I have an LCP that has to go back.

I'm still carrying it every day, and I still shoot it regularly. I just don't drop it. I also don't shoot lead bullets in it, anymore, 'cause it doesn't like them. Other than that, it's fine. I don't consider this any more of a disaster than those KelTec owners did, who found out their particular guns needed a 'fluff and buff,' right out of the box.

Of course, I would recommend that the KelTec owners who seem to be enjoying this so much, don't drop their guns, either. After all, they are mostly the same folks who said the Ruger was a clone of the P3AT, so...

I mean who really knows if Ruger is really 'the devil' for selling a bad gun...or if they are just a good company for owning up to a mistake. Maybe KelTec is just keeping their fingers crossed.

The owner of my local gunshop advised me against a purchase of the L.C.P this summer. He could have sold it to me at a premium when supply was low instead he said that I should wait until supply stabilized and see if any quality issues were going to arise.
It is dissapointing to see Ruger having these quality issues but gratifying to see dealers with more than the bottom line in mind.

Originally Posted by revolvers&w

The owner of my local gunshop advised me against a purchase of the L.C.P this summer. He could have sold it to me at a premium when supply was low instead he said that I should wait until supply stabilized and see if any quality issues were going to arise.
It is dissapointing to see Ruger having these quality issues but gratifying to see dealers with more than the bottom line in mind.

Wow, that's unheard of. Atleast at any shop I've ever been to.

-Jeff-

Originally Posted by Bisley

I'm still carrying it every day, and I still shoot it regularly. I just don't drop it. I also don't shoot lead bullets in it, anymore, 'cause it doesn't like them. Other than that, it's fine. I don't consider this any more of a disaster than those KelTec owners did, who found out their particular guns needed a 'fluff and buff,' right out of the box.

I don't know about a "fluff and buff." My P32 and P3AT have run perfectly right out of the box, and have the P3ATs of several colleagues. Anyway, minor functional improvements done at the owner's option are hardly the same thing as a widespread recall of a dangerous pistol.

Of course, I would recommend that the KelTec owners who seem to be enjoying this so much, don't drop their guns, either. After all, they are mostly the same folks who said the Ruger was a clone of the P3AT, so...

Yes, it appears Ruger cannot successfully copy either a Glock or a KelTec.

I mean who really knows if Ruger is really 'the devil' for selling a bad gun...or if they are just a good company for owning up to a mistake.

It's not a matter of being a "good company." Dangerous products have to be recalled if the company wants to avoid lawsuits and remain in business.

I'm not saying Ruger is the devil...just that their pistol design engineers appear incompetent. Drop-safe guns have existed for decades, but Ruger can't seem to get it right - on two guns in a row now.

I'm glad Ruger fans like their unsafe guns so much that they can be bought off with a spare magazine, though.

Originally Posted by Bisley

I'm still carrying it every day, and I still shoot it regularly. I just don't drop it.

Then with that logic, you should take out the seat belts in your car. It's still OK to drive it, just don't crash it. You're that sure-handed that you can guarantee you'll never drop the gun? You should have been a receiver in the NFL or a baseball player then, they both could use you.

I am not that naive/arrogant/(insert adjective here) to think that I will never drop a gun. I know there are these things called "accidents" that unless you're a psychic, you can't predict. It's nice to have some safety devices around just in case.

Originally Posted by Mike Barham

It's not a matter of being a "good company." Dangerous products have to be recalled if the company wants to avoid lawsuits and remain in business.

You are right about avoiding lawsuits, but, they also did not need to provide shipping charges both ways, nor did they need to provide a conciliatory mag with the repair. Like you though, I would take a hard look at any future Ruger products and let them be on the market a while before I purchased another one. How times change, last Ruger's I looked at were back in the 70's and it was at or near the top of all lists (depending on the model) as "the gun to have in your collection".

Originally Posted by Todd

Then with that logic, you should take out the seat belts in your car. It's still OK to drive it, just don't crash it. You're that sure-handed that you can guarantee you'll never drop the gun? You should have been a receiver in the NFL or a baseball player then, they both could use you.

I am not that naive/arrogant/(insert adjective here) to think that I will never drop a gun. I know there are these things called "accidents" that unless you're a psychic, you can't predict. It's nice to have some safety devices around just in case.

No need to get yourself worked up over it.

There are certain cardinal rules that old s like me grew up with, in regard to guns. Back before the government took over the job of protecting everyone from themselves, dads and grandpas and big brothers and uncles all taught their kids to never sweep a gun across anyone, never put your finger in the trigger guard till ready to fire, and never, ever drop a gun...because not so long ago, any gun might go off if dropped. I grew up in such an environment and the thought of actually dropping a gun is blasphemy to me. I won't say that I have never violated any of those rules, or that I could not ever drop a gun, but the likelihood is very low.

But thanks for the lecture, anyway. You are a hell of a moderator.

Originally Posted by Mike Barham

I don't know about a "fluff and buff." My P32 and P3AT have run perfectly right out of the box, and have the P3ATs of several colleagues.

There are lots of happy KelTec owners, just like there are lots of happy Taurus owners. But if you run the numbers, I think you will discover that both companies have had more issues with quality control over the years than Ruger. The only KelTecs I have ever handled are the ones people needed help with to get them to run properly. Our personal experiences are simply not the same.

I'm not saying Ruger is the devil...just that their pistol design engineers appear incompetent. Drop-safe guns have existed for decades, but Ruger can't seem to get it right - on two guns in a row now.

I don't want to be the spokesman in charge of defending Ruger. The LCP is the only one I currently own and I recognize it for what it is-an over-priced copy of another cheap gun, both of which work pretty well, most of the time.

I just find it amusing for KelTec owners to be celebrating over another company's poor quality control.

Originally Posted by Bisley

No need to get yourself worked up over it.

Who's worked up? Believe me, you haven't been around here long enough to see me worked up. Simply putting it out there how I see it.

Originally Posted by Bisley

I won't say that I have never violated any of those rules, or that I could not ever drop a gun, but the likelihood is very low.

Well, I'm glad you're so self-confident. For your own safety and the safety of innocent people around you, I hope you're right.

Originally Posted by Bisley

But thanks for the lecture, anyway. You are a hell of a moderator.

I'll take that as a complement and not an open, yet veiled criticism of how I mod.

Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo

Wow, that's unheard of. Atleast at any shop I've ever been to.

-Jeff-

Same here for the most part. I have one shop that is pretty close to me that will shoot from the hip and be straight with people. He's one of those I want you back and often kind of guys. I wish there was more like that. Most it's a fanboy thing or whatever gets the bonus that month.

Originally Posted by Bisley

There are lots of happy KelTec owners, just like there are lots of happy Taurus owners. But if you run the numbers, I think you will discover that both companies have had more issues with quality control over the years than Ruger.

That is probably an accurate statement as far as it goes. However, I am unaware of any Taurus or KelTec pistols that will fire when dropped. Yet Ruger has managed to design two in a row. Maybe they need their QC people to stand over the engineers rather than the production workers.

I just find it amusing for KelTec owners to be celebrating over another company's poor quality control.

I'm not celebrating. I just wonder why some Ruger owners buy an unsafe design and then grovel in gratitude because Ruger gives them (gee whiz!) a whole magazine and free freight to fix a massive engineering screw-up that could have potentially led to death. Ruger should never have let these unsafe guns out of the factory, especially after the SR9 experience.

Originally Posted by Mike Barham

I'm not celebrating. I just wonder why some Ruger owners buy an unsafe design and then grovel in gratitude because Ruger gives them (gee whiz!) a whole magazine and free freight to fix a massive engineering screw-up that could have potentially led to death. Ruger should never have let these unsafe guns out of the factory, especially after the SR9 experience.

I can't help but wonder at what height the drop was from. Especially with a DAO operation. Hard to believe a drop from shoulder height would set it off. Before you say anything...I am not volunteering to drop mine with a round in the chamber to find out. That's what QA is for. I'm just sending mine in to get it fixed.

If Ruger really loved us, they'd give out free stuff without selling an unsafe product.

Originally Posted by tekhead1219

Before you say anything...I am not volunteering to drop mine with a round in the chamber to find out. That's what QA is for. I'm just sending mine in to get it fixed.

Chicken.

Here is CZ's drop test procedure:

Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

Link

I'd like to see what Ruger's testing procedure looks like.

Originally Posted by kev74

I'd like to see what Ruger's testing procedure looks like.

They probably drop the gun, with a little parachute attached, into a foam pit or a box of pillows.

Originally Posted by Todd

They probably drop the gun, with a little parachute attached, into a foam pit or a box of pillows.

Originally Posted by tekhead1219

I can't help but wonder at what height the drop was from. Especially with a DAO operation.

I am not for a second pretending to know what would cause something like this to happens, but if I had to guess, I would say that the action of the pistol has little to do with what causes it to fire when dropped. Anybody have any input on this?

-Jeff-

Originally Posted by kev74

Here is CZ's drop test procedure:...

That's all well and good, but, with that scenario the hammer is already cocked and ready to fire. Not the case with the LCP and the DAO configuration. That is why I'm curious about it.

Originally Posted by Todd

They probably drop the gun, with a little parachute attached, into a foam pit or a box of pillows.

Originally Posted by Todd

Chicken.

......

Originally Posted by Mike Barham

I'm not celebrating. I just wonder why some Ruger owners buy an unsafe design and then grovel in gratitude because Ruger gives them (gee whiz!) a whole magazine and free freight to fix a massive engineering screw-up that could have potentially led to death. Ruger should never have let these unsafe guns out of the factory, especially after the SR9 experience.

I guess I would probably also wonder about that, if I were to see groveling Ruger owners, as you apparently have.

Personally, I bought the Ruger because it filled a niche in my self-defense 'rotation.' I had looked at KelTecs and NAA's and Berettas, held them in my hand and didn't like them. The Ruger felt enough better (to me), and looked enough better (to me), and, at least in my mind, had a better reputation for getting it right the first time.

Obviously that did not completely work out, but I don't consider it a deal-breaker, since I own other guns that cannot be safely dropped, and likely will buy others that cannot be safely dropped.

Anyhow, I'm tired of defending Ruger, and that wasn't my intent when I replied to this thread. I have actually criticized the LCP in other threads and gotten jumped on in them, too. You folks are pretty strident about keeping your pecking order intact, and I'm not trying to upset your little club. I could really care less about anything but discussing guns with knowledgable people, and helping newbies, whenever I can.

As the owner of 4 Rugers & 4 KTs, no pleasure here in the recall. I want both companies to "live long & prosper". Have yet to even see a LCP in this part of woods. Wishing all of you a "quick turnaround".

Originally Posted by Bisley

You folks are pretty strident about keeping your pecking order intact, and I'm not trying to upset your little club.

OK everyone, which one of you club members talked about the super-secret pecking order? No one was to discuss the pecking order! Who told?