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  1. #1
    GCBHM is online now Member
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    Smith & Wesson M&P...REALLY???

    "In the design of the M&P, we considered the needs of military and law enforcement from every conceivable angle. No other polymer pistol offers this combination of versatility, durability and safety. ALL BACKED BY OUR SMITH & WESSON LIFETIME SERVICE POLICY."

    Now I love this line of pistols from S&W, but I don't think they can truly lay claim to the bold statement.

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  3. #2
    shaolin's Avatar
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    It is a nice pistol and I love my 9mm M&P

  4. #3
    GCBHM is online now Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaolin View Post
    It is a nice pistol and I love my 9mm M&P
    Oh I agree!! I have the Shield, and have owned the 9 and 45. Great pistols!!! Love them! Just that little claim. "NO OTHER polymer pistol offers this combination of..." I don't know about that!

  5. #4
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    Well, their polymer frames are reinforced with metal... Glocks are not and Kahrs are not and pretty sure XD's arn't either. Very strong frame design.

    That's about the biggest structural design difference.

    Versatility would be the ability to get most models with an optional external safety... not all manufacturers offer this feature either.

    So, quite possibly... no other manufacturers do offer that combination. No different than the "Glock Perfection" advertising slogan... which we all know isn't 100% true.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAPnRACK View Post
    Well, their polymer frames are reinforced with metal... Glocks are not and Kahrs are not and pretty sure XD's arn't either. Very strong frame design.

    That's about the biggest structural design difference.

    Versatility would be the ability to get most models with an optional external safety... not all manufacturers offer this feature either.

    So, quite possibly... no other manufacturers do offer that combination. No different than the "Glock Perfection" advertising slogan... which we all know isn't 100% true.
    Yeah. Nothing on this side of existence is "perfection", but Glock does come close.

  7. #6
    GCBHM is online now Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAPnRACK View Post
    Well, their polymer frames are reinforced with metal... Glocks are not and Kahrs are not and pretty sure XD's arn't either. Very strong frame design.

    That's about the biggest structural design difference.

    Versatility would be the ability to get most models with an optional external safety... not all manufacturers offer this feature either.

    So, quite possibly... no other manufacturers do offer that combination. No different than the "Glock Perfection" advertising slogan... which we all know isn't 100% true.
    Maybe so. I do really like the M&P line. Great pistols.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettatoter View Post
    Yeah. Nothing on this side of existence is "perfection", but Glock does come close.
    This is true. The closest I've seen thus far.

  9. #8
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    Love my M&P 45c. Had a problem at one time. S&W went above and beyond. They do stand behind their line. Glocks are....for somebody else.

  10. #9
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    As I look at it, the M&P is a worked over Glock. I love my M&P 9 and 9c, I keep looking at a G19 and I don't get one because I already have two of them (for all intents and purposes). I have the Glock 21SF and 41 and will not trade them as they shoot a lot softer than my 1911's. I know I don't need a Glock 19, but then I don't NEED a lot of things.

  11. #10
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I have five M&P's, one of which is their fine M&P 22. All of them are great shooters and I have put over 4000 rounds through my M&P 9 Pro Series 4.25". It is a little sensitive to dirty magazines and dirt in general from going too long between cleanings (5-600 seems to be the area where you start seeing some failures to feed on occasion). Keep them clean and they run great. And quite accurately, I might add.

    Glocks are a bit more forgiving in the dirt category, mostly because of the utter simplicity. So the reliability edge goes to them.... of course, keep that M&P clean and the edge diminishes markedly. My four centerfire M&P's do live in my carry stable with three of them on stand by (this means can be called up at any given time).

    Getting a Glock or an M&P means you have purchased something from the top rung of combat pistols. You'd be well served by either of these.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I have five M&P's, one of which is their fine M&P 22. All of them are great shooters and I have put over 4000 rounds through my M&P 9 Pro Series 4.25". It is a little sensitive to dirty magazines and dirt in general from going too long between cleanings (5-600 seems to be the area where you start seeing some failures to feed on occasion). Keep them clean and they run great. And quite accurately, I might add.

    Glocks are a bit more forgiving in the dirt category, mostly because of the utter simplicity. So the reliability edge goes to them.... of course, keep that M&P clean and the edge diminishes markedly. My four centerfire M&P's do live in my carry stable with three of them on stand by (this means can be called up at any given time).

    Getting a Glock or an M&P means you have purchased something from the top rung of combat pistols. You'd be well served by either of these.
    I have to admit you got me thinking about that 4" M&P 45! I had the 4.5" and liked it. Even better after the APEX firing pin, but I ultimately traded it for another Glock. I've got my eye on that 4" though!

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt45 View Post
    As I look at it, the M&P is a worked over Glock. I love my M&P 9 and 9c, I keep looking at a G19 and I don't get one because I already have two of them (for all intents and purposes). I have the Glock 21SF and 41 and will not trade them as they shoot a lot softer than my 1911's. I know I don't need a Glock 19, but then I don't NEED a lot of things.
    I'm right there with ya! Don't need anything else, but uh...

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt45 View Post
    As I look at it, the M&P is a worked over Glock. I love my M&P 9 and 9c, I keep looking at a G19 and I don't get one because I already have two of them (for all intents and purposes). I have the Glock 21SF and 41 and will not trade them as they shoot a lot softer than my 1911's. I know I don't need a Glock 19, but then I don't NEED a lot of things.
    I bought a new gen3 Glock 21SF last November and for some reason after getting it home and thinking about it, found I didn't care for it. What I really liked better was the gen4 Glock 21. It measured just a slight bit smaller in the grip than the G21SF and with the new grip texturing, felt so much better. So I boiught a gen4 G21 and sold the G21SF on consignment. I only lost $35 which is not much to lose when you realize you made a mistake.

    My gen4 G17 and G22 both feel great in my hands and I shoot them well. For my hands, what Glock has done with the gen4 grip size, texturing, and pull length works great.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
    I have to admit you got me thinking about that 4" M&P 45! I had the 4.5" and liked it. Even better after the APEX firing pin, but I ultimately traded it for another Glock. I've got my eye on that 4" though!
    I have three .45ACP pistols (Kimber Custom, gen4 Glock 21, and the M&P 45 4"), and the 4" M&P has the best feel and balance of the lot for me. Have to ask... you put an Apex firing pin in your M&P? Never heard of that being done. Why did you decide to do this? Most people replace trigger components, sears, springs, and striker safety blocks in their M&P's.

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    I have 3 current, 2 former, and 1 future M&Ps. I find that they, my (former) 1911, and my Kel-techs point naturally for me. The Glock and Revolvers I have to relearn my grip. So for me, the M&Ps are top carry guns. And my 45c is THE most comfortable of them to carry (this may change when the shield arrives)
    As for advertising, I take them ALL with a salt block.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I bought a new gen3 Glock 21SF last November and for some reason after getting it home and thinking about it, found I didn't care for it. What I really liked better was the gen4 Glock 21. It measured just a slight bit smaller in the grip than the G21SF and with the new grip texturing, felt so much better. So I boiught a gen4 G21 and sold the G21SF on consignment. I only lost $35 which is not much to lose when you realize you made a mistake.

    I have found the same to be true! I just like the Gen4s b/c of the little tweaks Glock made. It truly makes them a totally different pistol.My gen4 G17 and G22 both feel great in my hands and I shoot them well. For my hands, what Glock has done with the gen4 grip size, texturing, and pull length works great.
    The size difference in the grips with the MBS and the texturing makes all the difference in the world! This is why I went back to Glock. Before I was put on the Gen4, I was carrying the Sig P226, which is a great pistol, but the Glock just makes more sense for CC.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I have three .45ACP pistols (Kimber Custom, gen4 Glock 21, and the M&P 45 4"), and the 4" M&P has the best feel and balance of the lot for me. Have to ask... you put an Apex firing pin in your M&P? Never heard of that being done. Why did you decide to do this? Most people replace trigger components, sears, springs, and striker safety blocks in their M&P's.
    Actually, it was my cousin's recommendation. He is a local cop and he carries the M&P 45 4.5", and he changed the pin in his. It changed the trigger pull trememdously. It was so smooth, almost like a hair trigger, and it changed the way the pistol performed to the point that I almost cried when I traded it. It was just a little large for a CCW, which is why I am curious as to how your 4" compares to the size of your Glock 23. I carry the Gen4 G19 now, with factory night sites, and that pistol is like it was made to fit my hands custom, but I love the feel of that M&P 45. I just wanted it to be a touch smaller.

  19. #18
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    Somewhere I have a pic of my 45c on top of my G19 & vice versa. The size is negligible at best. Only real difference TO ME is the Glock grip angle, which in a holster, pokes my ribs more. Although this ALSO tucks it in tighter for comcealment.

  20. #19
    GCBHM is online now Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by niadhf View Post
    Somewhere I have a pic of my 45c on top of my G19 & vice versa. The size is negligible at best. Only real difference TO ME is the Glock grip angle, which in a holster, pokes my ribs more. Although this ALSO tucks it in tighter for comcealment.
    Thanks for the input! I'm really torn here on whether to trade my 17 for the 45c or just wait a bit and buy one out right. Decisions!

  21. #20
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
    Actually, it was my cousin's recommendation. He is a local cop and he carries the M&P 45 4.5", and he changed the pin in his. It changed the trigger pull trememdously. It was so smooth, almost like a hair trigger, and it changed the way the pistol performed to the point that I almost cried when I traded it. It was just a little large for a CCW, which is why I am curious as to how your 4" compares to the size of your Glock 23. I carry the Gen4 G19 now, with factory night sites, and that pistol is like it was made to fit my hands custom, but I love the feel of that M&P 45. I just wanted it to be a touch smaller.
    Almost sounds like your cousin changed the sear and not the firing pin on his M&P. My M&P 45 4" has the Apex hard sear, which is part of their DCAEK, and it breaks almost like a 1911... think a small glass rod.

    Now as for the size difference between the G23 and the M&P 45 4", I just went down to my basement to compare the two to one another (I have another gen3 G23 in my safe). They are the same length with the exception of the beavertail on the M&P, which does extend a little more to the rear than does the one on the G23. Of course, the M&P is wider due to the larger caliber (the G23 is the same size as the G19). The height of the two guns is different with the M&P being 5/8 of an inch taller. So there you have it. The most noticeable size difference is in the height.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Almost sounds like your cousin changed the sear and not the firing pin on his M&P. My M&P 45 4" has the Apex hard sear, which is part of their DCAEK, and it breaks almost like a 1911... think a small glass rod.
    I was thinking the striker boll was replaced with the USB was what was replaced, as that tends to smooth out the gritty feel of the Stock block.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Almost sounds like your cousin changed the sear and not the firing pin on his M&P. My M&P 45 4" has the Apex hard sear, which is part of their DCAEK, and it breaks almost like a 1911... think a small glass rod.

    Now as for the size difference between the G23 and the M&P 45 4", I just went down to my basement to compare the two to one another (I have another gen3 G23 in my safe). They are the same length with the exception of the beavertail on the M&P, which does extend a little more to the rear than does the one on the G23. Of course, the M&P is wider due to the larger caliber (the G23 is the same size as the G19). The height of the two guns is different with the M&P being 5/8 of an inch taller. So there you have it. The most noticeable size difference is in the height.
    YES! I'm sorry...it was the sear. For some reason I've got firing pin stuck in my head, but it was the sear. Not enough of a size difference to really notice when carrying I'm guessing. Thanks for that input!!! And you're right, the break is very much like a smooth 1911.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by niadhf View Post
    I was thinking the striker boll was replaced with the USB was what was replaced, as that tends to smooth out the gritty feel of the Stock block.
    Replacing the factory striker block safety with the USB from Apex is the best way to remove that gritty pre-travel. The difference is astounding. All four of my centerfire M&P's have at least this mod (two of them have the Apex DCAEK installed but with the factory OEM trigger spring).

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
    YES! I'm sorry...it was the sear. For some reason I've got firing pin stuck in my head, but it was the sear. Not enough of a size difference to really notice when carrying I'm guessing. Thanks for that input!!! And you're right, the break is very much like a smooth 1911.
    Yep, I was really surprised with the difference that hard sear makes. Of course you still have the pre-travel but that's not a problem at all for me. I'm used to that in both my M&P's and my Glocks.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
    YES! I'm sorry...it was the sear. For some reason I've got firing pin stuck in my head, but it was the sear. Not enough of a size difference to really notice when carrying I'm guessing. Thanks for that input!!! And you're right, the break is very much like a smooth 1911.
    What I noticed mostly between the Glock 23 and the M&P 45 4" was the additional width and to a little lesser degree, the longer grip. And then there is the weight difference. Those 230 grain .45's do account for an increase in weight, especially when you consider the larger slide and barrel. But still not a major concern by any stretch. I use a Comp-Tac belt holster with my M&P 45 and it sits just fine with it. I also use the small backstrap because I don't have large hands. Fit is great and the pull length is also very good. Trigger pull weight comes in at 5 pounds and oh... that crisp break. Factory trigger was 8 pounds 5 ounces and the DCAEK kit took it to 6 1/2 pounds. I replaced the Apex trigger spring with the factory unit to get the pull weight down to where I have my other carry guns. I did the same thing to my M&P 9c.

    I have a gen4 Glock 21 which I really like but my M&P 45 4" beats it in the fit and feel department.

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