I have a P3AT for my CCW. I'm not real fond of it, and have been looking at the Sig. I now it is larger, heavier, larger capacity, and a better caliber. I want to know what everyones opinion of the P239 is. Thanks in advance.
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I have a P3AT for my CCW. I'm not real fond of it, and have been looking at the Sig. I now it is larger, heavier, larger capacity, and a better caliber. I want to know what everyones opinion of the P239 is. Thanks in advance.
Which caliber? I liked the P239, personally, although I am a Sig fanatic, too. LOL! But it comes in 9MM, 357SIG, and 40S&W. Which one are you considering?
I'm not sure. 9mm for the cost factor? 40 SW for stopping power, but how manageable is the recoil. My Keltec is harsh, no fun to shoot. If it isn't fun I won't do it.
I enjoyed the 9MM, but I am usually the one at work who has to deal with the customers bringing back the 40s and 357s. So I enjoy shooting them as well. The 40 and the 357 will get you to alter your stance a good deal if you don't shoot normally in a stance that will control it. Both rounds are very snappy. You will most definetly feel it and you will probably need to adjust your stance to gain control. Making sure you aren't leaning backwards at all, even slightly, is the first step. But they are both really good rounds in that gun and a lot of fun to shoot. I find them both to be very accurate and easily controled, but as I said, you need just the right stance to achieve that. It's nothing unnatural, but standing head on with the gun probably won't do it. I'd give them a try.
+1 With Sucklead. The key to any defence gun is training, and practice. That will be your advantage over the BG.
I have a P239 in 40 S&W and it feels like a heavy block in my hand. Its performance has been very good but I really do not like this Sig and Sigs in general. I am honest when I say I prefer Glocks and the Glock 19/23 especially. Regards, Richard :D
P239 advantages, as I see 'em:
* Slim grip.
* Very reliable.
* Good sights.
* Decent SA trigger (though usually with lots of overtravel).
* Good holster availability.
Downsides?
* High bore axis.
* Lousy DA pull, and "crunchenticker" transition to SA pull.
* Long trigger reset.
* Holds fewer BBs than some other guns of similar size.
* Positioning of slide release can impede "The Grip."
It's a good pistol. However, if I were already accustomed to the P3AT's manual of arms and wanted a single-stack compact 9mm/.40, I would look very closely at a Kahr K- or P-series pistol. It's DAO like the P3AT, slimmer than the P239, and has a far better DA trigger.
A Sig is not one of the most recoil friendly guns out there. They are, however, very reliable.
Sig has a very high bore axis as does the H&K USP's (I carry a .40 USP Compact) which means you're going to deal with more recoil than you will with any striker fired gun such as the S&W M&P, S.A. XD, Glock, Styer, Walther etc. etc.
Enlighten me some more on this subject.
"High bore axis" means that the center of the barrel sits far above the web of the hand when the pistol is held in a shooting grip. This high axis gives the pistol more leverage when recoiling, thus increasing the degree of muzzle flip upon discharge. This, in turn, leads to slower shot-to-shot times (also called "split times") and the perception of greater recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by XD-45
Guns that do well in speed shooting all have low bore axes. Examples of common guns with low bore axes would be the 1911, Browning Hi-Power, Glocks, and the CZ75. Examples of guns with higher bore axes would be most SIGs, HK USP/P2000 series, Berettas, and the Springfield XD.
Bore axis is just one criteria for choosing a gun, of course.
Thanks very helpful.
To me, a high bore axis isn't that much of an issue in 9mm as it is in a higher caliber.
The P99 has a somewhat high bore axis - I feel more flip in the gun than in other guns. But I still love the grip and accuracy in the gun, and w/ the 9mm, its not big deal.
S&W makes a 45 cal version of their cloned P99 - I don't think I'd wanna fire that.
And, as for the Beretta, the frame sucks up a lot of the recoil, so I've always felt the the 92FS is one of the softest shooting 9mms around, if not the softest.
It's simple physics (What an oxymoron).
The closer the recoil is to your hand the better "control push" you can create.
A good way to get the idea of how bore axis works is to do what I do with my students. Take a broom handle, ball bat, or whatever kind of stick you may have that is approx. 3 feet long and hold it at one end pointing up and out in front of you at a 45 degree angle. Now, have someone else push on it toward you out at the other end and you'll find it very difficult to resist but have them push on it toward you down close to your hands and you can resist easier.
This is how bore axis works.
It's not so much a matter of felt recoil as much as split times. Caliber for caliber, 9mm included, a gun with a lower bore axis will be faster to shoot than one with a high bore axis. I've shot my Beretta 92 side by side with my Glock 17, and there's really no comparison in shooting speed. The Glock comes back on target MUCH faster. The Glock pushes a little more in the hand compared to the big Beretta, but it still quite a bit easier to shoot fast with accuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipwreck
Bore axis? Are we talking in millimeters? Or can a newcomer spot the difference in different guns?
Hold the gun in a firing grip. Generally, the lower the sights sit to the web of your hand, the less muzzle flip the pistol will have.Quote:
Originally Posted by XD-45
To get an idea of low versus high bore axis, go to your neighborhood gun shop and hold a few low bore axis guns like a Glock 17/22, CZ75, Browning P35, or a 1911 with a "high sweep" grip safety. Then hold a high bore axis gun like a Beretta 92, HK USP, or SIG P226. The difference should be pretty apparent, assuming you know how to take a proper high grip on a pistol.
Again, bore axis is not the sole criteria for choosing a pistol. Many good shooters prefer guns with higher bore axes, presumably trading that for other features they like. I personally prefer guns with low bore axes and short trigger resets, which makes me gravitate toward Glocks and 1911s.
I must admit, I've been around firearms for many years and believe it or not, I never heard the term "bore axis". Once I started reading posts on gun forums that term was popping up. Thanks so much to the members for explaining what in the world that means. So, now I know my Sigs have a high bore axis. Oh well, you gotta have something.
I'm with ya there. I'm learning much a lot.:mrgreen:Quote:
Originally Posted by SigZagger
+1 for what Mike said. My Kahr P9 is big enough to get a grip on, has a great DA trigger and relatively low bore axis. Great CC gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XD-45
FWIW Dept:
I purchased my Sig P239 a decade or so ago when they were first released on the market.. It has ALWAYS been 100% reliable, and VERY accurate at self defense range.
I'm a senior citizen, declining vision, shaky hands, etc. but the Sig P239 w/Crimson Trace Lasergrips will put 'em in the black all day long for me.
I have never had a better pistol.. Period.
Either now, or in the past I have had in 9mm:
Belgian Browning HP/Star BM/S&W 3913/Bersa Thunder 9/UC/ Chinese Tokarev/Taurus PT92/KelTec P11/Walther P1 & Walther P5 plus probably some others I've forgotten along the "three score and ten" highway....
With the exception of the Tokarev and the Taurus each one of those listed have been very good pistols in one respect or another.. But none, overall, have equalled the sweet Sig P239.
I have recently ordered a new Walther P99c/AS in my constant search for a Sig P239 "beater", but haven't shot it yet, and I'll be tremendously surprised if it can top the Sig...
I think the Sig P239 is one of the best compact single stack 9mm pistols ever.
Best Wishes,
J. Pomeroy
Lower "bore axis" does make a difference, but it's only one of the things to consider. Talkin' about low bore axis...........as I look at and handle my new "to me" HK P7M8 it appears to have a very low bore axis. Maybe more than any other gun I've ever noticed.
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/2...sizedp7ae0.jpg