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Thread: The Judge

  1. #26
    mjgray is offline Junior Member
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    Well, my son purchased a Judge at the Houston gun show last month. We haven't had a chance to shoot it yet he is fixin to graduate in December and is doing everything he needs to to make that happen (SFA). Anyway my input is ammo. The only 45 LC I have found is at Acadamy and it is the "cowboy" loads. And when you pay $30.00 a box of 50 compaired to $9.97 for 50 9mm, its a no brainer for me, if your looking for a target gun, go with a 9mm, if you want to kill snakes, get a judge. A fellow at the range last week told the story of trying to kill snakes with a 9mm, didn't work to well from the seat of a tractor, but he had no problem with the judge and 410/000. As far as its ability to "take someone out", I hope I'm never faced with that call. Didn't have to do it for 20 years in the military and I hope that holds true now that I have become a civilian. But having done some research I have no doubt that someone coming through my door uninvited faced with five rounds of assorted lead will not meet with a very good night. Its all in what you want to do with any handgun, target shoot, hunt, or defend yourself. Anyway, just my opinion. I think it will be fun to shoot next weekend when he's home and I'll update my comment then.

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  3. #27
    Palmettokat is offline Junior Member
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    Long way from any kind of gun expert. My favorite handgun is my 357 by far the one I reach for when office alarm has gone off and such. Yet after advice of a true gun expert for my wife with many reasons I will not get into he strongly suggest the Judge for her for self defense in and around the home. Based upon the few rounds of 2 1/2 6 we shot in a Judge and a few of the 45 LC it is not a 357 but as much as she can comfortable handle and does offer her the ability to shoot the snake that crawls across our land, the stray dog or such that may threaten and have the ability to stop an intruder. If some one were breaking into our house I much rather grab it than my 30-06 which surely has much more stooping power. To me much of the comments here are like a conversation I was recently in with a friend who is a very good hunter. Most people here hunt doves with 12 gage while his preferred gage is 28. He is very valid proof a well place smaller load is much more effective than a poorly place larger load of any kind.

    Now if you wish to attack my thoughts do so and know I check such very very seldom so don't expect me to defend my beliefs. There is very seldom only one tool for any job and in self defense is one area where there are many variables that come into play.

  4. #28
    Bisley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmettokat View Post
    There is very seldom only one tool for any job and in self defense is one area where there are many variables that come into play.
    That is a good point, and one I have come to accept over the years, despite holding on to most of my original opinions about which guns are good or bad. A person should probably use something they are comfortable with, and have confidence in, for self defense. That is obviously how you feel about your choice, and would be one of the last to try to deny you that privilege.

    I have personally always shied away from the Taurus brand, in general, preferring instead to buy something that has not received so many negative appraisals, through the years. That doesn't mean they don't make some good guns...it just means that the odds of getting a trouble-free gun seem to favor you more if you buy something that receives zero negative appraisal, or at least appears to have a very low incidence of quality control problems.

    I have read and participated in several of these 'Judge discussions,' and what I come away with is this: It is not a very accurate range gun for shooting .45 Colt, and it is not a very good shotgun, because of the rifled barrel, and shooting a small gauge from a very short barrel. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't fit a niche in some people's self defense arsenal.

    Certainly, it would be an excellent snake gun, if you didn't mind lugging it around, although I prefer to just pick up a stick, hoe, shovel, rock, etc...or better still, just walk around the snake, if there are no small children in harm's way. And it should be OK for very close quarters self defense, although I think it would be just as easy to pick up a real shotgun, if at home, or to carry a more suitable CCW, if away from home.

    I will always consider it a novelty gun, but there is little doubt that it can be used for self defense in some scenarios.

  5. #29
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisley View Post
    ...I will always consider [the Judge] a novelty gun, but there is little doubt that it can be used for self defense in some scenarios. [emphasis added]
    "OMG...I hear a noise downstairs! OMG, it's a burglar! Now, let's see...do I want to take my 9mm pistol, my .45, my .357 snubbie, my Mossberg 12ga, or my Judge? Decisions, decisions...which should I use?...Well, if he's in the dining room, the Judge would be OK. But if he's in the long hall, I'll need the Mossberg. And if he's in the kitchen..."
    So, do we really need a "library" of weapons from which to choose? Or would it be better to become proficient with one very familiar, easy-to-use gun?
    Which scenario, do you feel, would be the one to exactly suit the Judge?

    (I apologize for my heavy use of irony, but your post really tickled my sarcasm bone.)

  6. #30
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    OP. Bought Taurus in the past, won't make that mistake again.
    I do wish Ruger made something like this though. I like the idea behind the gun, I just don't like Taurus since two NIB revolvers I bought were trash out of the box.
    One broke before I ever shot it. 50.00 to ship and insure the gun back to Taurus and the other started dropping frame screws while I was shooting it at the range. Another 50.00 to ship and insure. Both guns were out 5 weeks each so I was without both guns for a total of 10 weeks.
    Thats 100.00 lost to sending them in for repairs and another 250.00 lost when I sold them back to the FFL when I got them back from repairs. 350.00 total loss.
    Never again.

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Which scenario, do you feel, would be the one to exactly suit the Judge
    I'm not qualified to judge that. Ask someone who believes in them.

  8. #32
    anubis is offline Junior Member
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    JUDGEment

    Good discussion. Was considering the Judge for HD (first firearm purchase but am thinking twice about it. Maybe a 9 or .40 - maybe a shotgun...not yet sure but will continue to read these forums and get opinions.

  9. #33
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    I own three .410 shotguns ( yeah, I bought a pretty little Mossberg 500D after my previous post. A real princess of a gun) but I would never grab one for use against a human target. The .410 is a specialized hunting gun (pests, squirrels and small birds). It is not for large animals. You need a 12 gauge or a .38 spcl/9MM or bigger handgun for two legged pests. I really see the Judge as a Hiking gun for pests and maybe something for the pot. It has a niche, but I wouldn't use it as a primary SD weapon.

  10. #34
    crinko's Avatar
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    just picked up a public defender to go with my regular 3" judge im sure i will love both the same

  11. #35
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    Id like to have one but even with the defender and its 2 inch barrel I think it would be a bear to carry??? (anyone carry as a ccw?).

    Saying that, Id think no matter wat yer carrying and shooting anything from an intruder to a snake to a pit bull, you have 5 shots not one, so if you pull the trigger fairy quick with 5 -.410 shots, 5- .45 long or alternating both, id say there would be little left of watever you shoot. HG

  12. #36
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hemmigremmie View Post
    ...[Y]ou have 5 shots not one, so if you pull the trigger fairy quick with 5 -.410 shots, 5- .45 long or alternating both, id say there would be little left of watever you shoot. HG
    You try it first, and then tell me about it.
    I don't think you can get 'em off that fast, with a Judge. There may be a recoil-recovery problem, at least for most people.

    My conjecture on this subject is that The Judge presents lots of recoil with little lethal effect.
    Of course, that's just conjecture. I've never shot one.

  13. #37
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by dosborn View Post
    I have shot a Judge but have not attempted to kill anything with it. I am not a professional but from my experience with this gun and a .410 000 buck it could be very deadly. I don't know how close you would have to be but I would be confident in it protecting me from a BG 10-15 feet away. I don't think it take a dumb ass or a smart ass to figure it out.

    Im with ya! I dont know what this "Judge" is suppose to be and actually could care less. I assume its some sort of pistol that has the ability to fire .410 shells..??

    Lots of guys on this BB have fired many more pistol rounds than I have...because pistols arent my forte...they are protection devices MAINLY for me......but SHOTGUNS are a different story.

    Ive worked on; tuned and patterned enough shotguns of various gauges ( all "upland game guns") to know for a FACT that someone that thinks you have to have a .410 pressed against someone else's skull to make it lethal hasnt been sniffing Hoppe's too long...they have been flat drinking the stuff.

    Blowing anything larger than about #6 shot down the tube of a .410 CALIBER ( it really isnt a gauge even) is as useless as trying to blow marbles thru a clarinet..BUT...with the proper choke..and proper size of shot and quantity of shot, dont stand 10 feet in front of the muzzle because with the right combo the shot comes out "en' masse".....meaning one big ball of shot. 1/2 oz of lead at 1200-1400 FPS is just that...dont matter if its from a 460 Rowland or a 410 shotgun.

    Of course with #7 1/2 shot at 1200-1400 fps and a choke such as Skeet #1 or even Improve Cylinder at 30-35 FEET it will disperse and throw a great looking quail killing pattern...especially over dogs on point.

    Now was the gentleman who brought up the "lethal weapon" comment leaning too heavy on the "lethal" part....sure...but so called "experts" should be experts on BOTH SIDES before they profess what is what

  14. #38
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    I heard the Judge was gettin a new self defense round. Its a 410 caseing with three balls equal to .38 caliber thats going to shoot out in a nice self defense pattern???? Now thats only wat I heard. HG

  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sully2 View Post
    Blowing anything larger than about #6 shot down the tube of a .410 CALIBER ( it really isnt a gauge even) is as useless as trying to blow marbles thru a clarinet..BUT...with the proper choke..and proper size of shot and quantity of shot, dont stand 10 feet in front of the muzzle because with the right combo the shot comes out "en' masse".....meaning one big ball of shot. 1/2 oz of lead at 1200-1400 FPS is just that...dont matter if its from a 460 Rowland or a 410 shotgun.
    I don't claim to be anything approaching an expert, but I'm guessing that ten feet is probably getting pretty close to the maximum lethal range of the judge, firing .410 shotgun shells. Since it also shoots .45 Colt, the barrel can have no choke, whatsoever, and it is rifled, which tends to cause a doughnut shaped pattern - not so bad for SD, up very close, but not so good at greater distances.

    I have done some pattern testing with my 20 gauge 870 pump, with a 20" rifled barrel, and the shot pattern with No. 3 buck shot is less than impressive, past about 8-10 yards, due to the pattern spreading wide, and erratically with the rifled barrel. Yes, it would probably stop an attack, but it is not a certainty, by any means, against a worst-case type of bad guy.

    Based on that, I don't see much advantage to a big, heavy, revolver that fires a thimble full of shot through a rifled 2" barrel. Granted, if I was on the receiving end, it would strike fear into my heart, but I wouldn't want to have to depend on it against a drug zombie that has no fear and feels no pain. Since we don't get to select our antagonists, that is one of the BG types we need to be prepared for, so I'm going to pass on the Judge.

  16. #40
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    I believe most of you are correct about lack of distance for "stopping" shots.

    But let's be fair - this is a self protection gun Meant to be used in a bedroom (i.e. close up) - car jacking ... etc.

    No one thinks it a target / distance gun. At least I hope not

    With in 10' to 15' (bedroom) it would hurt like hell to get shot with bird shot or 000 buck and certainly by .45 Long Colt .

    I believe it will do like it's designed to do - and lots of buyers agree ...

    Kkinda like the Ruger LCP is a specialized weapon and it is one of the hottest selling guns in the past 2 years.

    Just my .02 -


  17. #41
    Bisley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondavis3 View Post
    Kkinda like the Ruger LCP is a specialized weapon and it is one of the hottest selling guns in the past 2 years.
    The same reason does account for high sales for both of these guns - buyer ignorance. Don't get me wrong...there are niches in a person's self-defense 'line-up' that can probably be filled well enough by both of these guns. I have an LCP because it is better than nothing at all, for the times I can't have anything else. I dread the thought of maybe having to use it to protect myself or loved ones, but not as much as I dread the thought of having nothing.

    But a lot of these types of guns are purchased by people who think they are a lot more useful, or versatile, than they really are. While I have found something the LCP can do for me that my other guns cannot, I have yet to find such a use for a Judge, personally.

    Maybe I should stop being so narrow-minded and just buy one on the chance that I would enjoy playing with it.

  18. #42
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Well...I broke down and went and looked up "The Judge"..Why? Beats hell out of me...

    But IMHO...that "thing" is about as useful as a rubber crutch!

    Reading comments as ..."The Judge becomes better suited for solving social disputes of the most unfriendly kind. I see this as an ideal weapon to keep on the car seat to quickly resolve an attempted car-jacking. When a punk jerks the car door open, a face full of number four shot should rapidly dissuade the social misfit from wanting anything to do with your car, and should also render him unable to pass the eye exam for a driverís license for the rest of his miserable life."

    Well..I dont know what states you guys live in...but here in Ohio....you get caught with a loaded firearm...within reach of the driver...and uncased...even if you DO have a concealed permit....your going to be spending some serious time before the Judge ( the LEGAL judge)

    Frankly..if I had MY choice of this or some other weapon....Id take the other weapon even if it was a sharp stick!

  19. #43
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    In Florida if you have your ccp you can have your gun loaded in the seat next to you or anywhere else in your car for that matter. Thanks to the castle doctrine. I mean what good is an unloaded gun going to do you anyway? I rather not carry at all,unless you want to pistol whip your attacker.

  20. #44
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledgehammer View Post
    In Florida if you have your ccp you can have your gun loaded in the seat next to you or anywhere else in your car for that matter. Thanks to the castle doctrine. I mean what good is an unloaded gun going to do you anyway? I rather not carry at all,unless you want to pistol whip your attacker.
    Ohio doesnt want anyone to be able to reach over "almost" unseen and get a weapon to be used to shoot a patrolman when he approaches. Ohio is kinda tough on that fact...but its also why you have to take a CCW course for 12 hours as compared to giving the state $40 and 2 thumb prints as SOME states do for a CCW.....

  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sully2 View Post
    Ohio doesnt want anyone to be able to reach over "almost" unseen and get a weapon to be used to shoot a patrolman when he approaches. Ohio is kinda tough on that fact...but its also why you have to take a CCW course for 12 hours as compared to giving the state $40 and 2 thumb prints as SOME states do for a CCW.....
    Well, that law must be really frustrating for a cop-killer, since it makes it against the law for him to have his gun at the ready. There's just no telling how many LEO's have been saved by this brilliant piece of legislation.

  22. #46
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    Agreed that's the silliest piece of legislation I've heard of - we all know how cop killers play by the rules right? Trust me I don't ride with my gun in the seat - if you get pulled over that will get you killed. I can get to it easily though if needed. And it's loaded - I had a cop ask me if it was loaded one day and I said yeah. He said good - it won't do you no good unloaded.

    I got the latest edition of rifleman in the mail and they had the .410 self defense shells in it made by Winchester.

    3 disc shoot out and I think like 9 pellets. It says right in the add it's made for shotguns or the Taurus Judge. Lol

  23. #47
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisley View Post
    Well, that law must be really frustrating for a cop-killer, since it makes it against the law for him to have his gun at the ready. There's just no telling how many LEO's have been saved by this brilliant piece of legislation.

    Take it up with the people in Columbus. I just follow the laws...I dont make them!

    But right offhand Id have to say it must do something for the betterment...since the same principal has been in effect for "long guns" for MORE than 60 years!

    NO loaded firearms within reach of the driver; if loaded it must be either locked away; cased or out of possible reach ( such as in the trunk)

  24. #48
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledgehammer View Post
    Agreed that's the silliest piece of legislation I've heard of - we all know how cop killers play by the rules right? Trust me I don't ride with my gun in the seat - if you get pulled over that will get you killed. I can get to it easily though if needed. And it's loaded - I had a cop ask me if it was loaded one day and I said yeah. He said good - it won't do you no good unloaded.

    I got the latest edition of rifleman in the mail and they had the .410 self defense shells in it made by Winchester.

    3 disc shoot out and I think like 9 pellets. It says right in the add it's made for shotguns or the Taurus Judge. Lol
    Oh...so living in Florida and having your CCW and riding around with a loaded weapon on the seat besde you is INTELLIGENT???

    What state do you live in so we can find some assinine ( in other people opinions) laws they have...probably somewhere there is a law that brothers and sisters cant marry...but it seems some broke that law also.!!!

    In Florida if you have your ccp you can have your gun loaded in the seat next to you or anywhere else in your car for that matter. Thanks to the castle doctrine. I mean what good is an unloaded gun going to do you anyway? I rather not carry at all,unless you want to pistol whip your attacker.

  25. #49
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    Oh...so living in Florida and having your CCW and riding around with a loaded weapon on the seat besde you is INTELLIGENT???
    First of all - nobody said it was intelligent, and nobody said they did that. In fact I said it was a good way to get shot if you do happen to get pulled over by LE. A little common sense here. Ok Ohio?

    What state do you live in so we can find some assinine ( in other people opinions) laws they have...probably somewhere there is a law that brothers and sisters cant marry...but it seems some broke that law also.!!!
    Most people with a shred of common sense would be able to ascertain that I live in Florida from my above post. Unfortunately it appears common sense waived bye bye to you a long time ago. No need to get in to personal attacks here. I guess I would get worked up too if I was busted not knowing WTF I was talking about. Since you seem to be a little ignorant on the the carry laws of your home state of Ohio I'll post a fragement here so you don't get in trouble in the future.

    You need to realize - you just got owned with 5 seconds of internet research on your state. HA! There is nothing in your states general law that indicates the gun must be unloaded. and there never was.

    An Ohio CCW license does not allow totally unfettered carry. Any owner of private property can ban concealed handguns by posting a sign in clear view, and most government buildings are off-limits as well as hospitals and schools and most religious places as long as they are clearly marked (to be clearly marked, you MUST have a sign clearly posted by your entrances). Ohio statute ORC 2923.16 allows for three ways for a licensee to carry a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle (which includes motorcycles):

    In a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun;[200]
    In a closed glove compartment or console, or in a case that is locked;[200]
    In a holster secured on the person.[200]
    This is a change from the earlier version of the bill that required the weapon to be in a locked box or in plain sight and secured to the person.[199]

    On 2006-11-29, the Ohio legislature approved Amended Substitute House Bill 347. This bill would preempt all firearms regulation, thus removing any doubt as to the validity of local regulation of firearms, as well as relaxing the requirements for carrying a weapon in a vehicle. This bill removed the requirement for plain sight if the gun was holstered or in a locked container, and allowed carry in an unlocked but closed or latched container if in plain sight.[201]
    have a good one

  26. #50
    Todd is offline Banned
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    A) Stop the pissing contest

    &

    B) Get back to the topic

    or

    C) Thread done

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