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  1. #41
    Nastynewt's Avatar
    Nastynewt is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    Sorry about my incorrect information on the Glock trigger pulls; I was thinking about Smith's Sigma series.

    Anyway, the way I see it there's a greater chance of me using the fact that my chamber is free to my advantage than of me using a loaded chamber to my advantage.

    I think if I'm racing against time to the point where racking my slide makes a difference, I'm probably screwed already; because I can cock a gun while I'm still pulling it up.

    Now, if my sigpro had a safety that would be a different story, I'd probably just keep it locked. But having the trigger down isn't enough to satisfy my nerves...
    I carried my Sig P226 3 years one in the chamber and decocked. As someone said you can hit the hammer with a brick while decocked it will not fire.

  2. #42
    bangbang is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastynewt View Post
    I carried my Sig P226 3 years one in the chamber and decocked. As someone said you can hit the hammer with a brick while decocked it will not fire.
    This is because the hammer does NOT rest on the firing pin. When decocked, there is about a centimeter (give or take) of lcearance between the firing pin and the hammer...I like this very much...

    I also love how the decocker in teh Sig is slow and deliberate...ever activated the decocker in the Beretta PX4? Hehe...point it down when you do!!!

  3. #43
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    Yes there is a difference. Because the Glock trigger has 1/2 inch of travel and a 5.5 lb trigger pull (for the standard models), it is considered a double action pistol. With the Sig cocked, there is a lighter trigger pull (5.0 lbs according to the website specs) and less trigger travel. I have shot Glocks in competition and Sigs at the indoor range. There is definitely a difference in my opinion and I would not want to be carrying a Sig cocked and unlocked. While the trigger pull may be close in the specs, the glock trigger feels considerably heavier for me than a cocked Sig. There is also a distinct difference in my experience with the trigger travel. I might also note that in USPSA competition, it is permissible to holster guns that have a cocked and locked mode, such as 1911s and double action pistols, such as Glocks. But, if you are shooting a gun like a Sig or a Beretta that has an external hammer and no safety to engage when the gun is cocked, you are not permitted to holster the gun cocked because it is considered an unsafe situation. It must be holstered with the hammer down.

  4. #44
    kenjihara is offline Junior Member
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    Empty pipe

    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    What are yall's thoughts on this?
    I don't think that racking the slide back on your pistol is going to be any more of an 'intimidation factor' than pointing a loaded gun at them already is. You may be watching too many movies.

    The SigPro is a DA/ SA and as such is designed to be carried with one in the chamber and the hammer down. The double action trigger on the SigPro is heavy enough to prevent accidental discharges in the hands of anyone who trains properly with it. Besides, with the hammer decocked on a live round you can still quickly cock the hammer if you need that sweet, light single action trigger (if you have the time!).

    I'm assuming that you have your carry permit. I'm surprised that the instructor who licensed you didn't go over this sort of stuff, but maybe they didn't for legal reasons. If you need to draw your weapon in self-defense you will almost certainly have next to zero time to make things happen. In less than the time it takes to think about it an assailant, even unarmed or wielding a knife, can close a distance of seven yards or more. The point to having a gun is that it's a force multiplier; it means not having to defend yourself at contact distances. If you draw your weapon and point it at a legitimate threat and they still remain a threat (ie coming towards you, cornering you, bringing an edged or contact weapon to bear on you, pointing their own gun at you) you should have a gun in your hand that will go BANG without any more fiddling with it. If you need it you will need it very badly and very quickly.

    What I'm saying is, an assailant with 'only a bat or a knife' or even an unarmed assailant who is larger, stronger, or simply enraged/ drunk/ high can almost certainly do you serious damage before you can make your weapon ready to fire.

    Drawing your weapon is a big decision and firing it is an even bigger one; you don't need extra stuff to think about / do if this happens.

    That said, training is vital. Don't carry your SigPro with a live round in the chamber until you are truly comfortable doing so. Be absolutely familiar with the manual of arms of your weapon. I strongly recommend that you seek professional training if you are uncomfortable.
    Last edited by kenjihara; 01-30-2007 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #45
    mw1311's Avatar
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    I have no problem drawing and cocking the hammer at the same time...practice it (with empty gun) and see how easy it is. This way i always have a nice SA Pull.

  6. #46
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  7. #47
    mw1311's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -gunut- View Post
    Is a glock with no external safety any different from him carrying the Sig with hammer back? I never really understood this.
    A Glock imo is a SA since there is no way one can pull the trigger twice if you bad primer or whatever. You'll have to rack the slide and cock the stricker manually to be able to pull the trigger again. I know that people say it is a double action only because of the way the internal parts function, but for me it's only a double action if you can pull the trigger and drop the hammer/striker over and over again.
    To answer your question; it is essentially the same just that on the glock you have the additional "safety" built into your trigger.

  8. #48
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  9. #49
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
    I really like the 220. I have shot my friends several times ...
    Did he live?

  11. #51
    kenjihara is offline Junior Member
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    Second-Strike Capability

    Quote Originally Posted by mw1311 View Post
    A Glock imo is a SA since there is no way one can pull the trigger twice if you bad primer or whatever. You'll have to rack the slide and cock the stricker manually to be able to pull the trigger again. I know that people say it is a double action only because of the way the internal parts function, but for me it's only a double action if you can pull the trigger and drop the hammer/striker over and over again.
    To answer your question; it is essentially the same just that on the glock you have the additional "safety" built into your trigger.
    Honestly, how many bad primers have you run across in centerfire ammo? I don't buy the spendiest stuff, but I don't buy junk ammo, either, and everything I've shot went bang. I'm now learning to do my own reloading, but I still don't anticipate needing second strike capability. If it didn't go bang on the first try, why try again? Rack the slide and try the next round.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenjihara View Post
    Honestly, how many bad primers have you run across in centerfire ammo? I don't buy the spendiest stuff, but I don't buy junk ammo, either, and everything I've shot went bang. I'm now learning to do my own reloading, but I still don't anticipate needing second strike capability. If it didn't go bang on the first try, why try again? Rack the slide and try the next round.
    I didn't go into the clearing of a squid or what's better..pulling trigger again or racking the slide cause it was off topic. but since you already ask; I had quite a few squids in the past, some with Remington UMC and some with WWB. After pulling the Trigger again the round went off.

  13. #53
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  14. #54
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    I think you need to keep one in the pipe, because if the situation's bad enough for you to clear leather, it's life or death - or it is that way with me - and the weapon needs to be able to function. 25/100th of a second needed to cycle the slide (provided you have your second hand free to work the slide) may be all you have between answering questions to a LEO investigator and being a statistic in the AG annual report.

  15. #55
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    My Dad who is 54yo had 2 people try to rob him 7 days apart, one with a gun, and one with a knife. The poker game was first. Door locked. A guy apparently waiting outside came in as someone left pulled a gun and demanded money. The dealer pulled out his .38 snubbie and fired 2 shots. Missed, but I bet the guy SHP. A week later dad was getting luggage out at a hotel with his girl. In an (unzipped) overnight bag he had his ruger mark II. A guy with a steak knife rushed him and as he went for his gun he had to stop and grab the guy's arm to keep from getting stabbed. He dropped his bag and his gun fell out.The guy picked it up and ran (thank GOD!). Instead of being stabbed he was only cut on his arm. He approached me about techniques and guns. 2 days after that he got himself a .38 snubbie, and carries daily.

  16. #56
    jimg11 is offline Member
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    Unhappy Cocked and Unlocked?

    I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would carry a P220 with the hammer back and no safety. Back when I went from the cocked and lock Colt 1911 to a Double action S&W model 39 I believed some of the stuff that I read about the bad qualities of the DA auto and I took a new hammer drop link and modified it so that it would not drop the hammer when putting the safety on. This gave me a cocked and locked S&W Model 39-2. But I did not like the way the gun worked on the range. I found that carrying a DA auto as it was designed a much better approach. Cock the hammer with the trigger weather it is a Glock Sig or S&W. If you have a problem with the long double action trigger pull. Either PRACTICE or go back to the 1911 design. With the traditional DA my practice is mostly 2 shot bursts from leather DA/SA. IE drop hammer reholster draw fire 2 shots drop hammer reholster draw and fire 2 etc.

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