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  1. #1
    ak49 is offline Junior Member
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    M&p thumb safety

    Does anyone have any info on when the 9s and 40s with thumb safetys will be shipped out

  2. #2
    dalesky's Avatar
    dalesky is offline Junior Member
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    Love mine as is

    I have the 9mm 'original' that many police departments are using. You do have a sight hole to see if a round is chambered, which is something. The cop who taught me gun safety told me to keep this weapon loaded but unchambered. In other words, when you put in a magazine the gun will not fire unless you chamber a round manually. That's my safety. I recommend getting one now, because it is a great gun just as it is.
    Sorry, off topic, but I just had to say that I like mine very much. Have had no issues with at all, no way, to time.
    Dale

  3. #3
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    Dale, with all due respect to your cop buddy who thought you about gun safety, he is giving you very poor advice. If you are not comfortable carrying a gun with a round in the chamber, then you really owe it to yourself to find a different weapon.

    I noticed in another post that your friend is a firearms instructor. I am a retired police officer and firearms instructor and I have never once heard any instructor recommend carrying with an empty chamber.

  4. #4
    TheReaper's Avatar
    TheReaper is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak49 View Post
    Does anyone have any info on when the 9s and 40s with thumb safetys will be shipped out
    When is this supposed to happen.

  5. #5
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    The lack of a safety on the M&Ps is just why I do not carry mine. After evaluating the safety of the trigger alone, I was not comfortable with having a round chambered in the pistol. I am in the process of replacing my M&P 9c and my Glock 36 because of my lack of confidence in the safety of those pistols in my hands.

    Ptarmigan, there could be some case for carrying the M&P, or other pistol without a round chambered. I do not think it is ideal, but neither is it the incapacitation that everyone believes. In the time one can reach one's pistol and move the safety, one can also chamber a round. I have seen people highly skilled in this maneuver in the military. Even moderately skilled shooters can do it with efficiency and ease. The one thing I do not like about it is giving up the tactical advantage of surprise in some situations.

    So many people think that the average armed citizen is going to be in "quick draw" scenarios. If you read the "Armed Citizen" column in The American Rifleman you will find that there seem to be no real quick draw incidents. People seem to have time to obtain their weapons and use them without quick draw. The average armed citizen is not going to face the confrontation emergencies that the police experience. In almost any situation one can pull one's weapon in advance, ala Wyatt Earp and most police officers.

    It is possible that some people, who cannot drill sufficiently would be better served by not having rounds chambered in a semi-auto pistol; on their persons or at home. Personally, I would recommend revolvers for those people, but if pistols are what they have, then they can learn to quickly chamber a round on demand.

    If one is carrying a weapon, or even leaving it in the house for self defense, firearm safety must be dealt with every day. The use of the firearm for self defense may never happen; but one must maintain firearm safety at every moment.

  6. #6
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    I stand by what I said. Having observed many shooters in stress situations, I have yet to meet anyone so calm and fast that they could draw, rack the slide and engage a threat in the time required. My main point is that a law enforcement FI teaching people to carry with an empty chamber either did not pay attention in class, thinks he knows better, and most certainly has never had to draw and fire in the line of duty. I could be wrong, but I still say that anyone not comfortable carrying a semi-auto with a round in the chamber should reconsider his/her choice of pistol.

    Many LE agencies have policies prohibiting the manual safety to be engaged if one's duty weapon has one. Again, many shooters will forget to disengage it under stress. I have seen this in person and in video tapes. I know of one such incident that ended very badly for the good guy.

  7. #7
    Willy D's Avatar
    Willy D is offline Member
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    I am not comfortable carrying either one of my XD's with a loaded chamber, so that is why my carry weapon at the moment is a DAO Smith & Wesson .38 revolver....

    I am looking into a different carry weapon as the snubbie is hard for me to shoot and stay on target..I am looking at getting a small semi-auto 9mm that I can manually decock and keep one in the chamber DA first round, SA after that...

    Sorry to be off topic

    Willy

  8. #8
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    I carry a DAO S&W most of the time too. They are great guns, but you are right, they are not easy to shoot well.

    You might want to look at the S&W model 3913 (I am pretty sure that is the model number). It is a single stack 9mm with a decocker/safety. Very nice gun in my opinion.

  9. #9
    Black Metal's Avatar
    Black Metal is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willy D View Post
    I am not comfortable carrying either one of my XD's with a loaded chamber, so that is why my carry weapon at the moment is a DAO Smith & Wesson .38 revolver....

    I am looking into a different carry weapon as the snubbie is hard for me to shoot and stay on target..I am looking at getting a small semi-auto 9mm that I can manually decock and keep one in the chamber DA first round, SA after that...

    Sorry to be off topic

    Willy
    The thing that doesn't make sense about that to me is your XD has safety's the DAO Smith does not. It seems much more likely to me that you would have an AD with the Smith. All of the quality modern guns ( Glock, Kahr, M&P, XD ect) are designed for safe carry with a round chambered. With any quality holster the trigger will not be able to move while the gun is holstered. I would feel much more comfortable carrying a chambered Glock than a 1911 cocked and locked. I think manual safety's tend to give the illusion of safe, the gun can only be a safe as the person manipulating it. I like my gun to go boom when I tell it to, until then I don't touch the trigger. Thats all the safety I need.

  10. #10
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    If you wont carry with a round chambered you rather need a gun that you are comfortable with or maybe make the choice to not carry at all. The whole idea behind carrying a firearm is to have it ready if the time was to come that you need it. To have to gun and not have it ready is not safe. If you were to get into a situation where you needed that firearm you are not ready, the guy across from you is. You would have been better off without the gun being you might not get fired on being an unarmed person. Someone with a gun no matter what it's state is a lot more likely to be fired on.

    Ptarmigan's advice is well worth listening to.

  11. #11
    Aarolar's Avatar
    Aarolar is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teuthis View Post
    So many people think that the average armed citizen is going to be in "quick draw" scenarios. If you read the "Armed Citizen" column in The American Rifleman you will find that there seem to be no real quick draw incidents. .

    I can agree with this but that 1 time in one billion that you do need access to it quickly then what?

  12. #12
    Teuthis is offline Member
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    I billion is a thousand million. You are not going to live that long. 1 billion is about 36 million lifetimes. It is best to practice and be established for what you are actually going to encounter as an armed citizen. I have found that listening to that little voice inside me is my best defense.

    If you ever have the one in a billion experience you will be most likely dead anyway. A close range, quick draw shoot-out will very likely leave everyone dead or dying. I put my efforts into being ultra watchful and alert; and I have no compunction in pulling out my weapon if I hear that little voice.

    I think any carry weapon should have a round chambered, or be a loaded revolver. But weapons in the home might be unchambered for the sake of safety.

    I must disagree with Ptarmigan on one issue. Drilling is required with any weapons system. One can learn a drill to flick off a safety. It was done for years without catastrophe by police agencies. In fact, there were repeated incidents of suspects with officers' model 39's or 59,'s who were unable to fire the weapons because they were not aware of the safety on them. So things balance out.

    As to racking the slide upon drawing, I never thought that was the ideal way to charge a pistol; but it was the safest way to carry those 1911's. And I knew people who could do it with exceeding skill under any condition. But that is a specialist skill. I think anything one drills enough can become efficient. Constant drill is the key to safety and accuracy.

  13. #13
    Ptarmigan is offline Member
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    I see your point, but one of the things first cut in a lot of police budgets is firearms training. Many cops are not gun people and will not train on their own, hence counting on the officer with a manual safety on his weapon to train a lot to remember to disengage the safety is a mistake, in my opinion. Like I said, many departments now require that the safety is disengaged when the weapon is carried.

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