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Steve... dangerous or deadly are terms used to define the proximity of a human ( or item of value to a human) to a situation that puts said human or item at risk..... it is NOT inherant, but relative to the probability of said risk happening.
dioxin is toxic as in inherent property, a constant.... but its not deadly or dangerous even unless we humans contact it.
A licorice rope is dangerous... in the hands of a three-year-old. I now have a licorice welt!
but in the package, it is not dangerous, just inherently nasty!Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly
So is the object (stick, rock, knife, gun, ect. ect.) dangerous? Or is it the individual using the object that is dangerous? Seem to me, even from what I am reading here, that these "weapons" are just objects, and while all have the potential to dangerous it takes a human, through lack of foresight and use of a few basic mental guidelines or with intent to harm to actually cause any of these things to do anything at all.
Little kid picks up handgun and shoots dad....was it the unsafe kid or the unsafe gun?...Quote:
Originally Posted by sgms
Answer, the gun was unsafe for the kid to hold.
If the kid would have unloaded the firearm the shooting wouldn't have happened. If the kid had the safety ON or a gun with a safety and it was ON, the shooting would have been less likely. Oh, that's right...its the kids fault! Look at all the other adults with negligent discharges....
The point here is that loaded firearms are dangerous...AND it takes a properly trained responsible adult to know how to handle them safely. Second point is that If ALL THINGS ARE EVEN....different guns are safer than others.
Firearm Negligence - YouTube
CC
seriously??? the GUN did it? the GUN? unreal.....Quote:
Originally Posted by cclaxton
Here is what I wrote: "the gun was unsafe for the kid to hold."Quote:
Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell
Firearms are inherently dangerous and the kid proved it.
CC
i just unloaded every gun in my safe before they killed someone..... thank god i got to them in time, i think they were hatching a plot.
in the morning i will dull all of my kitchen knives, take the chain off the chainsaw and run my louisville slugger thru the wood chipper. tomorrow my neighborhood will be just that much safer.
thought the kid was dangerous and proved it....Quote:
Originally Posted by cclaxton
What I got from these last few posts is that PARENTS are unsafe.
We have a weekly steel shoot open to the public and you are not allowed to have your finger on the trigger unless you are actually shooting. It must be outside the trigger guard when moving or reloading. You would not believe how many highly trained people including LEOs are warned every week about this one infraction. It surprises me that more people are not hurt with firearms. I'm going to the Western States Singlestack Championship this weekend and they won't warn you. You just get DQ'd and cannot shoot anymore on the course. Wish me luck. When my arthritis acts up (like when I'm taking a pounding from 200 power 45's in my 1911) my fingers tend to curl in so it will be a challenge as I run from target to target.Quote:
Originally Posted by cclaxton
It's interesting how rules change.
Long ago, when I was involved in IPSC, nobody cared where your trigger finger was, while you were moving or otherwise. But if you had a negligent discharge, you were instantly disqualified.
Yeah. Truth!Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly
Instead of licensing guns, people should have to pass a test, and be licensed, to be allowed to make children.
Further, divorce should be easy, but getting married should be difficult.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1
In the USPSA rulebook under sections 10.5.8 and 10.5.9, 10.5.10 and 8.5.1 . There's lots of rules now for safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1
The brain is your ultimate safety........or "keep your booger picker off the boom switch till you're ready to shoot"
Had a very dangerous thing happen at the shoot yesterday. My 1911 went full auto during the competition. Good thing I knew enough just to bear down and hang on (191.9 power factor!). Got DQ'd until the onsite gunsmith fixed it and gave me a note for the Match Director. They'll let me finish the shoot today. This is a Springfield Armory Loaded 1911 and has is completely stock. Never had any trigger work done on it and has had few rounds through it. The trigger sure is sweet now. Got a trigger job for free. Need to wash my shorts though. You never know when a mechanical device will fail so some training is necessary. BTW the "Supersquad" (all us old farts) got a last minute entry added. J.J. Racazza is shooting with us. Great young man and lots of fun to watch on the courses. I'll get some video today.
:smt180Quote:
Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell
This has been entertaining.I think guns are like any inanimate object,they can't be dangerous for the most part.You need 2 things to make a gun dangerous,a brain and muscles-the kid in the scenario proves that.If you use a gun,you learn safety,how the gun operates,ballistics at least to the point things get broke when shot,and as much on top of that you can.Then you train your muscles into grip,finger press,etc.The most important muscle is the trigger finger,you must teach it to instinctively know what to do while you are concentrating on more important matters like a threat,backstop,an ambush,yada yada.An educated brain and muscles now lessens the danger to willful use of the object.Very few discharges happen without physically pulling the trigger.
Here's controversy.I've had the safety snick off a few 1911s carrying before,condition 0.Most people freak,I saw that I needed to retension it,no biggie.How is it unsafe if it can sit there forever and not go off?The triggerguard is covered,the trigger can't move because of the grip safety,and if the sear just happened to snap the FP safety prevents a discharge.
Conversely,I'd never carry a Glock.Where's the safety?In the friggin trigger.Serpas have proven the 'safe action' they have on reholsters with no human trigger contact.That can't happen on my 1911 because my trigger is locked from debris moving it.Debris in a Serpa can also lock your gun in it if anyone is considering one,severe use isn't where they're good.
Just my opinion and things to ponder out of mainstream thinking.
We can certainly twist this subject around a few dozen ways, but the basic question remains and it's good to have so many folks thinking about it. Sure a gun can't cause any harm on the scap heap, but that's not a very useful consideration since it is not an option any one of us is going to take up. Safety mechanisms have their place and I'm sure every one of them has prevented some bad stuff. They won't prevent bad things from happening, tho, if the user doesn't have the mindset of respect for a weapon and the mental discipline for proper handling ALL THE TIME.
I have to chuckle a little reading through the semantics of these debates. They make me think that maybe we (gun owners) are a little defensive about calling a spade a spade. Of course, you and I know that the firearm will only do what it's "told", has no ill intent of its own, and is only "dangerous" to some degree when it's in someone's hand.
All of the Captain Obvious pronouncements aside, a firearm is a tool that was designed to be "dangerous"; to kill actually. Ignoring the 500# gorilla in the room seems silly to me. All other things equal, an average man with a handgun in his hand is more "dangerous" (intentionally or otherwise) than a man with a stick or a pen. It is that way by design, lest this be called the pointy stick forum. :smt033
Perhaps the question would be more precisely worded "Which safety mechanism is most effective in preventing AD/ND?" Short of any belief in magic, needling one another over "dangerous person with a handgun" or "dangerous handgun" seems pedantic. A firearm is a tool that is designed to be dangerous.
OK, I have to go back through today's posts to see if anyone used "clip" inappropriately now, and chew them a new one... :anim_lol:
Treat every firearm as loaded , one in the chamber and ready to kill.Mind set is very , very , important but , in my crazy life ,
there are so many distractions I'm never sure of anything . when I set my pistol down and get some stupid question from my wife lets say , am I sure about anything ? No. I've seen some of the best make stupid mistakes because of distractions
so always assume it is ready to kill .
Mindset is everything. Been teaching my daughters to shoot. We have safety sessions before we shoot at the range. Procedure procedure procedure. We recently went from revolver to automatic and it was enlightening to see the misteps in procedure. Dropping the mag was the most skipped step in "safeing" the weapon. Safety systems should be standardized IMO.
Safety is pretty well standardized....
1. Keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction
2. Keep your finger off the trigger, until you're ready to shoot
3. Keep firearms unloaded unless they're ready to use
Store your firearms so as to prevent unauthorized access....
:smt1099
Those are general safety measures.
The mechanical aspects are what lead to inadvertent discharges.
If one is unfamiliar with a weapon or the safety is in a unusual place,
people tend to be unsure of the condition of the weapon.
Eventually the weapon has to be loaded and fired.
That's when accidents occur. Standardization could at least reduce that chance.
No sir, mechanical aspects do NOT lead to inadvertent discharges. Firearms do NOT fire unless interacted with by a human. When any firearm is interacted with by a human, the observance of those three rules will NOT allow a discharge resulting in injury. You can "what if" this to death, but if you implement rule #1, and ignore rules #2, and #3, nobody gets hurt. If you implement #2, and ignore #3, and #1, the gun won't fire. If you implement #3, and ignore #1, and #2, the gun won't fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by velo99
Ignorance of the law is no excuse, neither is ignorance of the function of any given weapon possessed by any individual.
I've taught those safety rules for many, many years. They work much better than any mechanical device.