Originally Posted by L8models

I guess I made that sound alot worse than it is. I should have said I should have became 100% fimiliar with my p220 before I made it my carry weapon. I have never carried a handgun without a manuel safety, with the excemption of my xd-40. I have very good knowledge of how semi-auto's operate. However, I might not should have had one in the chamber and cocked but, I am always 110% responsible and alert when I carry so, it wasn't a problem. But accidents do happen.

Semantics is so important on a forum isn't it. I actually thought I knew what you meant and when you clarified things was proven right. Any change takes a little while to gain comfort. Pop that 220 at the range a few more times and it will be on your hip (or elsewhere) regularly. I really miss mine.

Originally Posted by reconNinja

When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

What are yall's thoughts on this?

Sounds silly to me... I think your approach on this is more dangerous to yourself and to others. Your only half prepared for a problem, both with your weapon and with your mind set... (Remember, you asked!)

On the difference between the DA Sig trigger and the Glock, the Glock is MUCH easier to pull than the Sig while in DA...
Unless the Glock is in a holster that covers the trigger, I don't feel safe carrying it with one in the pipe... But, that may be just me...
My Walther P99 has a DA/SA trigger pull, and I carry it with one in the pipe in the DA mode. Never in the SA position, just like my Sig's...

There are several likely scenarios where U will only be able to use 1 hand to get the gun to fire - or, U will only have TIME to get the gun to fire. If someone walks up to U in a parking lot w/ a gun, and demands your money or they will kill U. I'd like to see U pull out that gun in time, work the slide, and still fire before they do. Time is the consideration there.

Or, same scenario, and they are w/i reach. Feign getting your wallet - go for your gun, and use your offhand to push theirs away just for the second U need to fire.

This is why I carry with one in the pipe AND a full mag. The sig sytem with the internal safeties give me the confidence of a reduced chance for an accident. An empty chamber is worthless in a stressful combat situation.

Originally Posted by reconNinja

instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

I was saying that's what I wouldn't do. I don't need input on what I wouldn't do, thx

gunut- Glocks have roughly 9lb trigger pulls, which is about the same amount as a Sig when the hammer is down, if that helps.

Pardon me all to hell,didnt realize that stating the LEGAL ASPECT of such an action would piss you off,I never claimed you WOULD do it.

Originally Posted by reconNinja

instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

I was saying that's what I wouldn't do. I don't need input on what I wouldn't do, thx

gunut- Glocks have roughly 9lb trigger pulls, which is about the same amount as a Sig when the hammer is down, if that helps.

Maybe the NY trigger. Stock glock is around 5lb. So cany anyone answer my question?

Originally Posted by -gunut-

Is a glock with no external safety any different from him carrying the Sig with hammer back? I never really understood this.

I assume you mean this one?
Yes! The Sig in the SA mode has a very fine and light trigger pull. One of the finest of any DA/SA pistol out there. The Glock has more of a double action feel to it and requires much more travel to fire. It's hard to explain, since there is really no comparison between the two. I have both and would never consider carrying the Sig in SA mode, in any manor...
The Glock gives me the EBG's however, if it's not in a holster that covers the trigger guard completely... I think Glocks are inherently more dangerous because of their triggers, but with good carry practices, they are as safe as any thing else...

Originally Posted by Hal8000

I assume you mean this one?
Yes! The Sig in the SA mode has a very fine and light trigger pull. One of the finest of any DA/SA pistol out there. The Glock has more of a double action feel to it and requires much more travel to fire. It's hard to explain, since there is really no comparison between the two. I have both and would never consider carrying the Sig in SA mode, in any manor...
The Glock gives me the EBG's however, if it's not in a holster that covers the trigger guard completely... I think Glocks are inherently more dangerous because of their triggers, but with good carry practices, they are as safe as any thing else...

Oh ok. With a good holster would it be bad to carry other guns with tuffer triggers in condition 1?

The only one I can think of, and the only one I ever have carried cocked was the 1911, with the safety on (locked)...
Why would you want to carry a DA/SA in the SA mode? That's why it has the DA feature...

I keep my USPc cocked and locked - it is DA/SA - but, it has a frame safety just like a 1911. I would not keep a DA/SA cocked with a slide mounted safety, however.

Originally Posted by Hal8000

The only one I can think of, and the only one I ever have carried cocked was the 1911, with the safety on (locked)...
Why would you want to carry a DA/SA in the SA mode? That's why it has the DA feature...

Just because you have the same shot every time and don't have to deal with the DA. I would not do it but I see why someone would. It would be nice if other guns offered the ability to cock and lock so poeple could do it with an extra safety. I don't use the DA on my HK. I have it C&L and just know that I have the DA if for some reason I pull the trigger and nothing happens. The second stike capabiity makes me happy

Sorry about my incorrect information on the Glock trigger pulls; I was thinking about Smith's Sigma series.

Anyway, the way I see it there's a greater chance of me using the fact that my chamber is free to my advantage than of me using a loaded chamber to my advantage.

I think if I'm racing against time to the point where racking my slide makes a difference, I'm probably screwed already; because I can cock a gun while I'm still pulling it up.

Now, if my sigpro had a safety that would be a different story, I'd probably just keep it locked. But having the trigger down isn't enough to satisfy my nerves...

xxx

Originally Posted by reconNinja

When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

What are yall's thoughts on this?

I've thought the same thing with 1911's. However, the Sigs were designed to operate like a double-action revolver. No safety there, either.

My thoughts are to use whatever safety is on the gun your'e carrying. Just be familiar with that gun intimately before putting it into carry rotation. If it's a Glock, you've got the 3 safeties that disengage, just keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. Same thing with Sigs. When it's an H&K, carry loaded with one in the chamber, with the safety on, same with Berettas and 3rd gen Smiths, etc. Make maximum use of the design of the gun.

The purpose of carrying a weapon is negated if you can't get it into play fast enough. Under pressure, racking a slide is difficult and slow, unless you've practiced it so much that it's incredibly fast. It's not the way the designers intended the gun to be carried. They envisioned carrying with one in the pipe and decocked.

So using the design features of the gun maximizes the chance the weapon serves its intended purpose.

I keep getting flack about carrying a 1911 in Condition Two. The pros are right, it needs to be carried Condition One. I'm not comfortable like that, so I just don't carry the 1911. Solves that problem nicely.

If you're to the point where you have to pull your weapon, I'd think the next step is to be ready to shoot to stop the attack. Intimidation is probably not going to work at that point.

That's a rambling post, but you get my point....

Originally Posted by reconNinja

Sorry about my incorrect information on the Glock trigger pulls; I was thinking about Smith's Sigma series.

Anyway, the way I see it there's a greater chance of me using the fact that my chamber is free to my advantage than of me using a loaded chamber to my advantage.

I think if I'm racing against time to the point where racking my slide makes a difference, I'm probably screwed already; because I can cock a gun while I'm still pulling it up.

Now, if my sigpro had a safety that would be a different story, I'd probably just keep it locked. But having the trigger down isn't enough to satisfy my nerves...

I carried my Sig P226 3 years one in the chamber and decocked. As someone said you can hit the hammer with a brick while decocked it will not fire.

Originally Posted by Nastynewt

I carried my Sig P226 3 years one in the chamber and decocked. As someone said you can hit the hammer with a brick while decocked it will not fire.

This is because the hammer does NOT rest on the firing pin. When decocked, there is about a centimeter (give or take) of lcearance between the firing pin and the hammer...I like this very much...

I also love how the decocker in teh Sig is slow and deliberate...ever activated the decocker in the Beretta PX4? Hehe...point it down when you do!!!

Yes there is a difference. Because the Glock trigger has 1/2 inch of travel and a 5.5 lb trigger pull (for the standard models), it is considered a double action pistol. With the Sig cocked, there is a lighter trigger pull (5.0 lbs according to the website specs) and less trigger travel. I have shot Glocks in competition and Sigs at the indoor range. There is definitely a difference in my opinion and I would not want to be carrying a Sig cocked and unlocked. While the trigger pull may be close in the specs, the glock trigger feels considerably heavier for me than a cocked Sig. There is also a distinct difference in my experience with the trigger travel. I might also note that in USPSA competition, it is permissible to holster guns that have a cocked and locked mode, such as 1911s and double action pistols, such as Glocks. But, if you are shooting a gun like a Sig or a Beretta that has an external hammer and no safety to engage when the gun is cocked, you are not permitted to holster the gun cocked because it is considered an unsafe situation. It must be holstered with the hammer down.

Originally Posted by reconNinja

When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

What are yall's thoughts on this?

I don't think that racking the slide back on your pistol is going to be any more of an 'intimidation factor' than pointing a loaded gun at them already is. You may be watching too many movies.

The SigPro is a DA/ SA and as such is designed to be carried with one in the chamber and the hammer down. The double action trigger on the SigPro is heavy enough to prevent accidental discharges in the hands of anyone who trains properly with it. Besides, with the hammer decocked on a live round you can still quickly cock the hammer if you need that sweet, light single action trigger (if you have the time!).

I'm assuming that you have your carry permit. I'm surprised that the instructor who licensed you didn't go over this sort of stuff, but maybe they didn't for legal reasons. If you need to draw your weapon in self-defense you will almost certainly have next to zero time to make things happen. In less than the time it takes to think about it an assailant, even unarmed or wielding a knife, can close a distance of seven yards or more. The point to having a gun is that it's a force multiplier; it means not having to defend yourself at contact distances. If you draw your weapon and point it at a legitimate threat and they still remain a threat (ie coming towards you, cornering you, bringing an edged or contact weapon to bear on you, pointing their own gun at you) you should have a gun in your hand that will go BANG without any more fiddling with it. If you need it you will need it very badly and very quickly.

What I'm saying is, an assailant with 'only a bat or a knife' or even an unarmed assailant who is larger, stronger, or simply enraged/ drunk/ high can almost certainly do you serious damage before you can make your weapon ready to fire.

Drawing your weapon is a big decision and firing it is an even bigger one; you don't need extra stuff to think about / do if this happens.

That said, training is vital. Don't carry your SigPro with a live round in the chamber until you are truly comfortable doing so. Be absolutely familiar with the manual of arms of your weapon. I strongly recommend that you seek professional training if you are uncomfortable.

I have no problem drawing and cocking the hammer at the same time...practice it (with empty gun) and see how easy it is. This way i always have a nice SA Pull.

Originally Posted by -gunut-

Is a glock with no external safety any different from him carrying the Sig with hammer back? I never really understood this.

A Glock imo is a SA since there is no way one can pull the trigger twice if you bad primer or whatever. You'll have to rack the slide and cock the stricker manually to be able to pull the trigger again. I know that people say it is a double action only because of the way the internal parts function, but for me it's only a double action if you can pull the trigger and drop the hammer/striker over and over again.
To answer your question; it is essentially the same just that on the glock you have the additional "safety" built into your trigger.

Originally Posted by Dragon

I really like the 220. I have shot my friends several times ...

Did he live?