Okay so i want to hear some honest discussion about these 2 guns. Looking to make my first purchase and want it to be right.
Okay so i want to hear some honest discussion about these 2 guns. Looking to make my first purchase and want it to be right.
Right for whom? Have you shot either of them? If not, see whether your local ranges have one for rent one. Don't put too much faith in what other people have to say, unless they're going to pay for it for you. Regardless of which brand (of anything) you inquire about, there will be mindless bashers who parrot what they think the "cool" people say. (Buy Chevy, Ford sucks,etc)
As long as you stay away from the California white metal guns, you'll do fine.
Find a gun that fits your hand, meets your requirements, and is of a caliber that you can shoot accurately. If push comes to shove, buy some snap caps in the caliber you want, and ask your dealer if you may try the trigger(s).
The Glock lovers will say "27". The S&W lovers will say "M&P40c".
Go to other forums and lurk around to see what the people have to say about the guns they like. There are gun specific forums for both S&W and Glock. Go see what the shortcomings are from those owners. I have several guns under consideration for a CCW piece and have been lurking at the Forums for those makes. They all have strong, and weak points.
O.K. Im off the soap box. Get to work.
+ 1 with everything drummin man said
basically try and decide. some like the track record and ease of rapid fire with the glock. the same people may not like the ergonomics of it. some people may like the ergonomics of the M&P but not the trigger pull.
that can be flipped around in any combination of EVERY gun out there. when it comes down to it, both of these guns are straight shooting reliable pistols that are capable of serving anyone well....you just have to decide which one is right for you
I completely understand and agree. What I am looking for is not people that have one and therefore bash the other, but people that have had honest issues, problems, or concerns with either. I agree i need to go and shoot them both and I am making arrangements to do so. But all I can figure from reading other forums etc is that a glock is a glock and wont ever mess up ever, and that the M&P is having some "issues" because it is new but no-one is very specific about what they are and the severity of them. I love the way the M&P feels in my hand and the trigger pull feels more natural to me than the glock,, but i refuse to buy something that has known issues when I can buy something similar that is known to be 100% reliable.
Since I had my glock 27 to blowup in my hand,I would pick the other gun.After it blew at the range,I picked up the pieces with a bar magnet.I really wanted to find out what happened.I was loading my own and using once fired brass.It so happens you cant do that with a glock because the barrel is not fully supported at the rear of the shell,and thats where she will blow.I had a lot of my reloads left,so I bought a steel para p 15 40 s&w.Iam still shooting my reloads.As long as you shoot factory ammo,you are fine with the glock.navy
Old Navy -
No disrespect intended, but I just cant buy the fact that you cant shoot reloads safely in a Glock. I know about the warning in the Glock manual, but the laws of physics still apply. Once-fired ammunition that is reloaded to factory specs is NO DIFFERENTthan a never-fired factory loaded round. Unless there was some defect in the brass, it should not have failed if the round was reloaded correctly. The gun is not at fault. If it were, it would fail with factory ammunition as well. The warning in the manual is there to keep Glock from having to pay for others mistakes.
The GlockFAQ.com site states it like this....
Can I reload for my Glock?
Yes. As with all reloading: be sure to follow published SAAMI guidelines very carefully.
The Glock manual does contain a warning against using reloaded ammunition. However, this is generally viewed as an industry-wide practice done to prevent lawsuits:
"The use of reloaded ammunition will void the Glock warranty, due to the unpredictability of the standards (SAMI/NATO) adhered to, since reloads of poor quality ammunition may not meet (SAMI/NATO) specifications, may exceed limits, and therefore may be unsafe."
I have a feeling that maybe your problem lies more along the lines of another Glock quirk. Lead fouling in the barrel. Again, the GlockFAQ.com site has expanded on this issue.
Can I shoot lead bullets in my Glock?
This has been debated on rec.guns and GlockTalk about 10,000 times. There are basically 2 schools of thought:
School #1: Don't Do It
Glock barrels use special polygonal rifling not found in most handguns. This rifling is one of the main reasons Glocks are extremely accurate guns. However, the same rifling can cause a high degree of leading when not using jacketed bullets. In other words some lead from the bullet sticks to the inside of the barrel when it is fired. Too much leading can quickly lead to high pressures which can cause the barrel and/or gun to break or even explode. Most people who weigh in on this subject fall into this category including Glock Inc.
School #2: Don't Worry About It
If you clean your barrel well and do it every time you shoot there will be no significant leading. Many, many people use lead bullets almost exclusively in their Glocks and do not have any problems whatsoever.
Additional notes from Hoss:
Not all lead is created equally. You can shoot lead in your Glock (probably) but you should use a hard lead from a reputable manufacturer. The homemade lead bullets made from wheel weights and other recycled lead should be avoided! Just becuase one type of lead bullet and load shoot fine in one glock does not mean it will be safe in others. Each barrel is different and must be carefully checked when first using lead.
Additional notes from JT:
You *can* shoot lead in a polygonal barrel, as many Glocksters do. But you need to be aware of some potential dangers in using lead bullets, not to mention voiding your Glock warranty if you use non-factory ammo.
First, if you decide to use lead bullets, use hardcast bullets at medium velocities for best results. This will reduce potential leading of the bore. Theoretically, polygonal rifling allows the bullet to seal the gases better than traditional land and groove rifling, thereby increasing velocities but also increasing potential problems with bore-leading-induced pressure spikes. Lead particles from the bullets have no where to hide in polygonal rifling as in the lands and grooves of conventional rifling and with better bullet-to-bore sealing, serious pressure spikes can develop when the bore is fouled.
However, note that some dismiss the purported velocity increases with polygonal rifling. Mike Orrick (GlockTalk's "BrokenArrows") has pointed out that his chronographed results of identical loads in conventionally-rifled barrels versus same-length polygonal barrels yielded higher velocities in some of the conventionally-rifled barrels.
Secondly, absolutely get all the lead out after at least every 200 rounds to avoid lead buildup, pressure spikes and potential corresponding kBs! With the tighter seal of the bullet, pressures can increase significantly in polygonal barrels. There have even been reports of Ranier-type bullets shedding bits of copper jacket in polygonal barrels, causing the same pressure spikes that are caused by excessive leading. Just be sure to use hard-cast lead bullets or good-quality jacketed bullets and keep the velocities down to earth.
Thirdly, polygonal rifling doesn't get the same grip on the bullet as conventional rifling. This may affect accuracy with some loads, especially hot ones. Even with using copper-jacketed bullets, some LEAs have reportedly banned the use of polygonal barrels in duty guns because of the potential difficulty in forensically identifying the rifling patterns on a bullet shot from a polygonal barrel. IOW, it's sometimes impossible to identify which polygonal barrel a particular bullet was shot from. Who shot whom?
Another recommendation is to moly-coat your lead bullets and/or treat your barrel with one of the spaceage lubricants, such as TW25B spray from Kleen-Bore. This will definitely help the cleaning process and may even increase velocities slightly and help with accuracy.
Last, but not least, most experts recommend getting a conventionally-rifled barrel from replacement barrelmakers such as Jarvis or Bar-Sto if you shoot a lot of lead. These barrels generally offer more case support than stock Glock barrels as a bonus. Use your replacement barrel for practice and the stock barrel for carry.
Sorry for the long post. I do not claim to know the specifics behind Navy's exploding Glock, but a correctly reloaded and defect free round CANNOT be the sole cause of the failure. It is cold truth, and not a call out or a flame to Old Navy. Either the round was incorrectly loaded or defective, the gun was mechanically unsound, or there was an obstruction (possibly excessive leading) in the barrel. Guns just dont blow up because the ammo didnt come from a factory.
I agree with everything you say .It not only blowed once,but 3 times.You have to understand this happened some time ago and I was blaming myself.Each time I bought new parts and tried once more.Each time it blew out at the back of the shell.Each time I checked my reloads really well.I shoot my loads in sig sauer, para 40,cz 75,s&w model 14,even a kel tec 11.None has ever failed like the 27.Iam sure it was my fault at some point.I was loading fmj,copper coated,lead,lead semi wad cutter,hollow point fmj,Maby it was setback ,but it always blew out at the back.You havent lived untill you feel that gun explode in your hand.If I had been hurt,I would have stopped then.I quit after 3 times.Just shoot factory ammo.navy
Glock's don't suffer from catstrophic failures (commonly called a "kaboom"). They will however blow up with unsafe ammo, just as any other pistol will. They will also blow up using factory ammo, if you send a bullet down an obstructed barrel. Factory ammo squib loads will sometimes lodge a bullet in the barrel. Every instance of a Glock kaboom that I've read about resulted from one of these two scenarios.....
okay so since I am not as often of a shooter as some of yall I will pay the extra and not use reloads, lesson learned. Now I still need some help deciding which gun to purchase.
BTW - you *can* use reloads -- you just have to know what you are doing. Factory ammo doesn't guarantee flawless performance. I've had two squib rounds w/factory ammo over the past two months, and that's not counting the .22's.....
I have a G27 that has been 100% reliable with factory ammo. It is my primary carry gun. I considered the M&P Compact when they came out but the early guns (and some later ones) had some problems I didn't want to deal with, such as slides locking back prematurely, magazines dropping out of the guns, rusting and corrosion problems with the finish. You can learn a lot about these guns at www.mp-pistol.com. I have the fullsize .40 M&P and it has been perfect. I got rid of a Glock 22 to buy it and have never regretted it. The M&P has better ergonomics, better grip (3-choices), better sights, better magazines, better trigger, and is American made with a Lifetime Warranty and excellent customer service. The Glock has a proven track record with factory loads, cheap parts, is rugged, and goes bang every time. You need to weight the pros and cons of each gun in making your choice.
I agree with each one of you.The only thing that cant be changed is my para 40 has used every one of my 40 reloads without a hitch.Whatever my 27 didnt like about my reloads dosent bother the para.Iam not a plastic hater,I still own 2 little cheap kel tecs.They shoot fine.So the glock gods didnt smile on me,I will all you fellows shoot them.Long live the 220.navy
Everything needed to own a Glock is easily available: holsters, mags, pouches, tiny Austrians with small hands to clean its little parts for you... I've owned a 27 and a 33 and do not anymore. The subcompact Glocks in these two calibers are miserable to shoot, since your pinkie hangs off the bottom. Sure you can buy Pierce grip extenders: but why should you have to?
Buy the M&P. Check the trigger pull b/w several of them and choose the best. And try to get one w/o the mag disconnect.
what is the mag disconnect?? Those are the kinds of things I am looking for in information. Someone posted that I am looking for someone to make up my mind for me or something. Um not so much,,,, I thought this was the place to get info and feedback from people that have these types of guns, know what they are talking about, and like to share information. I do love the trigger pull of the M&P and it does feel more comfy in my hand. However, since I have never owned a handgun I dont know if I should rank that importance over glocks reputation of "going bang everytime" as someone put it, especially considering certain things I have read that there are "problesm" w/ the M&P even though I cant get anyone to tell me what they are.
The magazine disconnect prevents the gun from being shot if a mag is not inserted. It's a safety feature- particularly if it's a duty gun. If someone tries to take your gun away from you, you just drop the mag, and you can't be shot by your own gun. Most police I know don't like that feature, but some do.
I sold handguns for some time before my new position. I never did, nor would I ever put a Glock in the hands of a beginner- neither would I suggest a 1911 nor an XD. You might consider tracking down a good used or factory reconditioned classic SIG (P226, 228, 229) or a SIG Pro (SP2022). They are great guns for shooters of all levels of experience.
The Glock trigger is just too light.
I am not a new shooter. I have been around guns all my life and shot my dads guns for many years. This is just going to be my first purchase. Making sure I get the "best" gun for my hard earned coveted money.
The benefit of the M&P, which you may know, is that it has a stainless barrel and slide. This is important if you don't or can't keep regular maintenance up. My experience with the M&P has been stellar; others will tell you otherwise.
Smith's engineers/designers figured out how to delay the slide...I'm not sure how they did it, but the .40's recoil feels like a 9's and the 9's a .380.
I'm not saying that the Glock is worse, they are great pistols; but they are losing police business to S&W...One major department here in central AL dropped the Glock 22 after they lost 20% of their guns during training.
Take the pressure off and understand that this hobby can become addictive. What you buy today will probably not be your last purchase. What pleases your hand/budget today will change tommorrow.
Shoot both, decide on one, then start saving to buy the other (or another).
I'd say Glock because of reliabilty, affordability and popularity.
I'm thinking about picking up a G27 myself. Thanks for the reminder.
I am also curious about the G26 vs MPc9mm. Of the two ranges near me, neither has them to rent. Both have them to handle. I don't like how my pinky hangs off the bottom of the Glock, though I wouldn't make my sole decision on that because of the longer mags. I haven't, however, held them back to back. There's a show next month so hopefully I'll be able to.