Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 34 of 34
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    Quote Originally Posted by submoa View Post
    BREAK IN YOUR GUN PROPERLY

    Because Para-Ordnance pistols are hand-assembled to exacting tolerances, there is a requisite break-in period before placing it into service. The company’s advice is to alternate through the two provided magazines until 250 rounds have been shot. Then the gun should be field stripped, cleaned and re-lubricated. The cycle should be repeated until 500rounds have been fired. Always use hardball (FMJ) for break in of any gun.

    Whether a gun can 'take' or truly prefers any particular ammo is meaningless if it hasn't been broken in properly.
    Point taken. I've field stripped, cleaned, and relubed after each range visit as it seems to get pretty dirty, especially the inside of the barrel. But it's still not to its broken-in point, so I need to hit the range again and run some more ball ammo through it.

  2. #22
    submoa is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    784
    Quote Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy View Post
    I need to hit the range again and run some more ball ammo through it.
    Per factory recommendations. You need to hit the range and run 250 rds hardball consecutively through it. Strip, clean & lube. Run another 250rds FMJ again. Strip, clean & lube.

    Do not give the gun a chance to cool down during 250rd break in runs.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    Hence why you strongly recommended a mag loader.

    edit: the manual included with the gun recommends the following for proper break-in:

    1. Run 50 rounds through the gun, alternating magazines.
    2. Repeat the 50-round cycle.
    3. After 100 rounds, field strip, clean, and relubricate the entire gun, including magazines (recommends cleaning magazines with every cleaning).
    4. Repeat the 100-round cycle until 300 rounds have been fired.

    So essentially there needs to be 3-6 range days to fully break in the gun. I've put 150 rounds through it so far on two range days, and the gun has been cleaned twice. So I need to get 150 more rounds through it to finish the break in.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    I called Para Ordnance a few minutes ago and spoke with technical support about jams. From what the guy said, submoa was exactly right. For lack of a better analogy, brand new Para handguns are virtually virgins in that they're built to exact tolerances and dimensions, and basically need to be loosened up using 230gr ball ammo. So I need to finish up the break-in cycle with 230gr hardball, and then retest some premium defense rounds. I mentioned a few FTFs with CCI Blazer Brass, and he said because the BB isn't the highest quality, jams would be expected during the break-in period.

    I like the lower recoil of the 230gr ammo as it's more controllable. Once I'm finished breaking the gun in, I'll test the following:

    - Federal Hydra-shok 230gr
    - Speer Gold Dot 230gr
    - Corbon DPX 230gr +P
    - Hornady XTP (TAP) 230gr +P

    The tech rep advised against +P ammunition not because it would damage the gun, but because the tolerances are based on standard pressure 230gr loads, and a change in chamber pressure could cause cycling malfunctions. He also advised against cartridges under 230gr as the pressures for them will be different as well.

    My thinking is the higher pressure is better since it adds velocity, which a bullet lacks coming out of a 3" barrel. That's on the grounds that it cycles with 100% reliability.

    And of course, I'll go with Mike Barham's opinion of SD rounds...software is key, assuming hardware works. If all of the loads cycle reliably, I should be okay to carry any of them, mostly based on availability.

    While the heavier bullets may not have the velocity of the lighter bullets and may not expand as reliably, they still offer lower recoil characteristics for faster follow-up shots, and even if a .45ACP doesn't expand, it will never shrink. Expansion is preferred, but even hardball ammo from a .45 auto will pack one hell of a punch compared to 9mm. So that being said, I need to finish up the break-in, and test feeding reliability. Ballistics aren't as much of an issue.

    submoa, I appreciate your input on this one. Also, your explanation of recoil relative to powder charges makes complete sense. The heavier bullet, because of its mass, will essentially accelerate slower. Since it accelerates slower, the exanding gases from the powder charge will build up pressure more rapidly behind it than a lighter bullet that accelerates quicker. So yeah, lighter bullets should recoil harder. Thanks!

  5. #25
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    1,251
    Quote Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy View Post
    My thinking is the higher pressure is better since it adds velocity, which a bullet lacks coming out of a 3" barrel.

    Where are you getting your velocity numbers from? Are you Chrono-ing them yourself or is this something you heard?

    The reason that I ask is because you only get about 20-30 fps per inch of additional barrel. I would guess that you are going to get only 30-60fps less out of a 3" barrel than you are out of a 5". You'll still be up in the mid to high 800's, possibly 900's with standard .45 230's. I've never had a noticeable difference in round velocity between my 5" target model and my 3" Raptor.

    If this is just something you heard, I'd recommend Chrono-ing your rounds if possible, you won't notice any appreciable difference out of 2" or 3" difference in barrel length.

    Zhur

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Where are you getting your velocity numbers from? Are you Chrono-ing them yourself or is this something you heard?

    The reason that I ask is because you only get about 20-30 fps per inch of additional barrel. I would guess that you are going to get only 30-60fps less out of a 3" barrel than you are out of a 5". You'll still be up in the mid to high 800's, possibly 900's with standard .45 230's. I've never had a noticeable difference in round velocity between my 5" target model and my 3" Raptor.

    If this is just something you heard, I'd recommend Chrono-ing your rounds if possible, you won't notice any appreciable difference out of 2" or 3" difference in barrel length.

    Zhur
    See this is why I love this forum so much. You learn something new every day. I didn't know that you only got another 20-30fps out of an extra inch of barrel.

  7. #27
    submoa is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    784
    Quote Originally Posted by fivehourfrenzy View Post
    The tech rep advised against +P ammunition not because it would damage the gun, but because the tolerances are based on standard pressure 230gr loads, and a change in chamber pressure could cause cycling malfunctions. He also advised against cartridges under 230gr as the pressures for them will be different as well.

    My thinking is the higher pressure is better since it adds velocity, which a bullet lacks coming out of a 3" barrel. That's on the grounds that it cycles with 100% reliability.
    I would go with the tech rep's recommendation against +P rounds as it is based on design criteria. The absolute last place you want to encounter a cycling malfunction is in a SD situation.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    That's true, however he did say that if +P rounds cycled reliably, they were fine to use. The only difference between the two is that any jams from a standard pressure are considered a manufacturer-based error, whereas the +P wouldn't fall within the constraints of the design.

    He recommended I finish breaking the gun in, then test different loads for cycling reliability. The fact that they were designed with a standard pressure 230gr load implies that there should be no malfunctions with a standard pressure 230gr load, PERIOD. Other loads may or may not work, but if they don't cycle, the gun/manufacturer aren't the ones to blame. If it doesn't cycle with standard pressure 230gr loads after being broken in, then there's something wrong with the gun.

  9. #29
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    1,251
    Well, there could be lots of things that make a pistol not cycle, and it's not always the guns fault. Proper grip for one. The most well designed pistol will fail from time to time with someone limp wristing the gun.

    I got to thinking, and reading, and I think the SB rounds have more to do with development of the bullet itself, not how much faster or slower they come out of the gun. They seem to have a much wider opening for the Hollowpoint and also more mass at the rear, thinner walls near the tip, so that when it impacts, it rolls back easier. Not so much different powders/burn rates/velocity.

    Zhur

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    I got to thinking, and reading, and I think the SB rounds have more to do with development of the bullet itself, not how much faster or slower they come out of the gun. They seem to have a much wider opening for the Hollowpoint and also more mass at the rear, thinner walls near the tip, so that when it impacts, it rolls back easier. Not so much different powders/burn rates/velocity.

    Zhur
    I think that's what makes a SB bullet a SB bullet. I've done about an hour of reading, and from what I've looked at, Remington GS JHPs and Hornady TAP FPD JHPs give the best expansion when compared to Corbon JHPs, Gold Dot JHPs, and Hydra-shok JHPs. I thought the TAP and XTPs are the same, but they're not.

    Obviously, with a 230gr bullet, it's gonna penetrate even at low velocities. With 9mm, it seems the biggest issue isn't getting a bullet to expand, but to penetrate to an adequate depth. With .45ACP, it appears the opposite is the case, as a lot of the ballistics testing I've seen in .45ACP has extreme penetration, sometimes well over the 18" mark.

    As far as picking the best load, I would guess finding one that gives maximum (and reliable) expansion would be key as a non-expanding bullet will overpenetrate. I'd rather have a bullet that penetrates 12" and expands to .730"+ than one that penetrates 20" and fails to expand, or only expands to a .600" diameter, or thereabouts.

  11. #31
    JeffWard's Avatar
    JeffWard is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    St Pete Beach, FL
    Posts
    1,932
    Aren't you supposed to be studying for finals?

    LOL

    JW

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    Something like that...

  13. #33
    ander254 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    48
    fivehour- when you hold the hawg, does it feel like the grip is digging into the bottom of your palm? I held a used warthog at the local shop today and I don't know if I could shoot 50rds without gloves on. It had a space right behind the clip where it looked like you could maybe attach something (or was originally there) to fill in the void. The extended finger rest felt nice for the pinkie but I dont think i could get over the back of the grip. they had a kimber eclipse II next to it and i just about bought it cause it felt awesome in my hand but the 750 tag is a little out of my league.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    1,083
    I think the grip is fairly comfortable. I've shot anywhere between 50-80 rounds in a session without gloves and never had a problem. I always wore gloves when shooting the P99c and XD-9, but I decided to start shooting without gloves, since there's a pretty slim chance I'll ever happen to be wearing them if I need to use it.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

.45 acp out of a 3 inch barrel chronograph
,

nite hawg

,

nite hawg review

,
nitehawg
,

para hawg 7

,

para hawg 7 review

,

para nite hawg

,
para nite hawg review
,
para nitehawg
,
para ordanance nighthawg 45 reviews
,
para ordnance night hawg review
,
reviews of para ordnance nite hawg
Click on a term to search for related topics.