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Thread: Poor shooting

  1. #21
    BigdogBro1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Run over to your local drug store and try on a few low magnification reading glasses. Try 1.00, 1.25 or 1.50 to get a focal distance to where the gun sights are a bit better in focus but not perfect. This will cause some slight blurriness of the target but help focus the front sight.

    Try on different ones and hold your arms out and use your thumbnail for the sight and another object further away to simulate the target distance.

    It works for me. Sig P229R .40 7yds.


  2. #22
    bwanatom's Avatar
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    Thanks to all of your replys, I have started seeing positive change in my shooting ability. I also get good instruction at the club I belong to. These guys really know their stuff. I can't say enough about "good instruction" from people who know how to do it.
    Things that I have been doing wrong:
    1) Flinching to the "bang and recoil". (low and left)
    2) Not keeping my eye on the front sight (the Merit Optical Device I purchased has helped me immensely)
    3) Poor grip from both right and left hands.
    4) Shooting too fast and too much in a short period of time.
    5) Poor target location/selection.

    Good things I'm doing:
    1) Practicing with snap caps (wow, these really do help)
    2) Better grip with right hand, and better support with the left hand.
    3) Moving the target in to a "fair" distance for a newbie.
    4) Keeping my focus on the "front sight" while firing. (big help)
    5) Merit Optical Device (can't say enough about how I like them)
    6) Great instruction, both here, and at the club I joined.
    7) Practice, practice, practice. (I purchased a .22 pistol, I'm pretty good with that. Not as much bang and recoil?)
    8) Safety, safety, safety.

    thanks all for your valuable advice, I really appreciate it.
    bt

  3. #23
    clanger's Avatar
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    To mirror others....

    Dry-fire before your session, on the live firing line, after you are all set up. Have a plan. Pick the spot you want to hit and drill it dry-firing.
    If your hits start to wander, take a break, then dry-fire, then live. This seems to help when I start getting tired and start to jerk. Break it up some. No long strings if possible.
    Dry-firing is the biggest help of all IMHO.

    My eyes are toast. Those 'readers' you get from Rite-Aid and such are ok for crisp sights/short ranges, but, they blur targets if your visions's like mine. Plus, they are not thick enough and some line's wont let you on w/o certified glasses of a specific thickness.
    The Merrit, Lyman etc. pin-hole devices are a blessing. I also know some that use the 'golf-ball' front bead, black tape with a pin hole on one lens and so on.
    I don't recomnend those 'reader's'.....Indoors, I've had jacketed splatters come back from others and crack/knock loose the lens on one those, I refuse to use non-shooting glasses anymore.

    Invest is real shooting glasses, they're not much more if at all than those cheesey 'readers'. Stick a magnafier on one lens if nec. or a pinhole device for crips sight pictures.

    Practice and consistency (aka- training) help me the most. Repeatable results are what I'm after.

    As I age, I find it more challenging (and more fun as a result) to be consistent and accurate. Esp. with the big bores.

  4. #24
    bwanatom's Avatar
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    thanks clanger, I agree. Good advice.
    bt





    Yes I am DJ, thanks for yer help!

    if you got an extra 150 bucks or so get a personal trainer for an hour. Most of the places that have ccw and other firearms instruction, will give you some one on one for about 150. If not find the guy at the range who only has one big hole in the center of his target and ask him for some help.
    Thanks, I'm taking and NRA Personal Protection / CCW / CPL class starting this monday. This should help too.

  5. #25
    DevilsJohnson is offline Senior Member
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    glad to hear you're doing better

  6. #26
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    I hope I'm not wearing this subject out, but, I seem to shoot my 2 other guns more accurately, and the Beretta M9 not so. The two other guns, Ruger Marklll (6" barrel), and S&W 357 (6" barrel, and only 38sp so far). The Beretta has a 5" barrel. I feel the most imposing factor for the reason why is, "trigger pull". I installed a "D" mainspring in the M9, which helps accuaracy some. I would like to say that the Ruger and Smith have "sweet" trigger pulls in SA, whereas the Beretta exhibits more take up and over-travel, and not so smooth when it's engaged(terminology?). It is strange, when I bought the gun, I really liked the way it felt in my hand. Although I did not shoot it(my bad). I also bought it for it's tradition, proven track record, and I wanted the Marine version of M9 in honor of my late father's service in WWll. I think I would have bought it regardless of whether I shot it accurately under test due to reasons above. I also realize the M9 has a little more recoil to it, which probably influences some flinching. I do quite well at 50 feet with the Ruger and Smith hitting the 8'' target, but often times "miss" the target completely with the M9, say 50% of the time. Snap caps help, and all the other techniques as well. I just think the beretta is a difficult gun for "me" to shoot. Other people I talk to say the same thing. I must have 1500 rds thru it. I have been able to improve shooting it, but wondered if anybody in here has experienced the same with the M9?
    I'll keep try'n, thanks, b

  7. #27
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    It's very common with new shooters and autos (such as the Beretta 92) that have a longer/heavier trigger pull. Your other guns might even have "spoiled" you a bit; I'm sure they both have lighter and much crisper trigger actions, especially the S&W when it is thumb-cocked.

    Keep dry-firing, watch the sights all the way through the firing cycle; remember, they should not move AT ALL when the hammer falls. And to prevent that movement, you HAVE to SQUEEEEEEEEEZE the trigger, not "pull" it. If you know WHEN it's going to go bang, you are NOT squeezing the trigger! Squeezing most of the way through the pull, then jerking/snapping/slapping the last part of the pull is just as bad as jerking from the beginning.

    SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!

  8. #28
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    dj,
    i'll keep going at it. I started my ccw/clp class tonight, so I'm also learning some good things there as well.
    Thank you for your help, bt

  9. #29
    Doorman is offline Junior Member
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    A friend of mine and I were having a little competition with his Walther P22. He claimed it shot low/left. To me, it was dead on. I passed DJ Niner's advice along to him (aiming at the wall and dry firing) and he said he could clearly see the front sight move. We'll be back at the range this weekend to see if he has improved.

  10. #30
    Spartan's Avatar
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    Have you had someone else try shooting the gun and see what their results are?

  11. #31
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    I have been improving, and the snap caps are really a help. I also use a Crimson Trace Laser, and ask people to observe the laser at firing. Yes I do flinch, and it is hard for me to get over. What helps in this situation is to focus on the front sight through the entire discharge. Some guns are easier to shoot than others. At least they are for me. My s&w has a long heavy barrel, and the trigger is just "so right". Not a lot of excess travel in single action. The Ruger is a close 2nd to the smith. Other people have shot my beretta, and some are very successful. It is not the sights that are off, it's the shooter(me). I have also seen people struggle with this gun and tell me it is difficult for them to shoot, and it is not a favorite shooting gun. I feel I have to squeeze the trigger to far, until my finger starts to rotate a little perpendicular to the trigger path, and seems like this action breaks my wrist a little. I would like to try another gun to shoot, maybe a 1911 style? Any suggestions on a "sweet shooter" in the semi-auto style that anybody would recommend ?
    Best to you, bt

  12. #32
    Fredericianer's Avatar
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    Good to hear that you're getting better results now.

    I'm not a very experienced shot myself so I can't give you much help, but if you're after a 'sweet shooting' pistol you may want to take a look at a CZ-75 or one of it's clones. I've only used clones myself (Norinco and Tangfolio), but they're reliable pistols and sit very well in the hand (...well, my hand at least).

    All the best.
    Jeff

  13. #33
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwanatom View Post
    I have been improving, and the snap caps are really a help. I also use a Crimson Trace Laser, and ask people to observe the laser at firing. Yes I do flinch, and it is hard for me to get over. What helps in this situation is to focus on the front sight through the entire discharge. Some guns are easier to shoot than others. At least they are for me. My s&w has a long heavy barrel, and the trigger is just "so right". Not a lot of excess travel in single action. The Ruger is a close 2nd to the smith. Other people have shot my beretta, and some are very successful. It is not the sights that are off, it's the shooter(me). I have also seen people struggle with this gun and tell me it is difficult for them to shoot, and it is not a favorite shooting gun. I feel I have to squeeze the trigger to far, until my finger starts to rotate a little perpendicular to the trigger path, and seems like this action breaks my wrist a little. I would like to try another gun to shoot, maybe a 1911 style? Any suggestions on a "sweet shooter" in the semi-auto style that anybody would recommend ?
    Best to you, bt
    bt, most of the double-action/single-action autoloaders are going to have a lot of what some folks call "excess" trigger movement. It is required by the parts relationship in many of these designs.

    For a swinging-trigger (vs. a sliding-trigger; trying to keep it the same as your other weapons) gun with a short pull-length and an even shorter reset for the second (and subsequent) shots, the Glock is hard to beat. The grip angle takes some getting used to, but the fact that it sits very low in the hand minimizes the muzzle flip when it fires, and helps it return to the target very quickly. I recommend the 9mm Glocks over the other calibers.

  14. #34
    bwanatom's Avatar
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    thanks,
    actually I have been paging through the Glock models and realize that they get very good reviews. I see them as not the most stylish, but one of the most reliable. In fact, I almost bought one a few months ago. Is there any model that you would recommend ? I had thoughts about a .45 cal. How is the kick compared to a 9mm? I shot a .45 a couple times before, I don't recall the recoil being that extensive? Maybe another 9mm would be ok though, it's not like I would complain about having to many guns.
    Appreciate your help, thanks, bt

  15. #35
    Spartan's Avatar
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    I'd suggest going the other way and getting a .22 pistol to practice trigger control...

  16. #36
    DJ Niner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwanatom View Post
    thanks,
    actually I have been paging through the Glock models and realize that they get very good reviews. I see them as not the most stylish, but one of the most reliable. In fact, I almost bought one a few months ago. Is there any model that you would recommend ? I had thoughts about a .45 cal. How is the kick compared to a 9mm? I shot a .45 a couple times before, I don't recall the recoil being that extensive? Maybe another 9mm would be ok though, it's not like I would complain about having to many guns.
    Appreciate your help, thanks, bt
    Although I'm a fan of Glocks, I usually won't recommend them in any caliber but 9mm. The larger frames are simply too big for my hand, and I'm not a proponent of the .40 cartridge at all. I did try a Glock 32C in .357SIG caliber for awhile, but the ammo was so expensive that I found I wasn't shooting it often enough to keep my skill level up where I wanted it. So I got rid of it, and "standardized" on 9mm for the vast majority of my centerfire semi-auto shooting.

    I suggest you find someplace where you can at least hold, and preferably shoot, the Glock 9mm models G17 and G19 one-after-the-other. The G19 is probably a better "all-around" gun; small enough to carry, but still large enough to shoot well. The G17 might be a better choice primarily for range use and occasional unconcealed carry, as the grip is fairly long. If the G17 grip fits you better than the G19, but you'd like a little more forward balance and a longer sight radius to work with, then check out the G34; same frame as the G17, but longer slide, lighter trigger pull, and extended mag release are all standard.

    The only weak point on the Glocks (9mm or otherwise), in my opinion, are the sights. I always get night sights, or at least steel replacement sights; the stock sights are just too easily damaged.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Niner View Post
    Although I'm a fan of Glocks, I usually won't recommend them in any caliber but 9mm. The larger frames are simply too big for my hand, and I'm not a proponent of the .40 cartridge at all. I did try a Glock 32C in .357SIG caliber for awhile, but the ammo was so expensive that I found I wasn't shooting it often enough to keep my skill level up where I wanted it. So I got rid of it, and "standardized" on 9mm for the vast majority of my centerfire semi-auto shooting.

    I suggest you find someplace where you can at least hold, and preferably shoot, the Glock 9mm models G17 and G19 one-after-the-other. The G19 is probably a better "all-around" gun; small enough to carry, but still large enough to shoot well. The G17 might be a better choice primarily for range use and occasional unconcealed carry, as the grip is fairly long. If the G17 grip fits you better than the G19, but you'd like a little more forward balance and a longer sight radius to work with, then check out the G34; same frame as the G17, but longer slide, lighter trigger pull, and extended mag release are all standard.

    The only weak point on the Glocks (9mm or otherwise), in my opinion, are the sights. I always get night sights, or at least steel replacement sights; the stock sights are just too easily damaged.
    Or... you can get the best of both worlds with a short crisp trigger pull and reset, low bore axis, and BETTER sights, and ADJUSTABLE grip sizes, by buying an M&P.... My choice is also the 9mm, but the grip size on the 40's and 45's is much more tolerable than the Glocks, and the grip angle will match up with your other guns better....

    JW

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWard View Post
    Or... you can get the best of both worlds with a short crisp trigger pull and reset, low bore axis, and BETTER sights, and ADJUSTABLE grip sizes, by buying an M&P.... My choice is also the 9mm, but the grip size on the 40's and 45's is much more tolerable than the Glocks, and the grip angle will match up with your other guns better....

    JW
    I admit the grip size on the .45s are much improved, and probably a better choice than a Glock .45. The rest is propaganda.

  19. #39
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    I'd suggest going the other way and getting a .22 pistol to practice trigger control...
    Reply With Quote
    Hey Spartan, I do have a 22 pistol, and while I while there is still room for improvement, and your point is right on, I can shoot the 22 pistol w/o the same effects as the 9mm. The 9mm seems to intimidate me a little with it's recoil. I know that sounds wimpy to some of the younger experienced shooters, but that's the way it is. I aslo shoot my smith 357 very well, it has a great trigger and a great 6" heavy barrel. I believe in what you said, and make the 22 the "main" gun I fire at the range. I also like to fire my 9mm and improve on that. It is a better home protection gun, and a common center fire round. I know you know that, but that's why I am continuing through the struggles with it. I'll see if one of my shooting buddies has a 9mm glock I might try. I am absolutely sure that the gun is dead on accurate, because sometimes I can take the center out of the target. The 22 should be in everyone's bag, as the say IMHO, it is so relaxing and inexpensive to shoot.
    Have a great day to all, bt

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