LOOKING at new SIG P238 for wifey

Went looking for a new CCW for/with the wifey today, and had a chance to get ahold of the new SIG P238. My overall first impression was WOW...nice.
1911 styling with night sights & rose grips. 6rnd mag for $600 out the door. But the wifey......being the wifey fell in LOVE with the "Special Edition" Bi-Tone with blackwood grips:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4291/...ooddetaill.jpg

- $795!!tumbleweed

Now without getting into the whole .380 as a defensive round debate - what's the "general" consensus on this new offering from SIG?

It's going to replace her BERSA T380 (pos) and she plans to purse carry.

Thanks all.

If she plans to purse carry, why get a little .380?

I don't have a 238 yet, but we've (wife and I) carried the original Colt Mustangs for years without a complaint. The only issue I'm going to see is that the gun should be carried with the hammer cocked and the safety on, this will leave a nice dust/lint nook so be sure to clean that space between the slide and the hammer daily.

I plan on picking up two Sig 238s to replace my Mustangs in carry rotation. The design has been slightly improved by adding real sights, a spring tensioner on the ejector preventing a particular issue, and a removable mainspring housing to allow for easier maintenance (speculation, the original is a pain to take apart from inside the mag well with the grips off)

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with the Bersa?

We're having 3 issues with the BERSA:

Tigger Dissconnect clip/washer WILL not stay in place. Put 3 rnds thru it and it litterally falls apart and I've got peices rattling around iside the grips

Safety decocker is SO STIFF that it's impossible to "flick" the lever with one hand (thumb)

Not sure if this is the gun or the both of us.......It's shoots in a "hail-mary" pattern ar 7-10yrds even on the bench. I've had numerous fellow shooters try it and even local range/firearms instructors try it with varied results.

It was a what we hoped was a "decent" gun for a "decent" price$$. And the price$$ side of it is proving that we got what we paid for.

I've posted my CONCERNS over on the BERSATALK forum, and asked how I could properly ship it in for warranty, but I think I p.o'd the mods in describing how dissapoionted I was with this gun and now I have a sneaky suspsision I'm being ignored.tumbleweed

So I'm going to send it in thru my local FFL that I bought it from and go from there. I suspect we'll be getting rid of it even after if/when it gets back.

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Originally Posted by cupsz71

We're having 3 issues with the BERSA:

Tigger Dissconnect clip/washer WILL not stay in place. Put 3 rnds thru it and it litterally falls apart and I've got peices rattling around iside the grips

Safety decocker is SO STIFF that it's impossible to "flick" the lever with one hand (thumb)

Not sure if this is the gun or the both of us.......It's shoots in a "hail-mary" pattern ar 7-10yrds even on the bench. I've had numerous fellow shooters try it and even local range/firearms instructors try it with varied results.

It was a what we hoped was a "decent" gun for a "decent" price$$. And the price$$ side of it is proving that we got what we paid for.

I've posted my CONCERNS over on the BERSATALK forum, and asked how I could properly ship it in for warranty, but I think I p.o'd the mods in describing how dissapoionted I was with this gun and now I have a sneaky suspsision I'm being ignored.tumbleweed

So I'm going to send it in thru my local FFL that I bought it from and go from there. I suspect we'll be getting rid of it even after if/when it gets back.

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Sorry to hear about your problems with the Bersa, we had one for a while and it was a decent gun for the money considering I paid $150 for it. Be advised that the Sig 238 safety will be super stiff when new, almost all the one's I've gotten my hands on were pretty stiff, but they should break in nicely.

I've had a few 380's over the years and just can't male myself like them. they seem top flip more than a 9mm without the 9mm power and accuracy.

that is a nice looking Sig though.

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Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson

I've had a few 380's over the years and just can't male myself like them. they seem top flip more than a 9mm without the 9mm power and accuracy.

that is a nice looking Sig though.

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It all depends on the gun, I HATED the Bersa .380, I hated the way it shot. It functioned well, but it just wasn't pleasant. I will never own an LCP or P3AT as one is a horrendous shooter and the other is just an updated horrendous shooter, but I love my steel framed Mustangs. Colt got the pocket .380 right with the steel frame and locked breach. I can honestly say that my Mustang +II despite being smaller shot 10X better than the Bersa and holds the same amount of ammunition.

I've been delaying on the Sig 238 mainly to see if they release it with the longer frame and in steel/steel as opposed to the alloy frame that is currently in production. If Sig would come out with all three sizes in the steel frame I would be one happy camper.

Yikes! Asking price is too much for that SIG .380! Step up to a 9mm. I've read the .380 SIGs have had their share of problems.

Can't justify paying that much for such a small caliber with questionable reliability. Plenty of other choices to have your wife fall in love with.

that sucks your haven so much badluck with a new gun

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Originally Posted by ka-chow

Yikes! Asking price is too much for that SIG .380! Step up to a 9mm. I've read the .380 SIGs have had their share of problems.

Can't justify paying that much for such a small caliber with questionable reliability. Plenty of other choices to have your wife fall in love with.

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For the sake of intellectual discussion, other than the recall, what are these "problems" you speak of and where are you finding the negative reviews?

I have heard about problems cycling with those pistols but I haeve not shot or seen one first hand so I can't really offer any good 1st hand info. Maybe with hotter ammo and a good polish job to the feed ramp and chamber..I don't know.

I had the Bersa too. It's pretty hard on the shooter.I had feed issues with mine until I found some east European ammo that was a little hotter and the weapon did seem to like it better. Though it did make the pistol even less enjoyable to shoot. It did start to even out after a couple hundred rounds but before that break in time it was not as reliable as I would have wanted. It was bought to be a truck gun so I didn't plan on using it often to begin with.

I would maybe like one that was heavier like the Sig looks to be. I think I would go with a compact 9mm too but again I have on been able to use the weapon so really any opinion I can give is not all that valuable other than my dislike for the round. I have shot several other 380 models and they all I thought were a little too hard on the hands but I understand why they make them small like that. I think I would rather have a 380 than something like a 25 ACP. had a XD9 sub compact a few years ago that was pretty small and shot really well. If striker fired weapons are your thing I think it would make a good option other than a 380. I have not had or shot many other compact 9mms so I can't advise past that.

As to a larger frame I really don't know of anyone that does that with a 380. It might be interesting to see though to see how well the round performed with a longer barrel and a more beefy frame.

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Originally Posted by DevilsJohnson

As to a larger frame I really don't know of anyone that does that with a 380. It might be interesting to see though to see how well the round performed with a longer barrel and a more beefy frame.

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Not quite what I'm talking about so I'll explain into more detail.

1: Regarding larger frame .380s, the Beretta Cheetah comes to mind, that's a decent sized gun and comes in either a single or double stack configuration, but the gun itself is way too edgy. The new Walther Pk390 is the size of a compact 9mm, that would make for nice shooting .380, but I see absolutely no value in a 9mm sized .380.

2:What I was referring to regarding a longer frame on the Sig, is that I would like to see them offer the P238 in the other two sizes that Colt had made their modern .380s in, the Gov't .380 and the Mustang +II which offered 7 rounds as opposed to the five rounds that the Mustang held before the six round mags became available.

I need to take a better photo with all three in the same shot to show the differences in size better:

Gov't .380

http://www.defensivecarry.com/galler...m/IMG_5166.JPG

Mustang +II on top / Mustang on the bottom

http://www.defensivecarry.com/galler...ustangs1-1.jpg

As the Sig 238 has the same dimensions as the Mustang, this is the size of the 238

http://www.defensivecarry.com/galler...m/IMG_2712.jpg

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Originally Posted by VAMarine

Not quite what I'm talking about so I'll explain into more detail.

Mustang +II on top / Mustang on the bottom

http://www.defensivecarry.com/galler...ustangs1-1.jpg

As the Sig 238 has the same dimensions as the Mustang, this is the size of the 238

http://www.defensivecarry.com/galler...m/IMG_2712.jpg

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Those are NICE looking COLTS VAMarine!!

Again I appreciate the whole "get a 9mm" idea........ but it's what my wifey is COMFORTABLE WITH, and since she's the one carrying/shooting it.......that's what matters.:smt083

Those COLTS are the very size of pistol that "fits" the wifey's smaller hands perfectly. We've tried literally DOZENS of small framed 9mm's for her and NONE she was comfortable with.

We almost bought a Beretta 84 Cheetah (used) but she got "slide bite" from a used one we were testing at the range - OUCH - and "so much for that one"

I'll clear one thing up though: the BERSA was new in '07 ($325), and probably has 500+ rnds thru it. And as mentioned by DevilsJohnson it's VERY ammo brand finiky.
Mechanical malfunctions aside - I feel that the BERSA is COMPLETELY UNRELIABLE as a CCW weapon for the wifey. At this point she's be better off THROWING it at the BG and hoping for the best.:smt075

So......I'm not really concerned with how spendy the SIG is (aren't they ALL anyways??) due to we're talking about my wife's safety.... and I won't put a $$$ on that.
But my FFL dealer offered to give me $175 for the BERSA on trade and brought the initial $$$ down to $665 for the P238.

SO enough said about the BERSA.........any other thoughts on the P238??:smt033

I HIGHLY recommend the p238...Great pistol! The fit and feel are perfect, the felt recoil is very minimal compared to my LCP, and the night sights are great. I've put about 500-700 rds of multiple brands through it and have been very pleased! The only issue has been the factory mag would not seat fully loaded (6rds) into the gun unless the slide was locked to the rear. I called CS and got the runaround at first but they ended up sending me a new mag, and after I got the new mag I was able to fix the first one so now I've got two good ones! They are on the pricey side but if it gets you carrying then it really doesn't matter! IMO the P238 is one of the best .380's on the market hands down!

I fondled one last week and fell in love with the size and design. I just can't spend it for a .380 when I can comfortably carry a 9mm. They are cool as hell and could get one for $600 out the door just like the one pictured at the top of this thread. Just a tad larger and it could be a 9mm. I wish they would make the 232 in 9mm too.

Thanks for all the opinions and info all!!

I'm almost "forum'd" out about this pistol. I posted on a few others including SIGforum and GOOGLE'd the crap out of it.

The overall consensus is that it's an A++ GREAT little gun for CCW - shoots/feels good.... IF your comfortable carrying "cocked-n-locked"....or condition 3. So the wifey is pondering that one.

But I'm afraid everything may have to be put on HOLD for a bit. The wifey was involved in a "minor" car crash late lst wk with an UNISURED MOTORIST!!:smt076 - (she's ok..just bruised a bit) -to the tune of $3000 dollars damage to her Grand Am.

The other driver got off with a $200 fine and lost his licence for 3months for driving w/o insurance or having current registration on his P.O.S. '93 Ford Escort Wagon! (at the very least -she totaled it for him..) :smt083

As a result WE have to payout our $500 deductable upfront - to get her car fixed until AMFAM can collect - YEA RIGHT. It's in the bodyshop at this very moment, so the cash$$$ will have to be paid out soon.

So what I ended up doing is sending in the BERSA for repairs under warranty to see if it can be salvaged as a BUG for me. (NOW it's not worth anything $$$ for trading when dumb me let my FFL dealer know what problems we were having and that I was thinking of sending it in....) and let the wifey keep using my XD. Until then I'll keep my S&W close by.

THANKS ALL!!

I have also been looking at the sig 380. Have a colt pony, in pocket lite variety. Love the size of it, but as a carry gun my wife does not like it because of the long and hard double action trigger. Have looked at a couple of used Colt Mustang's, but for the money right now I would just about be better off with a new Sig.

I've got the same gun, the Blackwood and love it!

I to looked at these awhile back. There were alot of reliability ans send back to exeter compliants.
From what i read most of the folks that had issues and sent them back to NH .Their issues were resolved and they now like the gun.I figured i'd wait til sig had a chance to put t heir fixes into production on these.
they are a sweet lil mouse though.

My wife has been wanting the P238 and even though I love the little gun I won't buy it for her to carry. This gun is a SAO weapon and I know its the last thing she will be thinking about when she pulls the gun in a stressful situation. I want to get her a DAO gun that doesn't need to be cocked before shooting it. Something like a Kahr PM9. I love the look and the feel of the Sig P238 but I wouldn't let a person who isn't super comfortable with handgun carry it. Its definitely not a beginners gun in my opinion.

The problem with the compact 9mms, in my opinion, is that they are very uncomfortable to shoot. The Keltec P-9 and Ruger LC9 have HORRENDOUS trigger pulls, which makes hitting accurate groups very hard. The PM9 shoots ok, but lacks a manual safety, which for me is a no-no. The Kimber Solo is accurate, but man, it wants to jump out of your hand when you shoot it.

On the flip side, you have the Sig p238. It's the exact dimensions of the Kimber Solo. It shoots .380, so its recoil is almost nothing, and hitting tight groups is a breeze. Loaded with some hot DoubleTap, Corbon DPX, or Buffalo Bore ammo, I have NO doubt the p238 could drop someone in their tracks.

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Originally Posted by XD40Colorado

The problem with the compact 9mms, in my opinion, is that they are very uncomfortable to shoot. The Keltec P-9 and Ruger LC9 have HORRENDOUS trigger pulls, which makes hitting accurate groups very hard. The PM9 shoots ok, but lacks a manual safety, which for me is a no-no. The Kimber Solo is accurate, but man, it wants to jump out of your hand when you shoot it.

On the flip side, you have the Sig p238. It's the exact dimensions of the Kimber Solo. It shoots .380, so its recoil is almost nothing, and hitting tight groups is a breeze. Loaded with some hot DoubleTap, Corbon DPX, or Buffalo Bore ammo, I have NO doubt the p238 could drop someone in their tracks.

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I do...

Personally, I have little faith of a .45ACP+P to "drop someone in their tracks", better to be realistic than standing there mouth agape when "X" wonder cartridge fails to obliterate your attacker.

The 238 is a nice little package, but it IS near the bottom end of the power scale, lets not make it out to more than it is with bold statements, regardless of bold ammo choices.

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Originally Posted by VAMarine

Personally, I have little faith of a .45ACP+P to "drop someone in their tracks",

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i have great faith that any bullet fired from a modern firearm CAN and WILL drop someone in their tracks, but on MOST occasions that person rarely remains immobile long enough for you to make a shot placed in one of the few regions of the human body that will generate said drop.

its NOT about the devastating power of any given round, its about the devastating shot placement. dont buy a bigger gun, buy more ammo and get better with the gun you have.

Put about 600 rnds through my new P238. Not one problem shooting Win 95gr FMJFT.

Why the P238? Well, a few things. It's flat. It's small. It all but disappears into a front pants pocket via a Galco pocket holster. It's light. Real light. All of the things I just mentioned are enough to ensure I will always have this on me. This is huge.

The caliber question will never be resolved. Let's just say there are trade-offs in everything we do. Even a Beretta Bobcat in .22 cal Stinger is better than nothing.

The aesthetic - Sure, ultimately this shouldn't be a deal breaker for a life or death choice, but the Sig P238 is quite handsome. If I wasn't concerned about flashing the populace I would have got the two tone with the white and black grips instead of the "basic all black". I do like that they offer many choices this way.

The one reservation I had is the SAO system. Not that I am a neophyte with the mechanics, I shoot the heck out of 1911s, but for everyday carry I'm a little uneasy with the "cocked and locked" system. I will try carrying with the hammer down on a chambered round (it's safe with no firing pin contact with primer) and practice drawing-cocking-firing. If after time I do not find this system working for me I'll maybe transition to an LCP. BTW, Detonics designed a great .45 SAO around the perfectly legitimate practice of carrying with hammer down. Of course their hammer was very thumb friendly unlike the P238 which could be troublesome to manipulate especially under duress.

The price was brought up by a previous writer. They are not low rent. But, right now Sig has a promotion program where you can get the P238 with laser sights for cheaper than without. I know, doesn't make sense but mine was purchased from a major dealer for $489 with sights included. Gun alone was on the shelf for $499. Go figure.