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Thread: Active shooter

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    Harryball's Avatar
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    Active shooter

    Most folks think that this is for Military and police only. IMO I do not believe that is the case. An armed citizen could be a game changer in an active shooter scenario. Since the shooting in colorado I think more people should take a look at this type of event and ask themselves if they are ready. Can you make a difference? Either way, there is no right answer, this is a personal choice that you, and you alone will make.

    Law Enforcement Tactics for an Active Shooter

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    Good video.

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    Good video. I like how he touched on speed with caution.

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    The videos touched on a couple of things.

    SWAT doctrine at the time of Columbine was Contain, Isolate, Communicate which as noted at Columbine did not work. It did no good to spend precious time organizing when kids were being killed. Again as stated tactics changed. Immediate entry, bypass the wounded and any unknown devices, find the shooter and eliminate the threat. Period. Active shooter classes were and still are a hot training issue with several instructors with many different classes being offered. Many departments sent instructors off to be trained and come back to teach others.

    Could officers from different agencies come together at a later time, form up and get the job done? Like most everything else it comes down to a training issue. If they have attended a class last year and have not trained since then probably not as effective as if they as if they have continued to train with the skills they learned there is no reason they could not.

    In regards to the situation in Colorado or multiple others around the country. There are many factors that have to be considered before you have made the decision to act.

    What is your personal skill level? If the last time you fired your handgun was when you purchased it and took your class six months before? Would/could you take the shot?
    Have you trained in low light, under stress, at an unknown distance? Many carriers feel that they should only train at three yards, three shots and so on simply because that is what the statistics say most gunfights occur
    .
    What if the distance is 11 yards? You have two basic choices. First do not engage as it is outside your effective engagement range and secondly close the distance to the shooter until you are within your effective range. Not many average CC'ers are trained or have the skillset/mindset to advance on a gunman firing a rifle in there direction.

    Who is with you at the time? Is your 11 year old sitting next to you and your wife? If you fire and the hit is not immediately effective or you miss there is a high probability that the gunman's attention will be turned towards you. Are you willing to risk your family?

    What equipment/firearm are you carrying? Basically is your pocket, DAO .380 able to stop the threat? The Colorado incident took place in a darkened theater. Do you have a tactical light? Does your handgun have nights sights? Do you know where your weapon shoots at extended ranges? Does you ammo have the accuracy potential to make a head shot Is your ammunition a good SD load or did you save a few bucks and just buy a box of ball ammo at Walmart because it was cheaper? **

    When the time comes we will all have to decide what we will do. The question you have to ask yourself is will you be a help or a handicap?

    **Note: Here I am restricted to ball ammo and even when home I often carry ball ammo in my carry guns. That is my choice though based on my criteria of reliability over anything else. You choose whatever round you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    The videos touched on a couple of things.

    SWAT doctrine at the time of Columbine was Contain, Isolate, Communicate which as noted at Columbine did not work. It did no good to spend precious time organizing when kids were being killed. Again as stated tactics changed. Immediate entry, bypass the wounded and any unknown devices, find the shooter and eliminate the threat. Period. Active shooter classes were and still are a hot training issue with several instructors with many different classes being offered. Many departments sent instructors off to be trained and come back to teach others.

    Could officers from different agencies come together at a later time, form up and get the job done? Like most everything else it comes down to a training issue. If they have attended a class last year and have not trained since then probably not as effective as if they as if they have continued to train with the skills they learned there is no reason they could not.

    In regards to the situation in Colorado or multiple others around the country. There are many factors that have to be considered before you have made the decision to act.

    What is your personal skill level? If the last time you fired your handgun was when you purchased it and took your class six months before? Would/could you take the shot?
    Have you trained in low light, under stress, at an unknown distance? Many carriers feel that they should only train at three yards, three shots and so on simply because that is what the statistics say most gunfights occur
    .
    What if the distance is 11 yards? You have two basic choices. First do not engage as it is outside your effective engagement range and secondly close the distance to the shooter until you are within your effective range. Not many average CC'ers are trained or have the skillset/mindset to advance on a gunman firing a rifle in there direction.

    Who is with you at the time? Is your 11 year old sitting next to you and your wife? If you fire and the hit is not immediately effective or you miss there is a high probability that the gunman's attention will be turned towards you. Are you willing to risk your family?

    What equipment/firearm are you carrying? Basically is your pocket, DAO .380 able to stop the threat? The Colorado incident took place in a darkened theater. Do you have a tactical light? Does your handgun have nights sights? Do you know where your weapon shoots at extended ranges? Does you ammo have the accuracy potential to make a head shot Is your ammunition a good SD load or did you save a few bucks and just buy a box of ball ammo at Walmart because it was cheaper? **

    When the time comes we will all have to decide what we will do. The question you have to ask yourself is will you be a help or a handicap?

    **Note: Here I am restricted to ball ammo and even when home I often carry ball ammo in my carry guns. That is my choice though based on my criteria of reliability over anything else. You choose whatever round you want.
    I am glad you clarified a few things. This type of training to someone not all that familiar with it can be overwhelming. Some think their little .380 can handle the job, others understand that may not be the truth. Some will say that this will never happen, the stats say so, so I do not need a larger weapon. While most would be correct with these statements, what about the folks in CO in that theater, or any other mass shooting.

    With out getting to far into weapon choices, I would like to get into mindset and training choices. The mindset to act, to do something IMO is the best with a situation like this. You can at least take the focus off innocents and get the BG to react to you. Not something most want to do, but something that conceal carriers should think about.

    Training for something like an active shooter is more in depth than mindset. Not more important, just more in depth. Training for this will take you out of your comfort zone for sure. The video gives you a small look inside some of the training necessary to prevail.

    In saying this, I am not advocating mandatory training. I think a responsible citizen should do this on their own. You can either be an asset to society or a liability. JMO...

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    Just like everything else people want an easy goal so they train for the "Average" encounter.

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    Remember to that this is IF they chose to intervene. Many would not. It would not be from fear some it would be a choice of protecting family, self preservation "not my fight" and some may even decide my skill/gear is not up to this.

    You guys internet is a lot better than mine I am sure. I have heard that the theater gunman had head to toe ballistic armor and others said it was a simple tac carrier vest and knee/shin guards. Is there a link anyone has? Just wondered.

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    Colorado Shooter Bought Tactical Gear From Local Company Online | FOX2now.com

    It was just a ballistic nylon tac vest.

    I will intervene. It is what I am, been a cop too long running to the sound of gunfire. I could not live with myself if know I could have saved people, and did not. I will obviously take care of family first. I always carry a fighting gun, and I know my skills are up to task. I had to laugh the other day because I was being lazy and only carrying my Glock 31C and 2 extra mags.

    If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.
    Sun Tzu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
    Colorado Shooter Bought Tactical Gear From Local Company Online | FOX2now.com

    It was just a ballistic nylon tac vest.

    I will intervene. It is what I am, been a cop too long running to the sound of gunfire. I could not live with myself if know I could have saved people, and did not. I will obviously take care of family first. I always carry a fighting gun, and I know my skills are up to task. I had to laugh the other day because I was being lazy and only carrying my Glock 31C and 2 extra mags.



    Sun Tzu
    Thanks for the link. I to would intervene. I know my skills are up to task as well. Some might call it a pound foolish, but his violence, would beget greater violence from me.

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