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  1. #1
    RiverDog is offline Junior Member
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    Ruger LCR (.357 mag or .38 Special)

    It is very interesting to learn what the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Science; Dallas County Forensic Laboratory had to say. At least they have starting numbers that we can make sense of when shooting. And they are all grouped. The differences between striking velocity and striking energy was an eye opener. Energy transferred was important, because that has to do with bullet size and speed.

    I thought striking velocity is a moot point. Who cares. Striking energy means something. From what I can see, it does matter what you load. Some are mush better than others. But in all of their ranges, they are very close.

    These stats don't have anything to do with bullet expansion etc.

    In the .38 special class, the 110-gr JHP (+P+) was equal to all the 9mm. But without plus power, the 9mm overtakes the .38 very easily. There is a difference.

    Above the 9mm range, you have to go to the 357 mag. What I found very interesting is there is not that much difference until you come to transfer energy. Then the 44 mag wins hands down.

    Actually, the .41 Magnum R-P 210-gr JSP blew that away.

    The .44 mag W.W 240-gr SWC won. Of course.

    This is what interests me. Although the .45 came in at much lower speeds, the Fed 230-gr FMJ came in with an exit energy second on the list. It was only the .357 mag R-P 158-gr SWC that had better exit energy. You just can't beat the .45. Although it is a bit slower, it has a punching power that is beyond nasty. I have only ever seen a round that will mushroom and continue to exit like that. That is called the Fed 230-gr FMJ.

    I shot those rounds out of an HK and it wasn't really that bad. I have not yet shot a .357 mag out of a little Ruger yet, but I know it just has to be nasty. I was thinking about the Ruger. And I still may buy one. What bothered me was the caliber. In all honesty, it is a .38 special. You can push it up to a +P or a +P+. Believe me when I tell you; +P is overkill for that little handgun. If you buy one for .357 mag, you will never shoot it. You will bring it to the range and say "Son of a fucking bitch!" That little handgun will not be fun to shoot. The +P round will be an eye opener. That gun is very,very light. It will feel so hard. You will only want to keep it in your pocket just so you don't have to shoot it. Believe me when I tell you it will feel like a rock in your hand. I hate that feeling. Revolvers are unforgiving like that. I have shot .357 out of a very, very nice S&W that was very, very heavy and built to do that. That was a boat load. Powder squirting out of the chamber and a kick that was just silly. And that was with the Clint Eastwood 9" model. I could never imagine that blast in a one and a half inch barrel weighing a half of a pound. But all is not lost.



    I have read about the gun (Ruger) for months now. I really like that gun. When I was at the shop, I did understand that it is not as small as you may think. But is is still very small. But it's a revolver, it is or larger than the Beretta Tomcat. It is a small gun, but not as small as you would think. I really wouldn't classify it as a pocket pistol. It's a very small revolver, but it isn't a pocket pistol. It's a .38 special revolver. I would not try to make it into something that is isn't. It does have a very easy action.



    Should I buy that gun and I probably will, I will buy it as a .38 special. As far as weight and construction, they are two different guns. With the .38 special, you can shoot RNL, SWC, SWC-HP (+P) and (+P+). That's just a funner gun to shoot.



    For a home defensive weapon, the (+P+) round is flat out nasty. The striking velocity is equal to the 9mm and .357 mag. So you can take it to the range and shoot 158-gr RNL and have fun. Then when you come home load it up with (+P+) rounds. It's actually a better gun in it's .38 special form. I would not buy the Ruger LCR (.357 mag). I would consider buying the Ruger LCR (.38 special). That you can shot and have fun with; and load it up with +P+ rounds if that makes you feel good. (smile) That would be my choise.

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  3. #2
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Might want to make sure you can shoot .357Mags out of the LCR. The one I own is .38Special ONLY! The rounds may look the same, but they are most definitely NOT the same rounds and are not interchangeable unless the gun is designed to shoot the .357Mags.

    .38's in a gun designed for .357Magnum = OK
    .357Mags in a gun designed for .38 Special = NOT OK ie. gun goes KAPLOWWWW in your face.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    .38's in a gun designed for .357Magnum = OK
    .357Mags in a gun designed for .38 Special = NOT OK ie. gun goes KAPLOWWWW in your face.
    Note: If .357s fit in your .38 special, there is a huge problem with your gun. See a gunsmith or send it to the manufacturer for repair. They should not fit at all.

  5. #4
    EliWolfe is offline Member HGF Gold Member
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    I have had two snubnose revolvers that I considered "shootable" with .357 loads packing more punch than the 38+Ps. One was a Ruger SP101 with a 3" barrel (my personal cutoff for snubnose designation.) The other was a S@W 649 I believe it was, "humpback" all metal with stubbed hammer for SA shots. Both of these guns weighed close to 30 oz. loaded. With that weight, they were both still a handful, but far superior to the "uncontrollable" 10-15oz. models out there. You don't get something for nothing (extra weight), but I would say both of those guns are true .357 snubbies , you just have to be reasonable with the load selection and practice with the carry load!.
    Eli

  6. #5
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overkill0084 View Post
    Note: If .357s fit in your .38 special, there is a huge problem with your gun. See a gunsmith or send it to the manufacturer for repair. They should not fit at all.
    While this is true, and I should have mentioned it, this applies to reloads as well. Just because the case is similar (.38's are shorter) that doesn't mean people can or should load .357mag loadings in a .38 case. I know it probably goes without saying for more experienced shooters/reloaders, but we are posting on an open forum and not every will have the same knowledge level. Thanks for the catch!

    I've seen up close what a hot load in a .38special can do to a persons hands and face. Was at the range when someone decided they wanted hotter loads for their .38s and blew their gun up because they thought they were interchangeable.

  7. #6
    RiverDog is offline Junior Member
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    KLCR-357 5450 .357 Mag. Hogue® Tamer™ 17.10 oz. 1.28" Replaceable, Pinned Ramp $575.00
    LCR 5401 .38 Special Hogue® Tamer™ 13.50 oz. 1.28" Replaceable, Pinned Ramp $525.00
    LCR-LG 5402 .38 Special Crimson Trace® Lasergrips® 13.00 oz. 1.31" Replaceable, Pinned Ramp $792.00
    LCR-BGXS 5403 .38 Special Hogue® Boot Grip 13.00 oz. 1.28" XS® Standard Dot Tritium $575.00

    Look at the weight. They are two different guns. (17.10 oz, 13.50 oz)

  8. #7
    RiverDog is offline Junior Member
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    I came very, very close to buying the Ruger LCR.

    It is just flat out dependable. The only thing that will stop you from firing is a spent round and then you just have to pull the trigger again. It dosn't get better than that. There are so many good things that have to be said for a revolver.

    Why, I also like the Ruger because is it is silky smooth. Actually, better than the S&W. But they are two different guns. You have to understand what you perfer in a double or single action type of handgun. They both work well. I just feel I'll never use the S&W first shoot option. I am the type that never carries a chambered round. If I have a revolver, the hammer will never be up. So that is a moot point.

    Why I like the Ruger LCR is because it is a silky smooth machine. It is not a tiny pocket pistol. I noticed that at my shop. It is small, but not as small as you would think. The KLCR is even a bit heavier. In my mind, if you are looking into a small revolver, why go the .357 mag and a heaver gun? Once you load it up it becomes heavier. So now you have a handgun that weighs 50% heavier just so you can shoot a .357 mag round.

    I have thought about this. Why not just buy the Ruger LCR and load it with +P rounds? A .38 with a +P round is flat out nasty. Your gun will still be somewhat light.

    Me? I will buy the Ruger fitted for .38 special. That is the gun.

  9. #8
    harleytech's Avatar
    harleytech is offline Junior Member
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    17 oz. is still lite for me....Plus I can shoot both 38's and .357's....
    Recoil is nothing in an LCR...Get a Grip...

  10. #9
    AWGD8 is offline Junior Member
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    I have an LCR 357 and this is my first revolver also. I find the 357 Mag ammo very fun to shoot! Whoever said their hands hurt after shooting a 357 are bunch of sissy... You should stick to 22LR for God sake!
    I never shot a revolver all my life and when I tried the LCR 357 mag ammo, I was hook! I love it! I wish it came as 6 or 8 rounds instead of 5.

    I practice using a 38 +p ammo bec. it is a lot cheaper. If the the 357 Mag ammo is cheaper, I would use it all the time. My only problem with the LCR 357 is , it takes time to become accurate with it. I'm accurate at 8 yards, but it is hard at 16 yards. I would say using a 357 Magnum ammo would be harder to become accurate past 10yards due to harder follow up shots like the Glock 27 subcompact. The LCR is so easy to conceal and very light even when loaded. Honestly, the Hogue grip for the LCR 357 helps a lot to absorb the recoil. I find the recoil of the 357 the same as my old Glock 27 40S&W subcompact. I also have a Glock 39 subcompact 45GAP and this thing is a brick to conceal if i would compare it to my Ruger.

    I am contemplating on selling my mint RUger LCR 357 or trade to Glock 30. I want more ammo than the standard 5 rounds of my ruger. If you want deep concealment pocket carry gun, the LCR 357 is a must have. You can change the stock hogue grip to boot type.

  11. #10
    harleytech's Avatar
    harleytech is offline Junior Member
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    Unless you are in an all out fire fight, (which Probley will never happen). I don't see the need for 20 rnd. mags..Where ya goin' all packed up like that...Lookin' for trouble..? 5 rnds. of .357 Magnum would be plenty for SD...Use the big mags at the Range...JMHO.

  12. #11
    hideit's Avatar
    hideit is offline Senior Member
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    i always believed to buy a 357 but only use 357 for SD which i would hope never to pull a round off
    thus the 357 for resale value
    i would ONLY shoot/practice with 38spls

  13. #12
    Jerrshoe is offline Junior Member
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    The LCR in 357 is a great weapon. Small enough to fit in a pocket holster (which is the best holster for self defense) and powerful enough to stop a crackhead. If you miss 5 times...you're probably dead anyway.

  14. #13
    chup's Avatar
    chup is offline Junior Member
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    I shot the hell out of my LCR 357 with 357 ammo this past summer. I have no problems with recoil or follow up shots. I had a little better accuracy with the LCR than my SP101. I like 357 Snubs. I carry these two guns daily. I don't feel a need for a high cap gun when I have 10 rounds of 357 plus reloads.

  15. #14
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Just remember Ruger LCR .38s aren't meant to shot +p or +p+ according to there manual from what I have been hearing. With that being said I would get the .357 version so you know it will handle the +p or +P+ .38 loads.

  16. #15
    Mr.Bluster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWGD8 View Post
    ... My only problem with the LCR 357 is , it takes time to become accurate with it. I'm accurate at 8 yards, but it is hard at 16 yards.
    Saving my drachmas for an LCR in .38+P caliber. (Although also considering a S&W Airlight. Opinions on those welcomed, BTW.) I will shoot it at the range to familiarize myself with it but it is not a target pistol, it is an up-close personal defense weapon. And the folks who say 5 rounds is enuff are correct. People envision an action-movie, Die Hard kind of shootout. Not going to happen.

  17. #16
    Russ is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDog View Post
    It is very interesting to learn what the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Science; Dallas County Forensic Laboratory had to say. At least they have starting numbers that we can make sense of when shooting. And they are all grouped. The differences between striking velocity and striking energy was an eye opener. Energy transferred was important, because that has to do with bullet size and speed.

    I thought striking velocity is a moot point. Who cares. Striking energy means something. From what I can see, it does matter what you load. Some are mush better than others. But in all of their ranges, they are very close.

    These stats don't have anything to do with bullet expansion etc.

    In the .38 special class, the 110-gr JHP (+P+) was equal to all the 9mm. But without plus power, the 9mm overtakes the .38 very easily. There is a difference.

    Above the 9mm range, you have to go to the 357 mag. What I found very interesting is there is not that much difference until you come to transfer energy. Then the 44 mag wins hands down.

    Actually, the .41 Magnum R-P 210-gr JSP blew that away.

    The .44 mag W.W 240-gr SWC won. Of course.

    This is what interests me. Although the .45 came in at much lower speeds, the Fed 230-gr FMJ came in with an exit energy second on the list. It was only the .357 mag R-P 158-gr SWC that had better exit energy. You just can't beat the .45. Although it is a bit slower, it has a punching power that is beyond nasty. I have only ever seen a round that will mushroom and continue to exit like that. That is called the Fed 230-gr FMJ.

    I shot those rounds out of an HK and it wasn't really that bad. I have not yet shot a .357 mag out of a little Ruger yet, but I know it just has to be nasty. I was thinking about the Ruger. And I still may buy one. What bothered me was the caliber. In all honesty, it is a .38 special. You can push it up to a +P or a +P+. Believe me when I tell you; +P is overkill for that little handgun. If you buy one for .357 mag, you will never shoot it. You will bring it to the range and say "Son of a fucking bitch!" That little handgun will not be fun to shoot. The +P round will be an eye opener. That gun is very,very light. It will feel so hard. You will only want to keep it in your pocket just so you don't have to shoot it. Believe me when I tell you it will feel like a rock in your hand. I hate that feeling. Revolvers are unforgiving like that. I have shot .357 out of a very, very nice S&W that was very, very heavy and built to do that. That was a boat load. Powder squirting out of the chamber and a kick that was just silly. And that was with the Clint Eastwood 9" model. I could never imagine that blast in a one and a half inch barrel weighing a half of a pound. But all is not lost.



    I have read about the gun (Ruger) for months now. I really like that gun. When I was at the shop, I did understand that it is not as small as you may think. But is is still very small. But it's a revolver, it is or larger than the Beretta Tomcat. It is a small gun, but not as small as you would think. I really wouldn't classify it as a pocket pistol. It's a very small revolver, but it isn't a pocket pistol. It's a .38 special revolver. I would not try to make it into something that is isn't. It does have a very easy action.



    Should I buy that gun and I probably will, I will buy it as a .38 special. As far as weight and construction, they are two different guns. With the .38 special, you can shoot RNL, SWC, SWC-HP (+P) and (+P+). That's just a funner gun to shoot.



    For a home defensive weapon, the (+P+) round is flat out nasty. The striking velocity is equal to the 9mm and .357 mag. So you can take it to the range and shoot 158-gr RNL and have fun. Then when you come home load it up with (+P+) rounds. It's actually a better gun in it's .38 special form. I would not buy the Ruger LCR (.357 mag). I would consider buying the Ruger LCR (.38 special). That you can shot and have fun with; and load it up with +P+ rounds if that makes you feel good. (smile) That would be my choise.
    Dear Snub Nose Fan you just got snubbed

    I realize this thread started long ago and if you purchased the Ruger LCR 357 or for that matter any snub nose revolver (2 inch barrel) I am sorry.

    After you click on this link and read the ballistics of a 357 mag fired from a 2 inch barrel you will unload your gun for a 3 inch semi auto if you use it as a ccw.

    I was very depressed to read from multiple sites the 357 shot from a snub nose is close in comparison to a 9 mm +P round fired from my Beretta Nano with a 3 inch barrel. The 357 is an excellent round if fired from a 4 inch + barrel but the snub nose (2 inch) makes the 357 a recoil beast with no bite.

    BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Calibers/Cartridges


    Russ

  18. #17
    prof_fate is offline Member
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    I guess if you are a revolver person...you want a revolver.

    However, unless it's 357 or other magnum a 9 +p will out perform it balistically and holds more rounds....and is probably easier to shoot...seems like a no brainer. Yes, the LCR or is lighter and I suppose that may be a factor to consider.

    Barrel length affect accuracy of course, but it also has an impact on velocity. Every inch of barrel is worth about 75fps in bullet velocity. Most small autos will have 3" or longer barrel compared to the sub 2" snubby revolver.

    I've shot a 38 snubby and OMG! Ever other shot I had to regrip the gun - and completely stop firing to do it. It was not something I'd want to have to rely on in an emergency.

    YMMV

  19. #18
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
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    all ballistic comparisons end the moment you put a round into the bad guys forehead. he will not know if its a .380 or a 9mm +P or a .357 mag using exploding tipped nerve gas bullets. hit your target and make it count.

  20. #19
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Whether or not the .357 will be the same ballistically as a 9mm +p. The .357 will have more mass and leave a bigger hole. That in itself says alot to me.

  21. #20
    Jon54 is offline Junior Member
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    I just bought a .38 LCR and love the gun. It is indeed designed to shoot +P rounds and it has +P on the barrel. Sunday I shot mine for the first time. Now at the time, I didn't think the recoil was that bad. I was dead on at 6 yards putting all 5 shots in a circle the size of a coffee cup. I shot 50 rounds of standard ammo and 50 +P. I think the bullet size was 125 gr. Anyway, when I woke up Monday am, my right wrist was sore. I also noted that as I shot, I noticed a bunch of folks watching this little cannon.

    I do know that .357 is more powerful than a .38 but I suspect there are thousands of folks walking around with 380's and .25 pocket pistols. I am going to be packing 110 gr +P rounds when I have this pistol in my pocket. By pocket, I mean my coat pocket. It will fit in a pair of slacks but it is noticable. When I am at work (Office environ), I am seriously considering an ankle holster. I've seen one in a Galco lite and it was totally unnoticable.

    Lastly, I bought mine on Galleryofguns.com and paid a total of $383+taxes and fees. Very clean and cheap transaction.

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