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  1. #1
    Helios's Avatar
    Helios is offline Junior Member
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    Question XDm9 sight issues

    I consider myself a pretty good and accurate shot when it comes to most weapons. I always qualified well in the military. I shoot a variety of pistols/revolvers in different calibers and I pretty much hit what I shoot. But this pistol for some reason, shoots high and right. I don't know if its because it is a new weapon and my first composite pistol with a little different feel or me. I admit that I have only put 200 rounds through the gun and probably should put more. I thought I would ask you guys first. Has anyone had this kind of issue with this model or XD? If so, what did you do about it? Will SA help out or tell me that I'm on my own in this situation?

  2. #2
    ajlandis is offline Junior Member
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    You're not alone. Mine has always shot high. That's the concensus between me and three of my buddies. With a six o'clock hold, it is 2-2 1/2" high at 17 yards. My windage is correct, though. I've tried four different types of ammo and they all shoot to the same area. Dang thing is, it shoots them into really small groups. Just too high. I wonder if they make replacement front sights. It'd be nice to be able to do a swap and be on target. That and a lighter trigger would make this a dream to shoot with.

  3. #3
    DJ Niner's Avatar
    DJ Niner is online now HGF Forum Moderator
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    ajlandis, if you're shooting well (defined as nice small round groups on almost every attempt), then go ahead and make a windage sight adjustment to get the left/right closer to center. If the groups are more scattered, then practice your shooting fundamentals until the groups are small enough that you can confidently say the sights are "off" for you and your choice of ammo, THEN make the adjustment. No need to suffer; it may be the type of ammo they used at the factory, a difference in your grip, or a simple tolerance stack issue causing the bad placement.

    It's nice when a gun comes from the factory already sighted-in for the user, but also fairly rare, in my experience. They get close, but that's about the best we can hope for.

  4. #4
    ajlandis is offline Junior Member
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    The windage is dead-on. Elevation is the issue. Groups are usually at or under 2" at 17 yards. Do you know any fixes on the elevation? If I filed down the rear sights, the dots won't line up right. Plus, I'm not crazy about filing on them in the first place.

  5. #5
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    My mistake ajlandis; my reply should have been addressed to Helios. the original poster.

    As far as your elevation issues ajlandis, you are right in thinking that filing down the rear is probably not the best way to get where you need to go. Let me see if I can find some different height fronts/rears for the XD/XDm guns in my various catalogs. If I can find anything, I'll post it here.

  6. #6
    ajlandis is offline Junior Member
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    I've tried everything I can think of to get this gun on target. 600 rounds or so downrange. Many different types of ammo and weights of bullets. Four different guys, all shooting with the same results. Finally decided to take it to a local gun shop/range and ask a rangemasters opinion. He wouldn't even shoot it for me. He just said that with fixed sights, you have to compensate for where it hits. So if it hits 3" high, I need to learn to aim 3" low all the time. I was shocked. I asked a second employee if he agreed, and he did. I wasn't too happy at that point. I went home and called springfield, just to see what they would say. I told the lady on the phone how it shot. She said that was completely unacceptable. She asked for me for my emal so she could send me a shipping label so that I could get the gun back to them. She told me they wanted to make it right. There was no hesitation, no checking with anyone else. I told her what it was doing and what all I'd tried. She immediatley wanted the gun sent in so it could be corrected. No two ways about it. She said it simply wasn't acceptable to be shooting that much off poa. So, it's on its way. I'll let you know how it goes. She said it could be six weeks or so. We'll see.
    As a side bar, I also have a Dan Wesson CBOB .45 that was shooting even higher. I went through the same hassle with it, trying to figure what was wrong. I also had it with me when I went to the range. I think the guys there just figured I couldn' shoot worth a hoot. For the record, I have many pistols, and most of them shoot dead on, or very close to it. I was convinced it wasn't me causing the high poi on these two. I also called DW, to see if I "just have to deal with it, and compensate for the high poi". Scott at DW, didn't hesitate. He said it sounded like I need a .080 high front sight. He said they all ship with the .040 as a standard, but they also have a .060 and a .080. I told him how high it shot and he said, 'yep, you just need the higher of the three we carry. Send in the blade you have, and I'll send you back the high one that you need.' He said that the lower one is usually right, but sometimes, the other two are needed. Not uncommon. So, needless to say, I'm not real impressed with the 'help' I got from the guys at the store/range. For as quickly as the two service reps offered a fix, I would have expected a more educated response from a rangemaster/dealer than 'just aim lower'. And these guys sell guns to people everyday.

  7. #7
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    How are you sighting the pistol? Are you floating the target or trying a center mass? Also how do any other XD owners sighting? I had an X9 a few years back (briefly)that unless I used the top of the blade I would shoot high if the target was under 25 yards away. At 25 yards it was fine. I come to the conclusion that the weapon was sighted at 25 yards so of course it would be high at a closer distance. I'm not sure if that is actually the answer but in my case it made sense.

    Just curious
    Last edited by DevilsJohnson; 05-23-2009 at 01:11 AM.

  8. #8
    ajlandis is offline Junior Member
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    I tried everything, but my normal hold was a "poa" hold. Lined up the top of the front blade with the top of the rear ears, and put the top of the front blade exactly where I wanted to hit. I also tried a six oclock hold, aiming at the bottom of the bull. This made the impacts closer to the center (essentially by just aiming artificially low), but it's not how springfield says the gun should be aimed. They call for a point of impact aim, and it should be on target at 25 yards. That's in the manual. As for as anything closer than that, I don't believe the bullet drops enough to make any noticable difference in poi at any shorter ranges.

  9. #9
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajlandis View Post
    I tried everything, but my normal hold was a "poa" hold. Lined up the top of the front blade with the top of the rear ears, and put the top of the front blade exactly where I wanted to hit. I also tried a six oclock hold, aiming at the bottom of the bull. This made the impacts closer to the center (essentially by just aiming artificially low), but it's not how springfield says the gun should be aimed. They call for a point of impact aim, and it should be on target at 25 yards. That's in the manual. As for as anything closer than that, I don't believe the bullet drops enough to make any noticable difference in poi at any shorter ranges.
    I think you have everything correct, except maybe that last line.

    If the bullets are starting out below the line-of-sight, but are ending up above line-of-sight at 17 yards, then they MUST be crossing line-of-sight somewhere between 0 and 17 yards, and whatever that point is, the gun is zeroed at that distance. It's not about drop, it's technically about the faulty sights causing the barrel to be angled upward excessively, making the bullets appear to "rise" (but you knew that).

    I'd guess POI and POA will match perfectly at about 4-6 yards. And eventually, of course, gravity will drag the bullet back down past the line-of-sight, and it will technically also be zeroed at the distance this occurs (wild guess in your case, 80-90 yards).

    If we knew the exact distance from the top of your front sight to the center of the barrel, the weight/velocity/drag coefficient of the bullet, and the amount of POA/POI error at a given distance, we could plug the data into a ballistics program and get exact figures for both zero distances for your gun. Probably not particularly helpful in your case, but it might be interesting, though.

  10. #10
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    I cobbled-together a test case, based on some guesses and book data for a mythical 9mm practice load (147 grain at 900 FPS) in my Glock 26.

    Plug in the numbers here:
    http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.0.cgi

    and this is what you get (broken into two parts for easy posting/viewing):





    With this load and gun, shooting 2.4 inches high at 18 yards, it is zeroed at 3 yards and 88-89 yards.

  11. #11
    ajlandis is offline Junior Member
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Niner View Post
    I think you have everything correct, except maybe that last line.
    I agree completely. I was just casually mentioning the fact that at closer ranges, all guns will shoot much more similar, regardless of the ballistic characteristics, no matter what they actually are going to do at longer ranges. In other words, any bullet will be impacting relatively close to poa if you are at a short enough distance. I felt I needed to mention it to blow off a bit of steam. It's one of the things the 'rangemaster' had asked me. "Ok, it shoots high as hell at 17 yards. How's it shoot at 7?" Me: Um, about 1/2" to 1" high. Him: "Oh, well your gun must just be set up for closer ranges." Then he tried to school me about how dramatically a bullet drops within 25 yards. That's when I had to argue with him and say that there was no way a bullet should ever be 4" away from the line of sight within 25 yards. He insisted that bullets do drop that much. I disagreed. He re-stated that my gun was shooting good at close ranges- longer ranges have to be off target due to the bullet drop. I reminded him that the poi climbed with distance, not dropped. He didn't seem to get what I was saying. He'd already wrote me off as unworthy of an intelligent arguement. It was essentially a one-way conversation. What made it hard for me is the fact that I am an absolute ballistics nerd. (PS you're turining me on with the eskimo chart, btw. ) For him to use ballistic references inaccurately to tell me my gun was really fine was too much for me. I admit I've just gotten into handguns in the last couple of years, so I don't claim too be an expert. That's why I asked for an "expert" to shoot my handguns in question- to eliminate me from the equation. But I've been an avid rifle/target shooter for a long time, and I know how bullets and sights work. Ok, rant over.

  12. #12
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Well, it sounds like you definitely know what's going on here, and it also sounds like he's "full of it."

    Weird that the gun shoots so far off; hope the factory can get it corrected for you. Keep us updated?

    I'll not go into the "turned-on by ballistics chart" area...

  13. #13
    ajlandis is offline Junior Member
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    My wife has actually asked if I'd prefer ballistics talk in bed instead of dirty talk. Bless her heart. I think she was joking, but she's opened the door to a fantasy I can't get out of my mind now. Thing is, she'd probably get the sectional density of one of my favorite bulets wrong and ruin the mood for me. Oh, well. Some things are probably just better left unexplored.

    As for the guns, I've got the xdm to the factory. Just waiting. The front sight for the cbob went out in the mail wednesday. Thursday I found out the rate for stamps went up a couple weeks ago, so I should be receiving the sight back from the post office soon. I'll get it sent back out and hopefully get the replacement soon. I'll let you guys know how things go.

  14. #14
    ajlandis is offline Junior Member
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    Eight days ago was when I spoke to the lady at springfield about my problem. Seven days ago I sent the gun back. She said it would probably be four to six weeks to get it back. We've had a three day weekend since. I came home from work today and my gun was waiting for me. Concerned that it didn't make it to the right place, I looked for a sign that it had been tinkered with. Nothing was noticable. There was an invoice that simply stated 'sight changed- no charge'. Still concerned that it hadn't been looked at, I took it out back for a few magazines. It shoots dead-on! Just a wee bit high at 15 yards and right on the money at 25. Awesome! I was hoping for good customer service, but this blows me away. They overnighted it back to me, which, I believe, they didn't have to do. I think they are allowed to ship it standard mail. They fixed the gun with no hesitation or fight, and they did it in unbelievable time. Their service has assured that I will make another springfield purchase in the future. I am a very satisfied customer!
    And to hell with salesmen that say you have to live with a gun that doesn't shoot where it should.

  15. #15
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Outstanding news on all fronts!

  16. #16
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    tekhead1219 is offline Senior Member
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    Great news. Nice dealing with a reputable customer service department.

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