Sig got a new Homeland Security contract for 65,000 guns...
Sig got a new Homeland Security contract for 65,000 guns...
Well, glock gives a significant discount to military and LE. So I would assume that Glock is pretty happy with their sales to both. I would have to vote Glock.
Where I live I see alot of old S&W semi-autos. VA. state police Use SIGs. with the 357sig round.
Virginia State Police - Sig 229
Hanover County- Sig 220
Henrico County- Glock 23
I have always been quite content when LEO's refrained from making me aware of the brand and caliber Pistol/Revolver they were carrying. I will therefor not respond with an inteligent answer to this question. I am merely auditing the course.
When do we get to see the certified answer to this question?
Glock is Borg; resistance is futile. ;)
Glock claims about 65% of the US LE market. Don't know if that means by officer or agency. IIRC, there are about 750,000 cops in the USA. City, county, and state here issue Glocks in 9/40/357. State is switching to S&W M&P357, and city is thinking about switching to M&P9.
About 85,000 armed US federal agents. Largest fed contract was the DHS contract in 2004. Up to 65,000 pistols over 5 yrs w SIG and HK getting options. So far ICE and USCG have bought new SIGs, CBP has bought new HKs. FBI/DEA/USMS issue Glocks. USSS/FAM/FPS/BATF issue SIGs.
Surveys of holster makers show Glock and SIG in the lead for holster sales to US LE. Beretta 92/96 fading fast, M&P moving up fast. Ammo company surveys show sales ranks as follows: 40S&W, 9x19, 45ACP, 357SIG, 38 Special. The 357 Mag and 10mm are barely blips on the screen and fading, the 45 GAP moving up.
Total Berettas bought to date w original and follow on M9 contracts is over 500,000. Last contract was in 2005 for up to 70,000 more over 5 yrs (2005 - 2010). There is other stuff in use. Army's AWG bought Glock 19s, SFOD-D bought Glock 22s, USN SEALS bought SIGs, SOCOM bought HKs, USMC some new 1911s, but even more new M9A1s (M9 w frame rail for light)... We have also bought pistols for our allies in the war on terror. So far about 5,000 Rugers, 5,000 sig pros, 72,000 Sigmas, and 120,000 Glocks.
Internationally Glock does very well, but there have been some big contracts that got away from them. French Gendarmerie bought over 200,000 sig pros, Poland about 100,000 Walther P99s, the German army and several federal police agencies have bought more HKs and SIGs than Glocks. OTOH, some Swiss cops are issued Glocks...
The Mississippi DWFP switched recently from Glock .45 to .40's. Not sure why the change in caliber.
With the exception of special forces units, Military pistols are backup weapons. The primary infantry weapon is a rifle. After passing a requirements list, military pistol contracts are awarded on the basis of price and politics (ie. who's district the factory is in).
The average cop on the street will draw his pistol in anger only a handful of times in his career. He'll qualify and handle his pistol safer than a civilian, but I wouldn't say he's a pro. Price and politics determines which gun he uses. Glock is the most aggressive marketer in the LE arena. They have generous trade in allowances that have reduced purchase price dramatically for many departments.
I would consider pistol 'pros' shooters able to select their weapons based on needs rather than mass government contract: special forces and SWAT units. But their numbers are small and if you are lucky (and they are doing their job), you will rarely see them.
Much is made of HK Mk 23 and P226 as a special forces pistols. But in real life, pistol selection is mission specific. If you are incountry under non-official cover, you'll more than likely use indigenous weapons. Similarly if you are an undercover cop, the last thing you want to handle is local LE std.issue.
The guys I know in SWAT units pretty much stick to 1911s.
LAPD SWAT and Special Investigation Section uses Kimber 1911s
FBI SWAT uses Springfield 1911 (serial #s starting with FBI)
I'd love to know where all those M9s are hiding. We don't have enough for all our guys here. I am sure the Stateside TRADOC posts all have plenty. :rolleyes:Quote:
Total Berettas bought to date w original and follow on M9 contracts is over 500,000. Last contract was in 2005 for up to 70,000 more over 5 yrs (2005 - 2010).
Not disputing the numbers, though.
Hello from Portugal.
Here the LE agencies are switching from walther PP 7,65 and walther p 38to glock 19 with a total number of 50.000 handguns.
The portuguese army still stands with the old walther P 38.
I've read more than one gun review recently that said the same thing about the nice situation pistol consumers are in because the military hinted at opening the door for a new model.. SOCOM trials or something like that, that I won't claim to know really anything about.. But just the hinting of new trials for the industry has apparently caused a big surge in all these new high-quality offerings.. Several Kimbers, the FNP-45 comes to mind, a Sig I saw somewhere... Might have been the P220 Combat (nice!).. etc etc
So I guess regardless the direction a buyer takes, the current situation allows a LOT of quality choices.
Ok.. googled that Sig.. Here's a lengthy vid, but explains the SOCOM program that didn't happen and what happened for consumers as result... Eh, thought I'd try to contribute since I'm no real glock fan.:smt033
Glock. Love it or hate it, Glock dominates the US LE market. Since there are several times as many LE users in the US than military users, Glock beats our Beretta.
Int'l I'm not sure. Though as I travel abroad I sure see a lot of Glocks. Heavy, if not exclusive, use in the UK. Not sure about Canada, perhaps someone could chime in. I assume Germans use the HK since they use MP-5's as their issue SMG for LE, airport, border, etc.
There is a reason why Glock has dominant market share, but that's another thread.......
Despite being a 1911 guy myself, in terms of LE/military market share, it's not even close.
The police here in Denmark have recently upgraded from their old 7.65mm Walther PP's to the H&K P8.
The armed forces are still using the SIG P-210, though I've heard rumours that they may be replaced.
I've seen a couple of references to the use of the HK pistol being used by SOCOM. I'm ex-military but still have several friends in SF and the SOC comunity. This pistol is big, bulky and seldom used except for specific missions. Most guys would rather carry an MP5 or another SMG instead of it. It is true though that they would like to go back to the .45. The only members that don't have an opinion are the ones that aren't really "gun" guys....medic, eod, com guys. Even though trained to be able to take anothers job...the gun guys know each other and we stayed current in the use of what is available.
Being a retired LEO in NYC and now a LEO in Florida my personal observation has been 99% Glocks. When we (NYC) first switched to semi's in the 80's we had a choice of Glock, Smith, or Sig. Most found the Smith's too heavy, many chose the Sig because it was more expensive, but free to us, and finally the rest Glock.
The original Sig's rusted so badly at first that they were removed from service and returned. Our only choice was Glock or Smith. I never remember anyone I knew carrying a Smith except an oldtime Sgt, who like me, was use to carrying a S&W model 10.
Here in Fl, I worked with more than a few Dept's and have never seen anything other than a Glock service weapon.
Granted this does not speak for all LE because I have not witnessed it firsthand, but the guys that guard our vault at work carry G21's, and both of them are retired SC state troopers. They both agree that the majority of SC law enforcement all carry Glock.
Glock the most, Some departments use Sig like the Michigan State Police, ohio state Highway Patrol, texas Rangers, some homeland security personnel, coast guard, SEALs. Beretta is standard issue to the Army and USMC as far as I understand.
Some agencies in the US like the Atlanta PD is switching from Glock to S&W's M&P line, some agencies offer HK USP as an option or as standard issue.
I know that the BSO (Broward Sheriff's office) here in FL uses Glock, but they allow people to use Sig if they are grandfathered in. What does that mean? I really don't have a clue lol, but that's what I was told when I was looking at Sigs in the shop.
You know what though? It doesn't even matter to me. I mean, if everyone in the country was issued a Springfield XD I would not buy one based on that. I bought what I have because of comfort, quality, reliability reports, and personal taste. Obviously it has to shoot good too.
Up here, RCMP use Smiths, OPP use Sig 229, most citys use Glocks
The police around here are a mixed lot. The state (Michigan) issues sig226 9mm, the locals get .45acp glocks, and the county issues a mix of .40 glocks and bererta 92s...I believe they are switching from the beretta to the glock, but this is just from chatting with the officers. The county next door is getting M&Ps but I don't know if they are getting 9mm or .45
I'm with Mike...where the heck are all the M9s?! On my deployment we were only issued with about 60 for a battery of 210 soldiers...they went the Officers, NCOs, and the soldiers whose primary job involved driving. While Mike and others have correctly pointed out, the soldiers weapon is the rifle and the pistol is just a back up, I'd like a backup and I'd like it to work. As I've posted previously the M9 I was issued with was completely un-serviceable and I could not get parts from any Military source. When we qualified prior to that weapons issue we all had to share 3 M9s.
500,000+? That blows my socks off.
Having gotten a little range time with my new (to me) P226 9mm today, I can see the attraction to that particular style of action and frame. Simple decocked non-manual safety firing-pin block safety setup. Just point and shoot DA 1st round without worry fumbling with a safety. Though I'm sure in the heat of it and proficiency with your weapon, I'm sure a competent shooter would be able to go off safety quick enough with the 92/m9.
The Sig da/sa strikes me as possibly easier to train maybe... Load, chamber, decock and holster and it's in carry-mode. In split-second SHTF situation, it's just present, aim, fire (I'm sure there's a more established procedure but something like that) without worry about a safety.. Almost like an old school revolver, except the rounds after round 1 are sweet single action pulls.
I'm almost already thinking about my next 220 or Sig 1911. Got Sig-itis bad now. :rolleyes:
So I was in the shop the other day and here comes a local PD officer for their Monday evening informal competition shooting. I ask him about svc weapons.. Naturally, you guessed it, not only was he a Glock .40 fan, but very very adamant about it. Definitely his weapon of choice for duty carry.
Reason have gave me... Bang every time, period.
Although I chimed in that I was waiting to talk to the smith about the new Sig 226 getting sights, he perked up.. "oooh nice". I agreed naturally. :mrgreen:
But from the conversation, I got the impression for duty carry, it's all about just a few things... Weight, size, dependability and decent short-distance accuracy and no fumbling safety to mess with.. point and click.
Given the typical cop shootout vids I've seen, their SHTF situations are quick-draw close-range where a perp stopped on the side of the road or on the streets makes that last bad mistake and the lead starts slinging..
Their weapons have to be right there, quick to aim, quick to cycle and jam-free, but not weigh a ton for the 99.99999% of the time when they're just carried.
Alot of Law enforcement struck a deal with the Glock 45 gap.
Why? Not because the agencies felt that was the best but because Glock gave them a deal they couldn't turn down,,the GAP was getting no where, So selling them to law for a can't turn down price was better than sitting on them .
The GAP round is more than likely the worst selling out there.
The GAP was a good idea but flopped
Also Military signed another deal for x amount of M9's not long ago,,the article was posted on Beretta forum
I vote CZ 75 B.
From the CZ website: http://www.cz-usa.com/products_handguns.php
The CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world. The CZ 75 is quite possibly the perfect pistol.
I voted glock.
I think the majority of Armed Police officers in the UK carry glocks but I've only seen armed police officers two times in the ten years I have lived in the UK. Two police forces over here that don't use glocks are Surrey(Smith and Wesson) and the ministry of defence police(browning). The UK military uses the browning pistol even though I believe its only issued to officers, MPs, drivers etc..., special forces (SAS, SBS) use Sig Sauers. And all but one(WSP) of the LEO agency's in Western Washington that I've applied to have glocks as standard issue.