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Thread: The Judge

  1. #21
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    I like the Judge because it is huge, cheap, heavy, ugly and chambers not one but two semi-effective cartridges. I think I'll wait till they offer it in 28 gauge with a new proprietary .55 Taurus Magnum handgun load.
    Sorry, to each his own.
    Eli

  2. #22
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    They're comin' out with a 12ga/.75 caliber model in a coupla weeks, Eli.
    Only five shots, but what the heck, right?

    Jean and I will be away 'till the 15th. See you then.

  3. #23
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    They're comin' out with a 12ga/.75 caliber model in a coupla weeks, Eli.
    Only five shots, but what the heck, right?

    Jean and I will be away 'till the 15th. See you then.
    Roger that. Have a safe trip.
    Eli

  4. #24
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    I trust my 3" Judge with my life, that's why it's my nightstand gun. First off, people try to shoot regular .410 shotgun ammo out of it, way too much spread for such a short barrel. I exclusively use the Federal 410 Handgun plated 000 and the Win. PDX1, both have spread control sabots and are made for guns like the Judge. Here's a target I shot with the PDX1 at 25ft.

    You can see where the sabot hit the bottom of the target, this would be a real bad day for a bad guy. The Federal plated 000 patterns just as well. It's all in the ammo you feed it and there's always 4 more shots in the cylinder.
    I have mine loaded with 2 PDX1's, 2 Federal 000, and 1 of my 45Colt x-tra whoop-ass, handloaded, 250gr XTP's. If that don't stop an intruder I guess you'd better get the kryptonite. I can't understand why people hate this gun so much. I saw past the gimmick and took the time to explore the options available, a couple thousand rounds later, I have no regrets, and no doubt.

  5. #25
    bayhawk2 is offline Member
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    The Judge is a serious "take out the bad guy"weapon.I agree.The
    Federal 000 buck handgun .410's are my favorite.They hold a good pattern
    and are bad to the bone.Slap 5 rounds (20) 000 buckshot in the b/g and
    call the dog food factory.Won't be nothing left but hamburger meat.

  6. #26
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayhawk2 View Post
    The Judge is a serious "take out the bad guy"weapon.I agree.The
    Federal 000 buck handgun .410's are my favorite.They hold a good pattern
    and are bad to the bone.Slap 5 rounds (20) 000 buckshot in the b/g and
    call the dog food factory.Won't be nothing left but hamburger meat.
    Sounds good, but it just isn't true.
    The real fight stopper is penetration, specifically into seriously important organs like the heart, the aortic arch, or the brain. But the buckshot that comes out of a .410 case, particularly through a short barrel, has neither the mass nor the velocity to penetrate to any meaningful degree. Even the .410 slug is less than competent in this regard.
    All the Judge will do is create superficial wounds which, although painful and perhaps even blinding, will not stop an oncoming BG. It might even make him that much madder.

  7. #27
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringer View Post
    I can't understand why people hate this gun so much. I saw past the gimmick and took the time to explore the options available, a couple thousand rounds later, I have no regrets, and no doubt.
    Sorry to joke about the Judge, I'm sure it is the right choice for you, and that's really the important thing right? I would most definitely not want to take a blast of .410 like your target shows. Is there much muzzle flash in a darkened area? Anyway, apologies for being a smart a%%. i'd say that it won't happen again, but it probably will. Regards, Eli

  8. #28
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringer:
    "I can't understand why people hate this gun so much..."


    It isn't hate. It's experience, practicality, and the ability to see through the advertising hype.
    The Judge seems at first glance to be a good idea, but then, if you examine its abilities carefully, rationally, and with a critical mind, you will find that it can't possibly do what Taurus's advertising says it will do.
    Buckshot from the .410 shell does indeed tear up paper targets, but paper targets are not the same as goblins. Further, slug loads from the Judge are inferior to .45 "Long" Colt cartridges.
    But if you accept these facts and then decide to shoot .45 "Long" Colt loads, why didn't you buy a .45 "Long" Colt pistol in the first place?

    The Judge is a poor, impractical solution to a serious, real-world problem.

  9. #29
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Sounds good, but it just isn't true.
    The real fight stopper is penetration, specifically into seriously important organs like the heart, the aortic arch, or the brain. But the buckshot that comes out of a .410 case, particularly through a short barrel, has neither the mass nor the velocity to penetrate to any meaningful degree. Even the .410 slug is less than competent in this regard.
    All the Judge will do is create superficial wounds which, although painful and perhaps even blinding, will not stop an oncoming BG. It might even make him that much madder.
    Welcome back Steve. Thank you for your thoughts on the Judge's effectiveness. I guess if it were me I'd tuck a little Stoeger 20 Bore under the bed if I wanted to use a shotgun. Do you think two rounds of 3" 20 Ga. mag 00 buckshot would work? (I would have a 5 round cartridge belt on the stock for reloads, and my bedside Beretta 9mm for backup). I like the handiness of the 20 over the 12. Sorry I am drifting a bit, but we ARE talking shotgun performance here right?
    Eli

    Eli

  10. #30
    bayhawk2 is offline Member
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    Well.I go by what I see.I don't know how deep this converts to flesh
    but I wanted to go to as short a barrel as possible to show it.This is
    just a little derringer with the 000 buckshot.As you can also see in the video,
    he is away from target.YouTube - Water penetration test: Federal Premium .410 000 Buckshot 4 pellet in a Bong Arms Derringer
    Superficial?Whatever.I "don't" accept hear say.I accept facts.
    This is just what the 000 buckshot will do.The slug is awesome,however I stick
    to what I "KNOW" will take out the B/G.

  11. #31
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Well, Eli, 20ga is better than .410, but I hesitate to say how much better. Certainly, the longer shotgun barrel will permit the 20ga load to achieve more useful velocity than a pistol barrel would, and "power" (or whatever you prefer to call it) is a function of both mass and velocity.

    Given the choice, I'd definitely rather have a 20ga shotgun than a .410 pistol.

  12. #32
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayhawk2 View Post
    Well.I go by what I see.I don't know how deep this converts to flesh
    but I wanted to go to as short a barrel as possible to show it.This is
    just a little derringer with the 000 buckshot.As you can also see in the video,
    he is away from target.YouTube - Water penetration test: Federal Premium .410 000 Buckshot 4 pellet in a Bong Arms Derringer
    OK, let's analyze this.
    Triple-ought buckshot measures 0.36", and each weighs about 70 grains. Four of them total 280 grains. Google suggests a muzzle velocity of 1,200fps.
    One .45 ACP RN lead bullet weighs 230 grains and, in the classic loading, goes out at 850fps. The .45 "Long" Colt has about the same ballistics (but a heavier bullet).
    But you have to consider each 000 pellet as a separate missile. That's 70 grains of lead at 1,200fps, taken four times.
    So tell me: Which will shock the system more, which will penetrate further, and which will do more fight-stopping damage, a 70gr pellet at 1,200fps, or a 230gr bullet at 850fps?

    You prefer the four 36-caliber, 70gr pellets. I prefer the 45-caliber, 230gr bullet.
    Chaque'un son gut.

  13. #33
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1
    You prefer the four 36-caliber, 70gr pellets. I prefer the 45-caliber, 230gr bullet.
    [I
    Chaque'un son gut.[/I]
    Oui Stephane, de gustibus non est disputandum!
    Elijah Wolfe

  14. #34
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliWolfe View Post
    Oui Stephane, de gustibus non est disputandum!
    Elijah Wolfe
    Some people mix metaphors, but you, Eli, mix languages.

    Veritas simplex oratio est, say I.

    ...And, oh, that I could play as well as Stephane Grappelli!

  15. #35
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Some people mix metaphors, but you, Eli, mix languages.

    Veritas simplex oratio est, say I.

    ...And, oh, that I could play as well as Stephane Grappelli!
    You one funny hombre Steve. Hey, didn't they name the grappelling hook after that guy?
    Adios mon ami, I must cease and desist before the drifter authorities arrive.
    Eli

  16. #36
    zebramochaman is offline Member
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    I own one. It shoots .45 Colt without any problems, but .410 shotgun freezes the cylinder. I'm not sure if it is the gun or the ammo.

  17. #37
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebramochaman View Post
    I own one. It shoots .45 Colt without any problems, but .410 shotgun freezes the cylinder. I'm not sure if it is the gun or the ammo.
    I have been reliably informed that the cause of this particular problem may be that the cylinder is too loose, in a front-to-back direction. The solution, if that's the case, is to place a thin shim at the front of the cylinder, on the cylinder's axis. (This is a job for a gunsmith—or for Taurus, under warranty.)

  18. #38
    j4l
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    Sounds good, but it just isn't true.
    The real fight stopper is penetration, specifically into seriously important organs like the heart, the aortic arch, or the brain. But the buckshot that comes out of a .410 case, particularly through a short barrel, has neither the mass nor the velocity to penetrate to any meaningful degree. Even the .410 slug is less than competent in this regard.
    All the Judge will do is create superficial wounds which, although painful and perhaps even blinding, will not stop an oncoming BG. It might even make him that much madder.
    Wow. the internet myths just keep coming...25 acp, birdshot, fmj, all have their myths about what they will or can or wont/cant do.

    I had to drop a guy with a single-shot, NEF .410 about 13 yrs ago, when he was attempting a home-invasion. Busted open my door,despite my calls to him to leave, Im armed. They NEF was the only thing I had in the house at the time. Soon as he came through the door- I fired from 15 feet with the #4 load I had in it-straight into his face. DOA. Instantly.

    Try this- #4 or #6 shot in .410 , 25 meters, 4 inches of pine 1 inch of steel for target.. then come back and lets us know how "superficial" you think the wound would be.
    A few months back, I tested .410 and 12 on a bunch of typical household materials I had around from an old out-building that we took down. #4, #6 and 000 in .410, and 00 in 12.
    Only #6 shot failed to go all the way through everything. Open cyl, on both shotguns- no chokes.
    Biggest spread of any of the shots was #6 @ 25 meters- out to about 11 inches. everything else patterened into a spread u can cover with your palm. I tested this because of all the interweb debates and bad advice folks give each other about 00 vs. birdshot for home-defense, penetration of walls etc. Make no mistake about it- #4, #6 shot are going to penetrate almost everything 00 or 000 do. Little Suzie 3 rooms down is no more safe with birdshot.
    Dont take anyone's word on it though, try for yourself-seeing IS beleiving.

    That said though- the Judge would be an ideal snake gun- (get a lot of Rattlesnake/Cottonmouth here). Wouldnt hesitate to use it for human pests if needed either.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Wow. the internet myths just keep coming...25 acp, birdshot, fmj, all have their myths about what they will or can or wont/cant do.
    No offense, but the fact that you consider Taurus to be in any way, shape or form a quality firearm kind of detracts from any info you're posting about load data. Taurus is the Yugo of the gun world, sure it'll work... right up until you need it to.

  20. #40
    j4l
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    No offense, but the fact that you consider Taurus to be in any way, shape or form a quality firearm kind of detracts from any info you're posting about load data. Taurus is the Yugo of the gun world, sure it'll work... right up until you need it to.
    And brand snobbery most certainly lends credibility...? If reading-comprehension were a skill of yours, you'd note I hadnt fired any of the loads I mentioned from the Taurus- it was an NEF in .410, and a Remington 870 for the 12... The load data holds. The tool itself, is of a design ideal for the task mentioned.

    As for credibility of Taurus owners/users, I suppose you deem yourself credible enough to discredit everyone on this thread page? Tell us, plz, oh guru of gun wisdom, what brought you to the Taurus brand pages with your extensive free time?

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