $9.97 for 50 9mm, its a no brainer for me, if your looking for a target gun, go with a 9mm, if you want to kill snakes, get a judge. A fellow at the range last week told the story of trying to kill snakes with a 9mm, didn't work to well from the seat of a tractor, but he had no problem with the judge and 410/000. As far as its ability to "take someone out", I hope I'm never faced with that call. Didn't have to do it for 20 years in the military and I hope that holds true now that I have become a civilian. But having done some research I have no doubt that someone coming through my door uninvited faced with five rounds of assorted lead will not meet with a very good night. Its all in what you want to do with any handgun, target shoot, hunt, or defend yourself. Anyway, just my opinion. I think it will be fun to shoot next weekend when he's home and I'll update my comment then.
Long way from any kind of gun expert. My favorite handgun is my 357 by far the one I reach for when office alarm has gone off and such. Yet after advice of a true gun expert for my wife with many reasons I will not get into he strongly suggest the Judge for her for self defense in and around the home. Based upon the few rounds of 2 1/2 6 we shot in a Judge and a few of the 45 LC it is not a 357 but as much as she can comfortable handle and does offer her the ability to shoot the snake that crawls across our land, the stray dog or such that may threaten and have the ability to stop an intruder. If some one were breaking into our house I much rather grab it than my 30-06 which surely has much more stooping power. To me much of the comments here are like a conversation I was recently in with a friend who is a very good hunter. Most people here hunt doves with 12 gage while his preferred gage is 28. He is very valid proof a well place smaller load is much more effective than a poorly place larger load of any kind.
Now if you wish to attack my thoughts do so and know I check such very very seldom so don't expect me to defend my beliefs. There is very seldom only one tool for any job and in self defense is one area where there are many variables that come into play.
That is a good point, and one I have come to accept over the years, despite holding on to most of my original opinions about which guns are good or bad. A person should probably use something they are comfortable with, and have confidence in, for self defense. That is obviously how you feel about your choice, and would be one of the last to try to deny you that privilege.
Originally Posted by Palmettokat
I have personally always shied away from the Taurus brand, in general, preferring instead to buy something that has not received so many negative appraisals, through the years. That doesn't mean they don't make some good guns...it just means that the odds of getting a trouble-free gun seem to favor you more if you buy something that receives zero negative appraisal, or at least appears to have a very low incidence of quality control problems.
I have read and participated in several of these 'Judge discussions,' and what I come away with is this: It is not a very accurate range gun for shooting .45 Colt, and it is not a very good shotgun, because of the rifled barrel, and shooting a small gauge from a very short barrel. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't fit a niche in some people's self defense arsenal.
Certainly, it would be an excellent snake gun, if you didn't mind lugging it around, although I prefer to just pick up a stick, hoe, shovel, rock, etc...or better still, just walk around the snake, if there are no small children in harm's way. And it should be OK for very close quarters self defense, although I think it would be just as easy to pick up a real shotgun, if at home, or to carry a more suitable CCW, if away from home.
I will always consider it a novelty gun, but there is little doubt that it can be used for self defense in some scenarios.
"OMG...I hear a noise downstairs! OMG, it's a burglar! Now, let's see...do I want to take my 9mm pistol, my .45, my .357 snubbie, my Mossberg 12ga, or my Judge? Decisions, decisions...which should I use?...Well, if he's in the dining room, the Judge would be OK. But if he's in the long hall, I'll need the Mossberg. And if he's in the kitchen..."
Originally Posted by Bisley
So, do we really need a "library" of weapons from which to choose? Or would it be better to become proficient with one very familiar, easy-to-use gun?
Which scenario, do you feel, would be the one to exactly suit the Judge?
(I apologize for my heavy use of irony, but your post really tickled my sarcasm bone.)
OP. Bought Taurus in the past, won't make that mistake again.
I do wish Ruger made something like this though. I like the idea behind the gun, I just don't like Taurus since two NIB revolvers I bought were trash out of the box.
One broke before I ever shot it. 50.00 to ship and insure the gun back to Taurus and the other started dropping frame screws while I was shooting it at the range. Another 50.00 to ship and insure. Both guns were out 5 weeks each so I was without both guns for a total of 10 weeks.
Thats 100.00 lost to sending them in for repairs and another 250.00 lost when I sold them back to the FFL when I got them back from repairs. 350.00 total loss.
I'm not qualified to judge that. Ask someone who believes in them.
Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1
Good discussion. Was considering the Judge for HD (first firearm purchase but am thinking twice about it. Maybe a 9 or .40 - maybe a shotgun...not yet sure but will continue to read these forums and get opinions.
I own three .410 shotguns ( yeah, I bought a pretty little Mossberg 500D after my previous post. A real princess of a gun) but I would never grab one for use against a human target. The .410 is a specialized hunting gun (pests, squirrels and small birds). It is not for large animals. You need a 12 gauge or a .38 spcl/9MM or bigger handgun for two legged pests. I really see the Judge as a Hiking gun for pests and maybe something for the pot. It has a niche, but I wouldn't use it as a primary SD weapon.
just picked up a public defender to go with my regular 3" judge im sure i will love both the same
Id like to have one but even with the defender and its 2 inch barrel I think it would be a bear to carry??? (anyone carry as a ccw?).
Saying that, Id think no matter wat yer carrying and shooting anything from an intruder to a snake to a pit bull, you have 5 shots not one, so if you pull the trigger fairy quick with 5 -.410 shots, 5- .45 long or alternating both, id say there would be little left of watever you shoot. HG
You try it first, and then tell me about it.
Originally Posted by hemmigremmie
I don't think you can get 'em off that fast, with a Judge. There may be a recoil-recovery problem, at least for most people.
My conjecture on this subject is that The Judge presents lots of recoil with little lethal effect.
Of course, that's just conjecture. I've never shot one.
Originally Posted by dosborn
Im with ya! I dont know what this "Judge" is suppose to be and actually could care less. I assume its some sort of pistol that has the ability to fire .410 shells..??
Lots of guys on this BB have fired many more pistol rounds than I have...because pistols arent my forte...they are protection devices MAINLY for me......but SHOTGUNS are a different story.
Ive worked on; tuned and patterned enough shotguns of various gauges ( all "upland game guns") to know for a FACT that someone that thinks you have to have a .410 pressed against someone else's skull to make it lethal hasnt been sniffing Hoppe's too long...they have been flat drinking the stuff.
Blowing anything larger than about #6 shot down the tube of a .410 CALIBER ( it really isnt a gauge even) is as useless as trying to blow marbles thru a clarinet..BUT...with the proper choke..and proper size of shot and quantity of shot, dont stand 10 feet in front of the muzzle because with the right combo the shot comes out "en' masse".....meaning one big ball of shot. 1/2 oz of lead at 1200-1400 FPS is just that...dont matter if its from a 460 Rowland or a 410 shotgun.
Of course with #7 1/2 shot at 1200-1400 fps and a choke such as Skeet #1 or even Improve Cylinder at 30-35 FEET it will disperse and throw a great looking quail killing pattern...especially over dogs on point.
Now was the gentleman who brought up the "lethal weapon" comment leaning too heavy on the "lethal" part....sure...but so called "experts" should be experts on BOTH SIDES before they profess what is what
I heard the Judge was gettin a new self defense round. Its a 410 caseing with three balls equal to .38 caliber thats going to shoot out in a nice self defense pattern???? Now thats only wat I heard. HG
I don't claim to be anything approaching an expert, but I'm guessing that ten feet is probably getting pretty close to the maximum lethal range of the judge, firing .410 shotgun shells. Since it also shoots .45 Colt, the barrel can have no choke, whatsoever, and it is rifled, which tends to cause a doughnut shaped pattern - not so bad for SD, up very close, but not so good at greater distances.
Originally Posted by Sully2
I have done some pattern testing with my 20 gauge 870 pump, with a 20" rifled barrel, and the shot pattern with No. 3 buck shot is less than impressive, past about 8-10 yards, due to the pattern spreading wide, and erratically with the rifled barrel. Yes, it would probably stop an attack, but it is not a certainty, by any means, against a worst-case type of bad guy.
Based on that, I don't see much advantage to a big, heavy, revolver that fires a thimble full of shot through a rifled 2" barrel. Granted, if I was on the receiving end, it would strike fear into my heart, but I wouldn't want to have to depend on it against a drug zombie that has no fear and feels no pain. Since we don't get to select our antagonists, that is one of the BG types we need to be prepared for, so I'm going to pass on the Judge.
I believe most of you are correct about lack of distance for "stopping" shots.
But let's be fair - this is a self protection gun Meant to be used in a bedroom (i.e. close up) - car jacking ... etc.
No one thinks it a target / distance gun. At least I hope not
With in 10' to 15' (bedroom) it would hurt like hell to get shot with bird shot or 000 buck and certainly by .45 Long Colt .
I believe it will do like it's designed to do - and lots of buyers agree ...
Kkinda like the Ruger LCP is a specialized weapon and it is one of the hottest selling guns in the past 2 years.
Just my .02 -
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