5.7, WOW! Satan killer.

I was at my local gun store to pick up my 1911 and I got to talking to my salesguy. I was thinking about buying the Desert Eagle and asked him to bring one out of the case. He handed me the DE and said he would be right back. He brought back a composite mag that looked like a toy accessory. then, he showed me the gun it belonged to. It was the 5.7. He explained the power and accuracy of this pistol. How is this gun even legal? Can anyone tell me their experience with this gun? Is it as good as I believe it would be? Screw the DE, 5 think I want one of these. I've always wanted to own a "SATAN KILLER.":smt076

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Originally Posted by SIGCrazie

I was at my local gun store to pick up my 1911 and I got to talking to my salesguy. I was thinking about buying the Desert Eagle and asked him to bring one out of the case. He handed me the DE and said he would be right back. He brought back a composite mag that looked like a toy accessory. then, he showed me the gun it belonged to. It was the 5.7. He explained the power and accuracy of this pistol. How is this gun even legal? Can anyone tell me their experience with this gun? Is it as good as I believe it would be? Screw the DE, 5 think I want one of these. I've always wanted to own a "SATAN KILLER.":smt076

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Sure. It's big, it's clunky, it's clumsy, the ammo is expensive, and it's ballistically about like a .22 Magnum. What's not to like?

After reading the after-action police reports of US policemen using the round (mostly out of a P90, once out of a FiveseveN), I think comparing it to a 22 magnum is greatly underestimating the 5.7 round. However, I do agree that the gun itself is large and uncomfortable. If they could squeeze that into a reliable medium-frame pistol, that'd be cool, but that's a pretty long cartridge. They might be able to stack them diagonally on top of one another (as in the DE .50 AE), and still leave you a decent number of rounds at your disposal. I'll have to sketch it out more (been planning on how to convert a future Glock to 5.7x29, for kicks).

Price is a huge deterrent though. The FiveseveN itself is usually between $800 and $1,000 USD, but the cost of ammo drives it up considerably higher.

Even were I armed with an FN P90, I'd have a different sidearm than a FiveseveN. Too unwieldy.


-B

The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.

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Originally Posted by Benzbuilder

The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.

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Yikes! My 2 cents is that's pretty pricey stuff.

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Originally Posted by rfawcs

Yikes! My 2 cents is that's pretty pricey stuff.

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that's what I spend on hollowpoints

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Originally Posted by Benzbuilder

The price of the ammo isn't that bad. I have found it for 19.95 per box of 50.

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U can get it $2 less a box if U try - I usually buy online.

One or two boxes, I buy in town. But more, I buy online.

It's one of my favorite guns and having 20 round mag is great and you get 3 with the gun. I love shooting it at a 100 yards at a Silhouette. I can't say I have a great group but I do hit the silhouette with all 20 rounds. I love the action on it and it's lightweight. The only thing I don't like is the front site, it's just to big and can make it hard to draw although I have the new blackhawk serp holster for it.
I get the ammo for $20 a box of 50 with a 2800 FPS. Show me a 22mag doing that out of a pistol.
If the Dems get into office they will go after it in a heart beat.

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Originally Posted by spacedoggy

It's one of my favorite guns and having 20 round mag is great and you get 3 with the gun.

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Why do people make a big deal about having 20 rounds? My Glock 17 will hold 20 rounds with the addition of a $10 +2 floorplate, and it is smaller and easier to handle and carry than the giant FiveseveN. But so what - under what defensive circumstances would having 20 rounds be an overwhelming advantage?

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I get the ammo for $20 a box of 50 with a 2800 FPS. Show me a 22mag doing that out of a pistol.

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I've not personally chronographed the 5.7, but everything I have read shows about 2100fps (not 2800 fps) out of a pistol. Maybe it's 2800fps in the PS90, though.

Anyway, out of a pistol, 5.7 is pretty similar to .22 Magnum from a rifle (30gr at 2200fps, or 40gr at 1900 fps). I don't know anyone whose first choice in a defensive weapon would be a .22 Magnum rifle. Nice rabbit gun, though.

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If the Dems get into office they will go after it in a heart beat.

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For those who came in late, the Democrats have already taken office in the House and the Senate.

I lump the FiveseveN in with the DE and the HK Mk. 23 - basically impractical guns that might be fun on the range but are not really suited to anything else.

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Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco

Anyway, out of a pistol, 5.7 is pretty similar to .22 Magnum from a rifle (30gr at 2200fps, or 40gr at 1900 fps). I don't know anyone whose first choice in a defensive weapon would be a .22 Magnum rifle. Nice rabbit gun, though.

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Out of an SMG (PS90, P90), the round's numbers don't really change much. It's no hunting round, and was never designed to be. As a PDW round or close-quarters assault round, the 5.7 is incredible (yes, even civilian stuff).

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I lump the FiveseveN in with the DE and the HK Mk. 23 - basically impractical guns that might be fun on the range but are not really suited to anything else.

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I, for one, will contest that judgment because it conflicts with the popularity the gun is gaining in U.S. police forces. Lots of cops seem to like the reduced recoil (remember, the reason they went to .40 instead of 10mm), and greater accuracy, of the pistol.

Not trying to argue, but personal feelings aside the FiveseveN, and its round, are gaining international popularity, and not without reason.


-B

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Originally Posted by BAC

Out of an SMG (PS90, P90), the round's numbers don't really change much. It's no hunting round, and was never designed to be. As a PDW round or close-quarters assault round, the 5.7 is incredible (yes, even civilian stuff).

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So....it's not good for shooting animals smaller than people, but it's good for shooting people? Please define "incredible" in this context. Is it overwhelmingly better than 9mm or 5.56mm or...what?

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I, for one, will contest that judgment because it conflicts with the popularity the gun is gaining in U.S. police forces. Lots of cops seem to like the reduced recoil (remember, the reason they went to .40 instead of 10mm), and greater accuracy, of the pistol.

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You sure couldn't tell it was a popular gun by the number of holsters sold for it. Without revealing actual sales figures, Galco holsters for Glocks and even 1911s (not a terribly popular cop gun) outsell FiveseveN holsters by at least 50,000%.

Exactly which police departments issue the FiveseveN?

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Not trying to argue, but personal feelings aside the FiveseveN, and its round, are gaining international popularity, and not without reason.

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International popularity? Because the French and Belgians are such authorities on gunfighting?

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Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco

International popularity? Because the French and Belgians are such authorities on gunfighting?

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:anim_lol:

that's a good one...

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Originally Posted by Shipwreck

U can get it $2 less a box if U try - I usually buy online.

One or two boxes, I buy in town. But more, I buy online.

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that price is online @ CMMG. They have gone up on their prices for the SS197. You can still get it for 18.75 a box if you order a case of 2000 rnds.

I've chronographed the 5.7 and get reading between 2650 to 2875. The average is less than my stated 2800 but who cares and why are you arguing everything people post?? I can slap a 33 rd mag into my G17 BIG DEAL. I just like having the 20 rounds of the 5.7 X 28. If that offends you so be it. I don't like the 22 mag round, I can't get a good group with it. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. When I mention the Dem I was thinking if they had the office of the president also.

By the way Thank you for your service and please be safe.

the usg pistol within 15 feet is capable of penatrating body armor even with the civ rounds
i have personaly shot fair groups at 200 yards and with the lack of recoil i would say it is a great gun

Now I remember why I like the 20 rounds. Because of the weight. It's a quater pound lighter than a Glock mag holding 20 rounds.

Does anyone know what the 5.7 round is classified as, rifle or pistol? I think it's a rifle round because of the neck.

Mike, I'll get back with some numbers (and locations) within the next couple days; restaurant's busy lately (meaning I'm tired more... shooting/training is so much easier than waiting...), so I can't promise being lightning quick about the response but it'll come.

Consider this a place mark. :oops:


-B

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Originally Posted by spacedoggy

Now I remember why I like the 20 rounds. Because of the weight. It's a quater pound lighter than a Glock mag holding 20 rounds.

Does anyone know what the 5.7 round is classified as, rifle or pistol? I think it's a rifle round because of the neck.

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Cops treat it as a rifle round, I believe, but that's a good question actually.


-B

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Originally Posted by BAC

Mike, I'll get back with some numbers (and locations) within the next couple days; restaurant's busy lately (meaning I'm tired more... shooting/training is so much easier than waiting...), so I can't promise being lightning quick about the response but it'll come.

Consider this a place mark. :oops:


-B

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I'm not sure 2600-2800fps would cause me to revise my opinion much, and it would be at odds with published velocities I've seen. But it would defeat my ".22 Magnum" argument. I'd have to say ".22 Hornet" or something. :mrgreen: I'm eager to see your numbers.

Spacedoggy, I am sorry if my challenging things offends you. If everyone on the board agreed, I doubt it would be very interesting. There's always the ignore feature, though.

I think I gotta agree with Mike. Reviews I've read on the fiveseven show velocity around the 2000 fps range. And I've seen the comparison to the ballistics from a.22 mag rifle more than once. Seems to me that's a fair comparison. Even FN's published velocities show ~2000 fps for the 195 & 197.

I don't have anything against the fiveseven, I've even entertained thoughts about buying one. I bet it's a fun pistol to shoot. But for personal protection from a pistol, I'd rather have a 9MM, 357 sig, 38 super, 40, 10MM, ... etc.

Here's a link to Brassfetcher's website with some ballistic tests for the fiveseven & PS90. Every round from the fiveseven was sub 2000fps. It also looks like from his tests that the 5.7 suffers from lack of sufficient penetration and poor bullet integrity.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/5.7x28mm.html

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Originally Posted by Mike Barham at Galco

Spacedoggy, I am sorry if my challenging things offends you. If everyone on the board agreed, I doubt it would be very interesting. There's always the ignore feature, though.

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I could care less what you think and I do ignore you. It's hard sometimes when I get PM's from people I don't know complaining about you or what an ass etc etc and I just say ignore him. There are know it alls on all boards and as my sig notes I never will lower myself to your level because you will beat me with experience.

Ignore button now on.

I need to take a better look at my chronograph.

"To cut through body armor the .224-inch-diameter SS190 projectile incorporates a cone-shaped steel penetrator sitting atop an aluminum core surrounded by a steel jacket. Velocity of the 5.7x28mm SS190 ball load from a P90 PDW's 10.2-inch barrel is a respectable 2346 fps. Out of a Five-seveN pistol with 4.8-inch barrel it clocks 2133 fps. Despite the high muzzle velocity recoil is approximately 30 percent less than the 9x19mm. This 5.7x28mm load was specifically designed to defeat a NATO CRISAT target (consisting of a 1.6mm titanium plate with 20 Kevlar folds), and it will--even at 200 meters."

Good review on the firearm found at

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun.../fnusg_021207/

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Originally Posted by spacedoggy

...Good review on the firearm found at

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun.../fnusg_021207/

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That's a good write up. To borrow from Fox News, I think it was "fair and balanced".

Like I said earlier, I bet it's a fun gun to shoot!

Why even bother with the 5.7 when you can have PK2224? Launches a 53gr bullet at 2230 fps out of a converted Beretta 92. I still think that even that round is useless but it outperforms the 5.7 while chambered in a "common" converted pistol. You might find it interesting.

http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm

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Originally Posted by Revolver

Why even bother with the 5.7 when you can have PK2224? Launches a 53gr bullet at 2230 fps out of a converted Beretta 92. I still think that even that round is useless but it outperforms the 5.7 while chambered in a "common" converted pistol. You might find it interesting.

http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm

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Wow! The hole the PK2224 left in that 3/8" steel plate was impressive. Especially next to the .45 and 9mm. :prayer: I think the Five SeveN pistol is pretty neat. I don't own one mainly because of the cost but I might down the road. It would be pretty boring around here if we all like the same guns. I personally enjoy the information folks put out about their new purchases. How 'bout some pictures? :smt033