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  1. #21
    L8models's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco View Post
    Jeff Cooper has mentioned that carrying in Condition Zero like this isn't horribly dangerous as long as you have a firm holster that encloses the trigger guard. I guess that means it's only borderline dangerous!

    There's no reason to do this; the SIG pistols are perfectly safe when carried as intended - in Condition Two. Do everyone a favor and don't carry a pistol you're unfamiliar with. When you negligently shoot yourself in the ass, or shoot someone else unintentionally, you'll make all of us look bad.
    Well, considering I have been carrying the sig the "right" way since I first posted that, no one's been shot in the ass thus far and there are no marks on me. So, it's all good.

  2. #22
    reconNinja is offline Junior Member
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    When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    What are yall's thoughts on this?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    What are yall's thoughts on this?
    well firing a shot in the air is negligent disharge no matter what,eveyone within range is now in danger,not a good idea,
    Even if you do end up having to shoot the BG they will probably charge you for it.(the negligent discharge that is)

  4. #24
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    Is a glock with no external safety any different from him carrying the Sig with hammer back? I never really understood this.

  5. #25
    reconNinja is offline Junior Member
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    instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    I was saying that's what I wouldn't do. I don't need input on what I wouldn't do, thx

    gunut- Glocks have roughly 9lb trigger pulls, which is about the same amount as a Sig when the hammer is down, if that helps.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    I was saying that's what I wouldn't do. I don't need input on what I wouldn't do, thx

    gunut- Glocks have roughly 9lb trigger pulls, which is about the same amount as a Sig when the hammer is down, if that helps.

    To my knowledge, a Glock trgger isn't that heavy.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8models View Post
    I guess I made that sound alot worse than it is. I should have said I should have became 100% fimiliar with my p220 before I made it my carry weapon. I have never carried a handgun without a manuel safety, with the excemption of my xd-40. I have very good knowledge of how semi-auto's operate. However, I might not should have had one in the chamber and cocked but, I am always 110% responsible and alert when I carry so, it wasn't a problem. But accidents do happen.
    Semantics is so important on a forum isn't it. I actually thought I knew what you meant and when you clarified things was proven right. Any change takes a little while to gain comfort. Pop that 220 at the range a few more times and it will be on your hip (or elsewhere) regularly. I really miss mine.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    What are yall's thoughts on this?
    Sounds silly to me... I think your approach on this is more dangerous to yourself and to others. Your only half prepared for a problem, both with your weapon and with your mind set... (Remember, you asked!)

    On the difference between the DA Sig trigger and the Glock, the Glock is MUCH easier to pull than the Sig while in DA...
    Unless the Glock is in a holster that covers the trigger, I don't feel safe carrying it with one in the pipe... But, that may be just me...
    My Walther P99 has a DA/SA trigger pull, and I carry it with one in the pipe in the DA mode. Never in the SA position, just like my Sig's...

  9. #29
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    There are several likely scenarios where U will only be able to use 1 hand to get the gun to fire - or, U will only have TIME to get the gun to fire. If someone walks up to U in a parking lot w/ a gun, and demands your money or they will kill U. I'd like to see U pull out that gun in time, work the slide, and still fire before they do. Time is the consideration there.

    Or, same scenario, and they are w/i reach. Feign getting your wallet - go for your gun, and use your offhand to push theirs away just for the second U need to fire.

  10. #30
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    This is why I carry with one in the pipe AND a full mag. The sig sytem with the internal safeties give me the confidence of a reduced chance for an accident. An empty chamber is worthless in a stressful combat situation.


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    I was saying that's what I wouldn't do. I don't need input on what I wouldn't do, thx

    gunut- Glocks have roughly 9lb trigger pulls, which is about the same amount as a Sig when the hammer is down, if that helps.
    Pardon me all to hell,didnt realize that stating the LEGAL ASPECT of such an action would piss you off,I never claimed you WOULD do it.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    I was saying that's what I wouldn't do. I don't need input on what I wouldn't do, thx

    gunut- Glocks have roughly 9lb trigger pulls, which is about the same amount as a Sig when the hammer is down, if that helps.
    Maybe the NY trigger. Stock glock is around 5lb. So cany anyone answer my question?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by -gunut- View Post
    Is a glock with no external safety any different from him carrying the Sig with hammer back? I never really understood this.
    I assume you mean this one?
    Yes! The Sig in the SA mode has a very fine and light trigger pull. One of the finest of any DA/SA pistol out there. The Glock has more of a double action feel to it and requires much more travel to fire. It's hard to explain, since there is really no comparison between the two. I have both and would never consider carrying the Sig in SA mode, in any manor...
    The Glock gives me the EBG's however, if it's not in a holster that covers the trigger guard completely... I think Glocks are inherently more dangerous because of their triggers, but with good carry practices, they are as safe as any thing else...

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal8000 View Post
    I assume you mean this one?
    Yes! The Sig in the SA mode has a very fine and light trigger pull. One of the finest of any DA/SA pistol out there. The Glock has more of a double action feel to it and requires much more travel to fire. It's hard to explain, since there is really no comparison between the two. I have both and would never consider carrying the Sig in SA mode, in any manor...
    The Glock gives me the EBG's however, if it's not in a holster that covers the trigger guard completely... I think Glocks are inherently more dangerous because of their triggers, but with good carry practices, they are as safe as any thing else...
    Oh ok. With a good holster would it be bad to carry other guns with tuffer triggers in condition 1?

  15. #35
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    The only one I can think of, and the only one I ever have carried cocked was the 1911, with the safety on (locked)...
    Why would you want to carry a DA/SA in the SA mode? That's why it has the DA feature...

  16. #36
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    I keep my USPc cocked and locked - it is DA/SA - but, it has a frame safety just like a 1911. I would not keep a DA/SA cocked with a slide mounted safety, however.
    Last edited by Shipwreck; 10-06-2006 at 11:15 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal8000 View Post
    The only one I can think of, and the only one I ever have carried cocked was the 1911, with the safety on (locked)...
    Why would you want to carry a DA/SA in the SA mode? That's why it has the DA feature...
    Just because you have the same shot every time and don't have to deal with the DA. I would not do it but I see why someone would. It would be nice if other guns offered the ability to cock and lock so poeple could do it with an extra safety. I don't use the DA on my HK. I have it C&L and just know that I have the DA if for some reason I pull the trigger and nothing happens. The second stike capabiity makes me happy

  18. #38
    reconNinja is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry about my incorrect information on the Glock trigger pulls; I was thinking about Smith's Sigma series.

    Anyway, the way I see it there's a greater chance of me using the fact that my chamber is free to my advantage than of me using a loaded chamber to my advantage.

    I think if I'm racing against time to the point where racking my slide makes a difference, I'm probably screwed already; because I can cock a gun while I'm still pulling it up.

    Now, if my sigpro had a safety that would be a different story, I'd probably just keep it locked. But having the trigger down isn't enough to satisfy my nerves...

  19. #39
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    xxx
    Last edited by FUBAR; 10-08-2006 at 12:29 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by reconNinja View Post
    When I have my sigpro, I keep it condition three(full mag, clear chamber). It doesn't seem like it will take any more time than it does for me to pull it out than to rack the slide as well. I can do this instantly, but I also have the option of using the cocking action as an added intimidation factor if my assailant isn't a high threat(ie, unarmed or armed with a bat or something), instead of firing a shot in the air or something which could potentially be dangerous.

    What are yall's thoughts on this?
    I've thought the same thing with 1911's. However, the Sigs were designed to operate like a double-action revolver. No safety there, either.

    My thoughts are to use whatever safety is on the gun your'e carrying. Just be familiar with that gun intimately before putting it into carry rotation. If it's a Glock, you've got the 3 safeties that disengage, just keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. Same thing with Sigs. When it's an H&K, carry loaded with one in the chamber, with the safety on, same with Berettas and 3rd gen Smiths, etc. Make maximum use of the design of the gun.

    The purpose of carrying a weapon is negated if you can't get it into play fast enough. Under pressure, racking a slide is difficult and slow, unless you've practiced it so much that it's incredibly fast. It's not the way the designers intended the gun to be carried. They envisioned carrying with one in the pipe and decocked.

    So using the design features of the gun maximizes the chance the weapon serves its intended purpose.

    I keep getting flack about carrying a 1911 in Condition Two. The pros are right, it needs to be carried Condition One. I'm not comfortable like that, so I just don't carry the 1911. Solves that problem nicely.

    If you're to the point where you have to pull your weapon, I'd think the next step is to be ready to shoot to stop the attack. Intimidation is probably not going to work at that point.

    That's a rambling post, but you get my point....

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