Problem with Sig Accuracy...
Took my Sig 229 to the range yesterday. First time firing this handgun since I purchased it about 3 weeks ago used at a local gun dealer. Mechanically it works fine but this gun does not put the bullet anywhere near the sight lines. At 25 yards I could not even hit the paper target and at times missing the backstop entirely. Did not seem to be any consistency whatsoever in terms of missng high low, left or right.
I literally had to get within 15 feet of the target to consistently hit the target whatsover and I'm not talking about the scoring part of the target.
Now I am not the best shot in the world but I know I am not THAT bad. I used my sons Ruger and could easily put 8 out of 10 shots in the scoring part of the target at 25 yards.
Obviously I am taking the Sig back on Monday but in the meantime does anyone have any ideas on what the problem may be?
25 yards is a LONG distance to start with dude! Me thinks U expect too much It sounds like U have shot a gun before, but are not a regular shooter.
Start at 15 feet, and then work your way out to 21 feet.
Quite often, it takes time to get the hang of a new gun.
It took me 1000 rounds to stop shooting low with my HK USPc, and I did not have this problem with a fullsize HK I used to have (or any of my other guns). I benched the gun on sandbags, though, and I could tell the gun shot fine. I just had to get used to it.
Don't give up now. But, unless you are a super experienced shooter - to start at 25 yards with a new gun is unrealistic.
You are correct I am not a regular shooter but thought I could at the very least hit paper at 25 yards and did so with the Ruger quite easily which is what has me confused.
I used the same stance, sighting methods etc that I did with the Sig but radically different results. Like I pointed out earlier I managed 8 out of 10 in the scoring part of the target with the Ruger at 25 yards and couldn't hit paper with the Sig. Is there that much difference in the way the two guns fire?
I know 25 yards is a long distance to start with but I learned something along time ago. I put up horseshoe pits in my backyard some years back. Not knowing any better I put the stakes at 45 feet apart instead of the regulation 40 feet. I praticed on my pits at home quite often. One day a friend asked me to join a league at the local VFW. When I got there and started throwing I was amazed at how easy it was to throw ringers. It was almost like I could just reach out and lay the shoes on the stake.
I commented to the guy next to me that these stake seemed close together. He replied that they were regulation 40 feet apart.
sometimes a little ignorance pays off.
Thanks for the advice Shipwreck and I do not intend to give up but feel I need the gun checked out by a gunsmith just to remove any doubt.
Is the SIg new or used?
I am not a Sig fan, personally - but they are expertly made guns. Try letting someone else shoot it and see if it is U are the gun.
Some guns do take a while to get the hang of - as I mentioned above, my USPc did.
Every gun is a little different.
Is it DA/SA or the new DAK trigger on that Sig?
The Sig is used. Double action only. My son tried it with the same results.
Like I said mechsnically it seems to function just fine. Can't figure what could make it so different than the Ruger
My 229 shoots real good, but not as tight as some of my guns with longer barrels. I practice about 200 rounds each week, a great deal of that is with a timer playing "scenario games" with a friend of mine. I consistantly hit IDPA targets at 25 yards shooting fast, but not X rings. The 229 is a compact pistol with a shorter barrel which always sacrifices accuracy. I believe the 229 barrel is about 3 inches. What length barrel on the ruger? What size targets are you using?
The Ruger is a P94 which I beleive has a barrell length slightly over 4 inches. So it has a good inch length on the Sig which is probably what makes the difference in accuracy. The targets are standard NRA slow shoot pistol targets for a distance of 25 yards. The entire paper is about 12X16 if I had to guess.
I am learning as I go here. After talking to the people at the gun shop this morning as well as here I am becoming convinced there is probably nothing wrong with the Sig. It is a close in conceal carry weapon and not a range gun. Which is fine as I need a good conceal carry weapon.
Now any suggestions on a good moderately priced gun for the range??
Thanks again for the comments and advice.
I practice out to 35 yards only because I shoot IDPA, which has targets at that distance sometimes. In any real defensive shooting that I've heard of its been more like 3 yards.
The way I see it is, if I can hit a person at 35 yds, then I can hit a person right between the eyes at 3.
Set up two targets about 5yds away and about 5 yards apart, then practice this
-aim at center of target 1 paying attention to your front site only
-squeeze trigger twice as fast as you can without moving your sites
-swing to target 2 and repeat two trigger sqeezes
-repeat process for 10min every day
then watch your accuracy improve tremendously, at any distance, with no ammo cost at all.
I've been a Sig owner for 20 years. If it's the gun, It's likely the sights. I had a buddy have issues with his shooting to the left all the time. Adjusted the sights, problem fixed.
You are shooting a good distance, and you are not an experienced shooter. I'd keep working at it. Start in close so you can get point of aim/point of impact, and then work your way out.
I have no plans on giving up on the Sig. It is at the gunsmith right now being looked at. As a matter of fact I looked at a Sig 226 9mm full size with a 4 inch barrell which I may purchase. Factory refurb at $350.00 This may help me get more accurate with the 229. The 226 has the exact same grip feel, trigger pull and nearly the same weight as the 229. Plus a little cheaper to shoot with at the range and the extra barrell length will give me a bit more accuracy and confidence.
Thanks for the advice and comments.
When it comes back from the GS, take it to the range, place it on a support (use your range bag), put the target out to 20 feet and SLOWLY point, aim and squeeze the trigger. I use a 4 3/4" jar lid, take a magic marker and trace around the lid onto a plain target. You can clearly see the circle and with a six o'clock hold you should be able to place all your rounds inside that circle at 20 feet. Then stand up, take your normal shooting stance and try shooting the same target. The 229 (including mine) is great for up close and personal defensive shooting. Mine will keep the rounds inside that circle at 50 feet. Farther out it gets a lot wider. If you prefer the longer ranges, the 229 is not a good choice.
According to the gunsmith there is apparently nothing wrong with my Sig 229. Pretty much what I expected to hear. Being told that it is a carry gun with a short barrel and being dao I am just going to have to work with it and find the accuracy range of the gun with practice. Fine with me I have no problem with that.
Now. I would like to find a range gun that I can use and shoot some distance with a greater degree of accuracy. And a bit more economical on the ammunition than my 229 .40.
I can buy a Sig 226 9mm used for $350.00 I beleive this is a 4.4" barrel. Will I experience increased accuracy at greater distances with this gun compared to the 229? Is there another caliber I should consider.
I am looking for quality and reliability foremost.
Try to find a personal instructor who is a revolver shooter. I carry DAO pistols only and for the non-shooter, DAO can get tiring and takes fervent practice, especially when using a shorter gun because the sight radius doesn't tell you how badly you're jerking the trigger or maybe staging it. Longer barrels don't increase accuracy because the barrel is longer, but because the sight radius is longer. Smaller guns and DAO takes a lot of practice. Dry firing is the best way to practice proper technique.
I must admit, I'm confused why you are so fixed on shooting at greater distances with a range pistol. Are you training yourself for bulleyes shooting? Since your 229 checked out fine, I agree you need to practice more, especially with a DAO auto. I hope you aren't comparing your shooting skills to other good shooters at the range. I shoot pretty good and accurate, but I've been shooting a handgun since my LE days starting in 1972. Dollar wise, the 9mm is the cheapest for factory ammo. To keep my skills sharp, I shoot my .22 caliber Ruger 22/45...practice, practice and more practice.
Newbies like myself must sound confusing to you guys who have been around awhile because well we (I) probably am confused. Thanks for your patience and for not railing on me to hard and answering questions. Much appreciated.
Learning as I go here like I have said. Took some basic skills and safety training from a instructor over the weekend which will qualify me for my cc and got some excellent advice and tips. I have set up some private one on one lessons with him as well to try to shorten the learning curve.
I think my end goal is to have a good cc weeapon which the 229 will provide.
I have a second job which has me out at 3 and 4 in the morning. The nature of the job has me in dark parking lots and alleys doing deliveries. I have been approached several times by suspicious looking characters always looking for handouts. They can get persistent and sometimes on the verge of demanding. I have been surprised by people just showing up at the back of my truck. I had one guy jump in the back of the truck insisting he was going to help me unload the cargo and that I was going to pay him. Pretty scary. Once I am in the back of the truck I am cornered. I pulled my cell phone and called 911 and he vacated. Nontheless you never know someones intentions at 4 in the morning in a dark parking lot or alley and I want the confidence of knowing I can protect myself.
I would also like to become proficient at some target shooting to keep things fun at the range. The 229 as I have learned will not provide this but I do intend to continue to practice with it.
I would like to stay with a Sig for my range gun due to the fact I like the feel and reliability. The 226 in a 9mm I thought may be a good choice because it will feel much like the 229 and may help with getting better using that gun as well. The full size 226 will be more accurate and provide the target shooting I am looking for at the range. Not to mention economy.
I know a 22 is ideal for this but frankly I think I may find that boring.
Also I have heard that alot of dry firing a weapon is not good for the weapon over a period of time. True?
Well, since you described your "night" job and the possible situations that could arise, I'd say you difinately need to practice within the 7 yard line. In fact, you might consider getting proficient with point and shoot tactics. Regarding the 229 vs. the 226 and better long range accuracy. Remember these auto's are new to you and your skill (at this time) is not going to make the 226 more accurate than the 229. The barrel length 3.9" compared to 4.4" is not that big of a difference. A .22 auto is not boring, it's fun to shoot. I'm sensing you prefer to shoot fast and long. Maybe after you get your CC license you should consider IDPA competition. The 229 will work fine. In fact, I've got an Uncle Mike's kydex paddle/belt attachment holster I used one time, I'd sell it to you cheap. I even have three slightly used 10 round MecGar mags I'll give you deal on.
Thanks again for the advice and offer on the holster amd mags. I just ordered a Galco paddle and have 3 mags for my 229 which is sufficent but thanks none the less.
I am taking one on one lessons from the NRA instructor who gave the CC class so I am putting my trust in his expertise and along with practice practice practice that this will shorten the learning curve.
Going to hold off on making another gun purchase untill I feel I have more experience and can make a more informed decision.
You are on the right track. Good luck.
As SZ says, you are on the right track.
I like the P229, P226 combo, BUT I, personally, try and keep it all the same caliber.
I understand your reasons for wanting a 9mm, and they are legitimate, but my thinking is this.
If something bad happens, and I'm caught off guard, I don't want any MORE surprises. If you practice with 9mm and shoot .40 S&W, it's going to be different.
Just my opinion.
Most confrontations where you pull a gun happen in about 5 foot to 10 foot range, shooting 25 feet. I make sure im dead on 5ft to 15ft, thats it, anthing else over that, I dont kick myself for not being dead on.
on the side note, if u dont like the sig 229, i would check out the p2000, I just bought one, and I never want to put it down, It is awesome, theres a member on an HK forum that has put 10,000+ rounds threw his, and not one problem, i think the only thing wrong with it, is one of the mags floorplates, is loose, and thats it. youll spend extra but the way I look at things, is no money is worth the life of you and your loved ones.
Also, with your sig, I 2 bought a Sig 229 .40 used, and mine shoots great, after i put night sights on it, I dont liek the little bar line up sites that come with it. Just pratice with it some more. Pratice makes perfect. SIGs are very accurate weapons, and you dont need to baby them either.
Last edited by VegasEgo; 06-21-2007 at 05:57 PM.
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