People do all sorts of modifications to Glocks and such and I've never felt the need to modify anything on any of my guns except the sights. However, people say all sorts of things about the Sigma trigger. Is there anyone reputable doing mods on this trigger and how much can it be (SAFELY and without affecting reliability) improved?
Thanks for any input.
There are no reputable smiths that I know of that will do trigger work on them. There was a thread over on the S&W site where a couple of guys had them down to about 31/2lbs pull.
There is no reason that a good smith could not do something good to the trigger on the Sigma..As a matter of fact a carefull owner could with a bit of effort smooth up the fire control parts and have a much better trigger pull..The fact that things get better with use shows that a bit of polishing will do wonders..I would not recomend changing springs,I tried that with a reduced striker spring and it was good for a while then I started to get light strikes..Put the original spring back and it goes bang all the time...
I keep reading about the long pull of the trigger. :shock:I have to get to the range and see if all is true. I cant wait to put some rounds down range.
Dry-fire it and you will find out before you get to the range.
I’m a Sigma advocate. Just got back from throwing 150 rounds downrange with my .VE 40.
I have had my S&W Sigma 40VE for over 1 year. I had put 1,500 rounds through it but the trigger wasn't loosening up. I sent it out for a trigger job from Tom Novak of Novak's Handgunner Outlet in Latrobe PA. He did a great job and after about 500 rounds, my Sigma now pulls at about 6lbs. compared to the 11 lbs. when I first bought it. Also, the feel is much crisper. I'm now able to shoot 3" groups at 45 feet consistently.
I'll warn you straight off the Mr. Tom Novak is a master craftsman when it comes to handguns. He is also, a really good guy. That said, his business skills are a bit off. Tom doesn't always answer his phone and will sometimes allow his phone messages to pile up. His site www.novakshandgunneroutlet.com is currently down. His number has been changed and the new number is 724-539-5530. If you can get through and make arrangements for Tom to do your work, you will not be disappointed. He added a trigger stop that reduces over travel as well. Total cost of this "Pro Trigger Job" was $105.
I have also talked to shop owners and gunsmiths in Central PA who will replace the spring for a cut down Wolf spring to lighten the pull. Note the stop screw in the back of my trigger that limits overtravel, an added plus.
True. I was touching up my sigma 9mm today and was wondering how the gun works (it's my first handgun). So i open the slide and looked inside and found out the trigger sear (resting on the back of the frame) and the striker/ hammer hook (black part in the middle of the slide) showed some wear. So i thought, maybe these parts are rubbing each other. So i got a FINE grit sandpaper and just sand a lil bit on the edges on both of those parts. then i cleaned the burrs, spray some dry lube and WOW what a surprise. The shot broke faster, seems smoother all the way w/out feeling the peak before the striker would release. I'll get a dremmel tonight and finely polish those parts :smt023
Originally Posted by bompa
Also i have read some people taking off the pig tail spring from the rear trigger group and polishing some of the metal parts in that assembly as well worked pretty great.
Step By Step Guide
** do this at your own risk**
**i'll try to post pics when i have time**
I polished the main sear from the rear assembly - held by a frame pin on the poly frame (behind the trigger). Punch that thing out and the whole assembly can be pushed from inside the mag well up or pulled up from the top of the frame. The trigger link bar is holding it so you may need to pull the trigger to let it go.
Next is a set of small punchpins that needed to be removed to access the main sear (wedge in between metal bars) and completely remove it. Once it's removed, I used a dremel tool with the (brown) polishing compund to polish it until you have mirror finish. That small little thing comes in contact with the polymer slope in the housing so smoothing out the sear (slope side, the left and right side, top side/ square part) helps.
NEXT: WARNING !! - i got this from various discussion boards about the sigma.
Removing the pig tail spring and the outer linear spring.
Okay, backtrack a bit - once you pull that assembly out, you'll notice there's a pig tail spring on the bottom held by a punch pin. remove that spring (or don't put it back after step 1 above). that is the BULK of the resistance when pulling the trigger. Now, that assembly has 3 springs. once you remove the pigtail spring, you'll notice a set of springs going up. It looks like one but its actually one OVER the other / 1 inside, one outside. the outside spring is bigger and has more resistance. REMOVE the outer spring and use the small spring only. The small spring is enough to reset the sear, which in turn reset the trigger - MIGHT suffer under extermely rapid fire but my range wouldn't allow rapid fire anyway.
Doing this WILL severely affect the trigger positively or negatively considering it is the ONLY safety this gun has. I might even put one of the linear spring back for my wife (never held a gun before) just in case her finger has the "itch" or find the 4 basic rules too diffucult.
I dry fired it a couple of times after this and man, it is sweet. the pull let off is crisp and was considerably shorter. It's smooth and probably 2-3 lbs lighter, maybe more if you do this from stock (no dry fire, no live rounds). mine has had about 100 rds of dry fire and then 165 rds of live fire, and then some more dry fire before i did this. Hopefully all is well when i go to the range next week to test it out. Doing this hopefully won't affect the striker's strength to hit the primer as it was only the trigger assembly. I dry fired mine with a piece of chopstick in the breech and boy did it fly :mrgreen:
I got this mod from the hi-point forum:
Polishing the breech ramp (POLISH - NOT SAND).
I tried to slowly rack and feed an FMJ (WWB) from the mag and it would not feed. It would only feed if you release the slide at full speed as with most autos. Then i stumbled upon a discussion at the hi point forum about how hi points have problems feeding JHP. Their solution was to polish the breech face and ramp. So i tried that and polished the ramp, sides (bottom part only, from 4-6 o'clock position) while i was doing the mods above and was pleased with the results. I can slowly feed an FMJ round nose even doing it at low speed. I haven't tried it with a JHP yet, but it seems like it would work better when i need it.
I am a paintballer and i like to do various mods to improve my gun. I am comfortable with the dremel, putting back small parts when needed, figuring out how things work and selecting which parts to work on. If you're not comfortable at all, don;t try this yourself. Also I'd recommed waiting until i get my gun tested on live rounds for the results. If it works, you just save yourself time and money to have a better working tool.
Thanks for the info!:smt023
yes thanks for the write up.
I just bought a S&W 9mm sigma last week. I have put 500 rounds through it so far. 400 of them were today. :smt023 An yes I thought about seeing if there was a way to help out with the pull on the trigger. Let us know how this all works thanks a ton later
Its takes 500 rounds and a $100 trigger job to make the Sigma decent? Ill take the extra money and get a pistol with a good trigger? :smt083
Allthough my dad got one for $250 with 4 mags, and a streamlight flashlight. That is a damn good deal.
Besides the polish job in an earlier post changing the striker spring will help lower your Sigma a little. Wolff has em.
Alright fellas, this is the update of my prev. post:
The gun is in 100% working condition. not FTFs FTEs whatsoever and it's a joy to shoot. In fact here is a link to the most recent range report i posted at the "firng line". It is VERY accurate. In fact it was the 2nd time i took it to 10 yards plus.
devils: i have "read" that a lighter striker spring will produce failure to fire. The striker will only dimple the primer but not actually cause it to burn the powder. I have not tried it so couldn't say from experience.
nelskc: even a 2000 dollar 1911 needed some break in period. Besides, isn't that the point of having a gun? so you can shoot the hell out of it and if the gun improves over time as an added benefit, hell i'll take what i can get.
Striker Spring Install
How do I install my new Wolff 3.5 striker spring? I can't find anything on the net.
No, it doesn't take 500 rounds and a $100 trigger job. It takes about a half hour of simple work with some crocus cloth and a dremel tool with polishing bits to make it a great gun. If you can't do simple gunsmithing then yes, you're better off purchasing a more expensive weapon.
I have a 9mm Sigma and my only real concern about all these people wanting to lighten up the trigger, especially first time handgun owners, is that this gun was designed to be a service weapon, NOT a target pistol. It was not designed to be shot for hours on end. Of course your index finger and arms will get tired with a pull this heavy after extended use.
When you modify a gun away from spec, don't be surprised when you don't get the satisfactory results. Even Wolff tells you, "Warning: For competition use only - not for duty use." That should be a major tipoff! In other words, if you fall off that rock and break your leg, don't come running to me!
Don't get me wrong, I can certainly appreciate the appeal of a genuine Smith & Wesson pistol for $300.00, but don't make it into something it is not. This gun has been out for awhile and there are plenty of reviews out there so there is no excuse for not knowing what you are getting into. The trigger pull issue is well known, but yet, you (whoever you are) bought one anyway!
OK, so lets assume you knew nothing about the gun before you bought it, why would you keep it if you found it tiresome to use because of the trigger pull? I understand that you own it and now you want to try and make it work better. I get that. With this mod, however, you are not necessarily making the pistol better. If you are lucky and shoot the right ammo, you will have a much more comfortable gun to fire, but don't come back here complaining about misfires.
In my opinion, life is too short to shoot something that you don't like to use. Why not just sell or trade the Sigma and take your lumps. Most major dealers are sold out on this model so you should have not problem getting rid of it.
After you do that, promise yourself that you will do a better job of researching your next purchase BEFORE you lay your cash on the counter. Better yet, see if there is a range that rents guns. That way you can "test drive" a variety of weapons without having to make a long term commitment. Or if you are not shy, see what others are shooting the next time you go to the range and ask to shoot a couple of rounds. Using one or all of these methods, there is no excuse for owning a weapon that does not suit your needs.
OK, I will get down off my soapbox... for now!
Just call S&W service center and get the Trigger Fixed for Free!!!! I did!:mrgreen:
Once you remove the slide look at the rear. There is a black cover there. You can get a small screw driver in the one corner that has a small gap. You have to be careful being there is a spring back there..I keep my hand over the cover while I use my other thumb to slide it down. you'll see that spring really soon then. :smt023
Originally Posted by nacraracer
As to trigger mods. The weapon is designed much like the others it looks almost exactly like. It has the heavy pull in place of a real safety. Much like guns that are sent to some states with the heavier pull it was built like that to keep people from being able to say it went off by accident. The 10-12 lb pull means you got to really be wanting to pull the trigger if you make the gun fire.
Like any weapon that you do a trigger job on this will mean you use this weapon as a carry weapon then the lighter trigger can be a liability some believe. I personally don't agree with any of this and that is why I carry a single action pistol with a really light trigger. But I don't go sticking my finger in there like some Hollywood gangster and pointing at everything that moves too.
I've had one of those Sigma pistols and I was one of those people that worked on the trigger. I even added that pesky Wolff spring. I even modified that spring some and went on to carry it for over a year. Thousands of rounds went through it. I eventually sold it and the guy that has it feeds it all the time with no issue to date. I will tell people that the striker spring change has to be watched being it can lead to a light strike over time. But this happens no matter if you change the spring or not. Springs go bad and deed changed. It's part6 of the maintenance of your weapon. Anyone that never changes a spring on a weapon that use often is going to have a problem at some point. It's a moving part after all.
any weapon we choose to use needs to be well known by the user. Keep it factory, change it all, it doesn't matter. your weapon is a part of you. You know that you need to take care of yourself or you will get sick or not do the things you do as well. Your weapon is no different. Take care of it. You are expecting this thing to save your life possibly. There's more to gun ownership than feeding it and pushing a cleaning rod down the barrel now and then. Break it down. Know what all the parts are. Know what they are supposed to look like and how they are supposed to work. If you are doing mods to your weapon then you have to know those mods will work..ALWAYS.
Picking up a spent case now and then and looking at what the average strike looks like is a good thing to do. and make sure you know what it is supposed to look like with different ammo. They all don't use the same primers.
If you are one that actually pays attention to more than the big noise a gun makes and how it makes holes in paper, cans, etc. You will know if any mods you have made are working or still working as they are supposed to over time.
Make sure that the mods you do are going to be for the better as to how you use your weapon. Running around with a Sigma with a .5 trigger probably wouldn't be the way to go. Taking off even half of it and getting it ti act more like it's Glock brothers is not a big seal. Sigma has up to 12 lb from the shop. A new Glock is about 5.5. So for anyone to say to reduce a trigger by as much as six pounds is not a safe or wise move better never own a Glock or XD. Because those triggers are lot lighter than the Sigma.:smt083
Mine is breaking at 5.5 pounds:smt023
Originally Posted by Baldy
Well I did find one reputable gunsmith who will work on Sigma triggers. The best part about it is that it will not affect your lifetime S&W warranty in any way. The second best part about it is that is totally 100% free, including shipping to and from his shop.
The company is LSG Manufacturing which is the S&W warranty repair facility in Comanche, TX. I totally get the part about wanting to become intimately familiar with every working part of your guns, but when someone out there will do it for free with the blessing and consent of the manufacturer, why not? My SW9VE is on its way to him as we speak.
Originally Posted by scottaschultz
The mans name is Frank Smith and he is a master gun smith.
i got a sigma 40 for christmas, i didnt like the feel of the hard , not smooth trigger.
called the S&W warrenty center to see if they had any advice on a trigger mod that wouldnt void the warrenty.
they told me they they could do it under warrenty (no cost or shipping) and bring the trigger down from a 10lb to a 6-7 lb trigger and made it a lot smoother and lighter,.......i love it since then.
look on the back of your S&W warrenty brochure and find the texas center , call frank smith he really took care of me and the sigma and had it back to me within a week...
Can somebody please remove the slide and take a picture from the very top of the Sigma? I've done a detailed cleaning of my firearm, and i removed the slide lock/release and the spring. Now, I can't get the spring to set in correctly, therefore not being able to put the actual slide release back in. Please, can i get a detailed picture of the internal section of this? And maybe a description of how to? Thanks!
When I contacted S&W for service regarding the trigger pull, they told me that they couldn't do anything about it, that this was the way the gun was designed. I brought up the fact that otherws have reported getting it done through an authorized service center and I don't recall his exact words but it was like he didn't believe me.
This has been covered in multiple threads. Basically, NO they won't do what you asked for the reasons they gave you. Read here (the whole thread) for starters:
Originally Posted by lamuskrat