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  1. #21
    hideit's Avatar
    hideit is offline Senior Member
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    Are the days of the 9mm over?

    a better question is - Are the days of the .40 and 45acp over? - FOR THE AVERAGE CITIZEN

    without deep pockets - that ammo is expensive
    you can shoot/practice far more with the 9mm

    heck - there are a lot of interesting articles and info lately that 22's are picking up more than ever - who ever dreamed of an AR-15 in 22lr directly from smith or colt

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  3. #22
    Poink88 is offline Junior Member
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    I would bet .380 will go before 9mm will... but probably both will still be here after I am long gone.

  4. #23
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    The Capitol Police also use the .40S&W. During my most recent visit to Washington I spoke to one of the officers noting that he had a nice looking Glock-Was it a 23 I asked? no he said a 40. Well I knew what I was asking and perhaps he didn't understand me.

    The .40 is becoming very popular amongst shooters, like yours truly, law enforcement and military special units. Unit prices are decreasing and they are almost as cheap to reload as the 9mm.

    As far as survivor tactics I have also purchased a 9mm barrel and magazines for my P229, so in case of Armageddon I'm good to go.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hideit View Post
    growler67
    you left off one step regarding the FBI
    they first went to the 10mm but almost all agents didn't like the horsepower
    so then they went to the .40
    You are correct. I cut straight to the chase without the full history. I consider the 10mm to be an experiment, still ongoing but an experiment nevertheless. A long running fluke if you will. .45GAP was on the dinosaur list as soon as it came out, IMO. The Delta Elite was something I looked at when it first came out. I wasn't impressed. I chose the universally available route back then and continue to utilize it for the many reasons that there are. Cheaper, availability, makes for more trigger time which leads to higher degree of proficiency which means I can place my shots and disregard those advocates of a bigger caliber being a better choice. YMMV

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sully2 View Post
    YOU have lots more to learn!
    Could you expound upon what is contrary? Terminal Ballistics is only truly applicable in rifles and not in handguns, with a few specific exceptions. The characteristics of the one shot drop only apply with rifle calibers. Handguns, again with a few specific exceptions, can NOT deliver the same kind of performance. Secondary effect wounding is part and parcel to how and why handgun round development has come such a long way in the last 20~ years. Rapid expansion, less fragmentation (except where that is the intent of the design) and all the other factors involved in the current production of SD/HD rounds is all about inducing a wound cavity. Shot placement has ALWAYS been my personal stance of advocation so that a vital organ or other critical part of anatomy is struck by the bullet (should I ever have to perform such a task). Bullet development (especially in JHP) has incorporated the creation of a wound cavity as an additional and intentional by product.

    Getting a modern Hollow Point to expand rapidly ensures the effects occurr as the manufacturer intended by design. It also allows for the best possibility of the bullet remaining within the target so as to attempt to deliver that elusive "stopping power" that in handgun is a misinterpreted and misrepresented fallicy. Lighter weight bullets generally have higher velocities that heavier ones but I will and have gladly traded away a few hundred FPS over delivering more mass (weight) on target. It's why I currently run with 147gr JHP's instead of the 124's. Strike bone and the energy transfer is more significant with a heavier bullet than a lighter faster one.

    The FMJ (ball ammo) tangent is for another thread, IMO.

  7. #26
    Sully2 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Growler67 View Post
    Could you expound upon what is contrary? Terminal Ballistics is only truly applicable in rifles and not in handguns, with a few specific exceptions. The characteristics of the one shot drop only apply with rifle calibers. Handguns, again with a few specific exceptions, can NOT deliver the same kind of performance. Secondary effect wounding is part and parcel to how and why handgun round development has come such a long way in the last 20~ years. Rapid expansion, less fragmentation (except where that is the intent of the design) and all the other factors involved in the current production of SD/HD rounds is all about inducing a wound cavity. Shot placement has ALWAYS been my personal stance of advocation so that a vital organ or other critical part of anatomy is struck by the bullet (should I ever have to perform such a task). Bullet development (especially in JHP) has incorporated the creation of a wound cavity as an additional and intentional by product.

    Getting a modern Hollow Point to expand rapidly ensures the effects occurr as the manufacturer intended by design. It also allows for the best possibility of the bullet remaining within the target so as to attempt to deliver that elusive "stopping power" that in handgun is a misinterpreted and misrepresented fallicy. Lighter weight bullets generally have higher velocities that heavier ones but I will and have gladly traded away a few hundred FPS over delivering more mass (weight) on target. It's why I currently run with 147gr JHP's instead of the 124's. Strike bone and the energy transfer is more significant with a heavier bullet than a lighter faster one.

    The FMJ (ball ammo) tangent is for another thread, IMO.
    I never said anything about so called "one shot drops"...nor about FMJ bullets!

    Wounds are partially because of bullet CONSTRUCTION and the weight differences ( 115 VS 147 ) arent enough to amount to doodle squat. The "Strike bone and the energy transfer is more significant with a heavier bullet than a lighter faster one" MIGHT come into play when comparing maybe a 115 gr slug to say a 250 gr slug...but as stated its LESS than 30 grains difference here and the 115 slug as normally loaded in factory ammo gives MORE ft/lbs of energy that the slightly slower 147 gr rounds do.

    Its reported over and over again that one of the "most wicked" rounds a person might carry is the .357 Magnum loaded with 125 gr 1/2 jacket HP's. Then why isnt it the 158 gr HP rounds? BULLET EXPANSION at the higher velocitys causing the slug to open up is why.

    "Getting a modern Hollow Point to expand rapidly ensures the effects occur as the manufacturer intended by design. It also allows for the best possibility of the bullet remaining within the target so as to attempt to deliver that elusive "stopping power" that in handgun is a misinterpreted and misrepresented fallicy"... Misinterpretated & misreprensented fallicy"...BY whom and to Whom?...certainly not by me??

  8. #27
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    With the cost of ammo increasing on larger calibers, and the fact that the 9 MM is used by our armed forces and will be for the foreseeable future, the 9 MM will be around for a long, long time. It' probably the most economical round to shoot, with the exception of the .22 Cal.

  9. #28
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    Just joined the forum today and glad to be here. I too have been debating about which way to go with the upcoming purchase of a new 226 TacOps and after hearing strong opinions of which is best (.40 or 9mm) from both camps, I've decided to go with the 9mm. I don't believe the 9mm is going away for a long time. It's too economical of a round, especially with the various loads now being more powerful and effective. Certainly nothing wrong with the .40 at all however, I believe that the 9mm. is still a good selection. Alot of others in the world seem to still think so as well.

  10. #29
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    Well the 38 special was designed in 1899; the .45 in 1904.

    The 38 is still around so that gives the .45 at least another 5 years.

    The military (USA) went out for bids on hand guns for the armed forces in .45 caliber with no safeties. Presumably it will be DAO. It was set aside for a while but I think it is up again.

    If the military starts using .45s again then the .45 will not disappear, of that you can be certain.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    The 9mm is here to stay until ray guns are available. The Military still uses .45s pending on specific unit etc. and yes the Military uses FMJ only in all small arms that fire such projectiles. The NATO 9mm round leaves a lot to be desired when compared to more "modern" bullet designs which is why many are clamoring for the change, if an alternate chambering were to be used other than the 9mm NATO cartridge, I think there would be more happy campers.
    +1

    All major popular calibers are here to stay. Until the ray gun. Big difference between 9mm ball and Hollow points. In some calibers other than 9mm maybe not as drastic a disparity. Hence the fondness for the 45. May or may not expand or flatten out on contact but it won't shrink. Valid point when all you get is FMJ.

    Nothing wrong with the current platform M9 or P226 Navy and nothing inherently wrong with the nine. It's the flavor of the nine the troops are stuck using. Police packing the same weapons stoked with Ranger, Gold Dot, CorBon, etc. are, in my humble opinion, well heeled.

    Really it's dimes versus nickles when ideally we'd be throwing gold bricks at the same speed and recoil of the dime. I'm a nine is fine guy but I get to pick and choose my defense purposed ammo, I mean dimes. It's all a trade off and much like the platforms themselves is a personal decision based on priorities.

  12. #31
    Packard is offline Senior Member
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    When I was just getting into shooting in the late 70s, the .32 was considered a "dead" cartridge. No one used it. But the first iteration of the Seacamp was in .32 as I recall, and all of the sudden the cartridge was alive again.

    As long as people design and build interesting weapons around a given cartridge there will be a demand for that round.

  13. #32
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    No worries gents .... the 9mm, like the .45 is here to stay ...

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