I知 only interested in 9mm and I can only buy one.
What is the superior pistol? And why?
I知 only interested in 9mm and I can only buy one.
What is the superior pistol? And why?
No cut & dry answer...
All 3 are very high quality firearms by reliable manufacturers. You really need to handle each one & see what fits your hand better and which trigger you like. Sights are similar but you may prefer one over the other.
Having owned and fired only the Sig & Beretta I can only comment on those 2 models. I'd say it's a dead tie between the two. I love my Sig & Beretta equally although my accuracy is slightly more accurate with my 92G... maybe because I've owned it longer. Both have been flawless in regards to reliability & malfunctions using quality ammo. Both are aesthetically pleasing and are easy to break down in seconds... so again, a tie.
Price is similar as well depending on where their purchased. I know I didn't give a tie breaker answer... but thats like picking your favorite child.
Thanks for the reply.
I intend on using it for competition so accuracy is my primary concern.
I know there is no cut and dry answer, but I would be keen to hear what members have to say.
They are all nice firearms, but I have to go with the Beretta..........I just like the layout, with the decocker safety, side changeable mag release, slightly longer sight plane, ease of maintenance.
All 3 are good but I've never owned a Sig,I'm not big on the way they fit my hand.I've shot many matches with my Beretta and it won me quite a few matches.One thing to be aware of (at least in older 92s) is you should slug the bore if you shoot lead,they tend to be on the larger size.I tried some .356 lrn and they leaded a bit too much for me.One batch was running about .3555 and after 50 rounds my bore literally looked like a shotgun bore.I gave up on lead at that point in that gun but it shoots great with jacketed.You have to keep an eye on the locking block too,it's a cheap dropin part but can crack around the 15,000 round mark unless you shoot light loads.
The HK is a great gun also but mine's a 45.The nice thing about them is the modular trigger,you can convert to SA only for the price of a detent plate that's cheap or go to one of 4 or 5 variations of LEM (DAO).You can get down to high4/5lbs with the light LEM setup.HKs are very accurate and stronger than the Beretta in my opinion,and the recoil system in my 45 makes it feel like a 9.One drawback is lead,you have to really know what you're doing making up lead rounds or you can get a lead buildup and cause high pressure.The poly bores are funky like that.Federal I believe sent their USP45 test gun into HK last year for a tuneup and the armorers said it appeared the only thing ever done to the gun was recoil spring replacement,but had alot of finish wear.The armorers called Federal asking of the round count,their records showed just shy of 300,000 rounds.Pretty good gun.
All three are great handguns. I like Beretta, but I'd be perfectly happy with any one of those.
No matter which one you choose, it will faithfully serve you for a very long time. :smt023
Thanks for the replies
Rex for competition do you think Beretta is better than H&K?
It's not the gun in hand that makes it accurate, but rather, the hand on the gun. :smt002
I honestly can't say,I haven't shot any matches in years and I don't have nuch time on my HK.My Beretta has won me many matches when I did though even shooting with the minor scoring against 45s and comped 38 Supers.It's a damn good gun if it fits you.I think the HK is higher quality and doesn't have the quirk of the 92's locking block breakage,but that's a pretty minor deal to me.HK mags are expensive and the aftermarket mags are pure junk,so that's a negative on the HK side.If you pick the Beretta,I don't think you'll regret it,some people have a difficult time adjusting to HK's trigger.It's a little unforgiving of poor trigger control and finger placement unlike designs like the 1911,but it isn't bad.My USP Tactical's trigger is almost as nice as my 1911s but the match trigger only comes in the Tactical,Elite and Combat Competition so you'd have to spend about $100 to install it in a std model.
Good luck with your choice and matches.
Why those three? What type of competition?
Those are all unpopular brands models from competition point of view outside of LE/Mil competitors that use their duty gun or similair to their duty gun. Even in IDPA where a lot of competitors like to shoot their carry guns those three are not very popular.
All great guns and Makes. My answer here is obvious. If the Beretta Feels good in your hands go with the Beretta. If at all possible I would get on Armslist and Post a WTB ad for a pre 2000 more like late 80's early 90's Italy Made 92FS. You may pay a little more but its worth it. Or you may get lucky like I did and find someone that has it laying around and doesn't shoot it and sells it for market Value of a New one.
HK USP 9mm - very durable and reliable platform, has the ability for cocked and locked and/or DA/SA service, large and easy to use controls; worst DA trigger (Most rugged and cocked and locked option make it very viable)
92FS 9mm - very reliable, can improve trigger at home with different springs and mag's are economical (Macgar), base models sights are fixed, (Very good bang for the buck option)
P226 9mm - also very reliable, should be a very decent DA/SA trigger out of the box, economical mag's (Macgar), my experience amazingly accurate, very good marriage to the 9mm cartridge
Tough call. I'd consider the cocked and locked option thinking of competition and depending on what kind of competition. If your are concerned about speed it could give you an edge over other DA/SA competitors and reach a relative paridy against the Glocks, M&P's, etc. In my hands of the 3 it would be P226 for competition. It will be slightly slower than say a Glock or 1911 but it is a natural pointer and amazing shooter. I have a basic West German 226 and it is uncanny accurate and smooth.
Bottom line if you can you should spend time with all 3 of them and see which one is the most natural and intuitive in your hands. Changing magazines, malf clearing drills, racking the slide, using the controls, pointability, balance, etc. Do all 3 options let you comfortably put your hands and thumbs where you want? High thumbs forward may be an issue. As a lefty not an issue for me on a right handed set up because frame is clean on the right side of the gun. All 3 would serve you well and can be mastered but starting out with the model most natural in your hands will speed that process considerably.
Best at this level is subjective and largely dependant on the criteria.
HK P30S - The P30 is the newest version.
Just got one - shoots great - I'm going to try it in IDPA, but I have to admit, my CZ is faster.
Thanks for the replies.
Type of competition is IPSC.
I’m in the military and asked a mate who’s also in the military and competes if he had any recommendations for a reliable accurate pistol. Those were the three he mentioned.
Regarding the guns, given that your name is Glock12, I'm surprised you're not looking at 34 etc. They will be easier to work on at the user level have a lower bore axis, have one trigger pull to learn, a ton of accessories etc.
The guns you listed are all fine duty pistols, but they all have their quirks.
The Beretta Beretta has thee least amount of competitive aftermaket support and in stock form would not be my first choice, the safety/decocker is easily moved while stacking the slide during malfunction clearing, but I would probably choose the Beretta over a Sig as the Sig's slide stop location can be problematic. If your going to look at Sigs, I would suggest an X5 or possibly the new 226 SAO, but as its new there won't be enough out for a while to make it Production leagal for a while.
****Hit submit early, post still in progress****
The HK as noted has the most expensive magazines out there, but there are some USP competition models out there worth taking a look at and the P30L, I would highly recommend the LEM in the P30 or USP if other than a "match gun" be purchased.
The mag release on the HKs can either be a hindrence or a blessing there is no in the middle on that you will either love it or hate it. I like it.
Previously I mentioned bore axis, the Sig and the HK have a higher bore axis than a lot of other guns, not sure about the Beretta. Bore axis is the height of the boreline above the shooters hand. A higher bore axis typically translates into a little more muzzle climb which = more time to get back on target = slower shooting....however its a learning issue you can get past and negate it but it is still introducing a learning curve.
On the subject of introducing learning curves, your traditional double action autos like the Beretta and the Sig well as USP (variant depending) have two different trigger pulls to master. Like the bore axis this can be learned and mastered, just look up Ernest Langdon but again it's introducing a learning curve.
I've had a Beretta 92FS and a Sig 220SAO and currently have 3 newer HKs, a HK45, a P30S and a P30LS so I've got some experience with all three brands but not much with a 226 or USP.
Are you a right or left handed?
If you're left handed the HK is the most lefty friendly followed by the Beretta. The Sig in standard DA/SA format is not.
In terms of accuracy, in stock format the Hks have the better barrels, another poster said something along the lines of its all in the shooter, this is true but there are some things that effect the shooters' ability to shoot accurately...
More on that later
I’m from Down Under
Glocks are fantastic, but when shooting and moving I feel the safety system may not be best for me whilst starting out, when I’m more confident that might change.
I’m hearing so many good things about the H&K P30, but due to absurd Australian gun laws it is illegal here.
I read that the bore axis of the Beretta 92FS is the lowest of the three.
Does having a higher does bore axis affect accuracy?
In terms of using the safety while moving and shooting, I would not opt for the Beretta in you plan on engaging the manual safety.
If you do plan on engaging the safety, Id be looking at the options with a frame mounted safety like the USP, however the models of USP I would choose for competition are not legal in the Production Division so that would limit you to Limited and Limited 10 if you were to use a USP Combat Competition or Expert.
Most Sigs don't have safeties to engage while on the move, the most cooking one in 9mm that does is the X5 competition and that like the HKs I mentioned are not Production legal. With a regular Sig, the long DA pull is considered the safety and you don't want to be decocking the gun the gun and giving yourslef the heavier trigger pull...or maybe you do, but if you're not used to a DA trigger, as in real DA trigger; not a Glock trigger I would opt against it. Maybe a 226 DAK?
I love my HK usp 9mm.
I’ll look into the USP Combat Competition.
Today I practiced shooting and moving with a Glock on my mate’s property and think I am starting to get a better feel for that safety system.
I was just wondering would a Glock 17 Gen 4 be more accurate than the other three?
What will make the bigger difference is how well you manipulate the gun.
There are pro shooters winning matches with Glocks, Berettas, HKs, Sigs etc. so they are all accurate enough to do the job.
I have several pistols that are on the top tier of 1911s for mechanical accuracy, but I find myself putting up better scores with the HKs, which are also on the higher end of mechanical accuracy, but for whatever reason I just manipulate the gun better.
I agree with VA,you will dectate which of these guns will be more accurate in your hands.From a machine rest with ammo the gun likes,I wouldn't expect a large difference in group sizes from any of the mentioned guns,with the HK possibly pulling off the smallest group.
When I was competing,once the safety went off it stayed there other than using a car for part of a stage.One morning the dew caused me to slip and slide right through a shoot box,I backpeddled,spread my legs as far apart as I could as I laid back and did the stage.Never touched the safety and wasn't penalized or DQ'd.Just train that trigger finger to stay off the trigger and you'll be fine.