Thread: The overhand method

I suppose it depends on the gun and how easily the slide racks.The majority of what I've shot is the 1911 with a good bit of a Beretta and Smith 3rd Gen. so they rack easily.

I've prefered the pinch from the rear,although I do use the hand over on occasion.If you look at his hand,he's covering the ejection port.While it's really no big deal charging the gun,it's not good any other time in my mind.If you're doing a tap/rack your hand or fingers can hinder ejection of the faulty round,and some slides are aweful short to get ahead of the port without risk of muzzling the side of your palm.When reloading,I hit the slidestop because it's faster for me.Instead of passing your grip to go up and over,you trip it as you're reaquiring the grip.Even if you had to pull a quick shot,you aren't shooting one handed with the other hand having a chance to be hit by the slide.I believe Murphy strikes at the worst possible time.When I shot alot of matches,you didn't make safe covering the port either,a few people have taken shrapnel to the hand when the primer was set off by an extender ejector.IIRC the 38Super was the worst for that.

That method is certainly viable,I've just never taken to it as well.On a gun without sculpted and smooth sights,like back when Novak was the first,I've lost skin on factory sights and finished a match with a bloody gun and hand.That sucks.Of course today the sights are everywhere,but I still use the factory GI type blade that came on the gun and they can take a chunk out of you.Since the economy tanked on my line of work about 10 years ago,I can't justify the machining and cost of changing what already works.

Originally Posted by rex

I suppose it depends on the gun and how easily the slide racks.The majority of what I've shot is the 1911 with a good bit of a Beretta and Smith 3rd Gen. so they rack easily.

I've prefered the pinch from the rear,although I do use the hand over on occasion.If you look at his hand,he's covering the ejection port.While it's really no big deal charging the gun,it's not good any other time in my mind.If you're doing a tap/rack your hand or fingers can hinder ejection of the faulty round,and some slides are aweful short to get ahead of the port without risk of muzzling the side of your palm.When reloading,I hit the slidestop because it's faster for me.Instead of passing your grip to go up and over,you trip it as you're reaquiring the grip.Even if you had to pull a quick shot,you aren't shooting one handed with the other hand having a chance to be hit by the slide.I believe Murphy strikes at the worst possible time.When I shot alot of matches,you didn't make safe covering the port either,a few people have taken shrapnel to the hand when the primer was set off by an extender ejector.IIRC the 38Super was the worst for that.

That method is certainly viable,I've just never taken to it as well.

Dave Spaulding teaches the sling shot method you describe. I will be taking his course in May 2013. I have always used the over the top method, because it works with everything keeping things simple and consistent. I do not compete, so my instruction has always been geared toward self defense. Thanks for sharing.

No problem,what's important is what works best for you,not somebody else.Everybody touts the high thumbs as the Holy Grail of grips,but it does nothing better for me.I've shot all types of handguns so I use a generic grip that's automatic.I've never put the safety on by shooting low thumb,but I make my safety go on and off with the pressure I want because the factory is all over the place with it,some go one way easy and hard the other and some are hard or easy both ways.Shooting bigbore revolvers will cure you fast of a high thumb also,a Smith type cylender latch will eat your thumb good.Different subject,but goes to show what works best for you is the important part.

Originally Posted by rex

No problem,what's important is what works best for you,not somebody else.Everybody touts the high thumbs as the Holy Grail of grips,but it does nothing better for me.I've shot all types of handguns so I use a generic grip that's automatic.I've never put the safety on by shooting low thumb,but I make my safety go on and off with the pressure I want because the factory is all over the place with it,some go one way easy and hard the other and some are hard or easy both ways.Shooting bigbore revolvers will cure you fast of a high thumb also,a Smith type cylender latch will eat your thumb good.Different subject,but goes to show what works best for you is the important part.

Yea, most of the time as instructors we give a starting point and ask for an open mind. If we can get that, we are all set. From there people tend to make up there own mind. One size does not always fit all, at least thats what I have found. However Over the top works with all autos and can pretty much be done for all problems.

I rack from the back of the slide as my hands are huge and even my Trojan looks small in them.

He had some valid points that I am looking to incorporate into my style, I shoot a 1911 and hitting the slide stop is what I've always done, it works for me and it's fast. On other guns, I agree with him wholeheartedly (such as the FNP .45), good video, glad you posted.

Harry.

I know we have disagreed on this in the past. On the platforms I have more time with, 1911, H&K I always used the slide stop as it is large and designed for that purpose, besides being faster. On Glocks I find myself favoring the over the top method. On auto's I use a thumbs forward grip, that for me requires the least adjustment between revolvers and auto's. Thumbs forward also works well shooting a 1911 that you need to ride the safety on.

Over the top does offer the advantage that it works every time and compensates for lose of fine motor skills.

The overhand method has become even more popular nowadays. I try to be consistent in it's use I do find myself slowing down more when I use a handgun like the Beretta 92 or anything with that style slide mounted safety. It is very easy when using this technique or the sling shot method to engage the safety when not meaning to.

The method I use to overcome it is to grasp underneath the safety levers and over extend my release to make sure it clears them. Some instructors and competition shooters are using the off hand thumb on the slide stop and letting the slide go forward that way.

As stated whichever works for you, just do it consistently.

Originally Posted by Nanuk

Harry.

I know we have disagreed on this in the past. On the platforms I have more time with, 1911, H&K I always used the slide stop as it is large and designed for that purpose, besides being faster. On Glocks I find myself favoring the over the top method. On auto's I use a thumbs forward grip, that for me requires the least adjustment between revolvers and auto's. Thumbs forward also works well shooting a 1911 that you need to ride the safety on.

Over the top does offer the advantage that it works every time and compensates for lose of fine motor skills.

Yea we have lol. The difference is that you put the time and effort to make your style second nature, Most do not. A lot of folks will carry different weapons depending on the flavor of the season, maybe only training with one of their weapon systems. I know we both agree that the over the top method works on every auto loader, which is why I advocate it so strongly, and practice what I preach...

Tacman,thank you for pointing out the slide mounted safety issue.That's one of the reasons I stopped using it,but it's been years since I've pulled out the Beretta and totally forgot.2nd dumbest place for a safety I think,but it does simplify engineering and production.

Originally Posted by rex

Tacman,thank you for pointing out the slide mounted safety issue.That's one of the reasons I stopped using it,but it's been years since I've pulled out the Beretta and totally forgot.2nd dumbest place for a safety I think,but it does simplify engineering and production.

Hey Rex, take a look at the video again. Pincus talks about what T-man was talking about, and demonstrates on the berreta.

I watched it,but he reinforces my opinion.The 1911 right before it I can see with some people with smaller hands than me,but....both it and the Berreta aren't so different.If you watch him he inserts a mag,brings his other hand past a firing grip or a semblance of it,racks the slide,and is one handed with the gun pointed to an adversaries' manhood basically,maybe a gutshot up close.Instead of wasting all that time going up and over,slip the off hand up the grip as you'd aquire a 2 hand grip (whether you do or not) and thumb the slidelock.He's wasting time going past it to overhand it.As you thumb the slide closed,you can also roll the gun quicker into a better area for a point/instinct shot.Another bad possibility is if you do as he does and need to squeeze off that shot right now,situations can block that hand from clearing the slide or sight,causing a shortstroke and a bit of self inflicted pain.

Now,up close and real personal,the overhand can be the only viable choice because you do need a little room for the rear pinch,but the situation dictates the required method.I'm not opposed to or don't use the overhand method,I just don't strictly stick to it.Another situation overhand is the only way is a speedrock,you just aren't going to do a rear pinch there on a stoppage.One handed scenarios he touched on are a whole new deal,that's part of the reason I still have the GI type blades,much easier to snag than the rear of the ejection port.

Really,both methods need to be ingrained,this instance calls for one and another calls for the other,it's all about where the gun is in relationship to you and what timeframe needs to be met.Just my view,I use both but the rear pinch is what I do most.