n00b fighting with Glock 34 recoil at the range

Hi all

Trying to decide on my first handgun. Been shooting at the range twice, so I know nothing at all, except that I am a crappy shot and I have fun shooting :mrgreen:

I measured the diameter of my groups on both my trips to the range, and while it's only a total of 400 rounds (50 rds per gun per trip to the range), it worked out like this: (everything shot at 15 yds because 25 yards looks like a mile away)

Avg group diameters:
Glock 34 -- 3.8"
Beretta 92FS -- 2.1"
Springfield XD 9 5" -- 2.05"
Glock 17 -- 3.95"

I really like the way the Glock sits low in my hand, but the results seem to be telling me that I don't have what it takes to use a Glock accurately. A friend told me it's hard to control the recoil on Glocks because they're so light, and it penalizes the incompetent.

For you masters of Glock, am I hopelessly Glock-challenged, or is this actually a normal / common problem for beginners?

Thanks for any education....

Looks like you are doing good for a beginner. The Glock trigger is more like a staplegun than a normal trigger. You are actually completing the cocking of the pistol as you squeeze the trigger and it takes some getting used to. Getting a proper grip in it is very important. For $9.00 you can get a ZEV spring kit for it and improve it immensely. Here's Todd Jarrett showing how to properly grip a pistol. Then one of me at a USPSA shoot with your Glock.

Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting. - YouTube

Stage 3 USPSA 11 26 2011 - YouTube

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Originally Posted by speedrrracer

For you masters of Glock, am I hopelessly Glock-challenged, or is this actually a normal / common problem for beginners?

Thanks for any education....

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Just acouple things you have to know when you pick up your gun (especially a glock)

1) Grip angle - Glocks are angled, so if you try to shoot like CSI or 24 style your going to be seriously inaccurate with the pistol. Line up the sights and keep your eye on the target. Aim your pistol and notice where your gun is pointed.

2) Trigger discipline and control - squeeze the trigger don't pull it. reckless trigger control makes you inaccurate as you move your weapon as it discharges. also keep your finger off the trigger completely til your ready to fire

If you can't adjust then get the 92fs or the XD, but IMO the glocks are extremely accurate and the recoil is nothing especially in 9mm and in .45 as well. I traded my beretta and HK in for more glocks, i think you just need to be more conscious of your shooting technique

It's a normal problem for new shooters. Take a class. Ask for references from the instructor. Once you become proficient with the fundamentals of stance, grip, sight alignment, and trigger squeeze, firearm selection boils down to how comfortable a given gun is... You'll be able to shoot virtually any caliber/platform.

Focus on the front sight, obtain a proper sight picture, then apply that picture to your target.

Thanks for the tips. I took usmcj's advice and made an appt with an instructor. The instructor also said new shooters often exhibit this problem, so hopefully it will go away.

If this is too big / complicated a question please ignore, but can someone explain what "obtain a proper sight picture, then apply that picture to your target." means?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedrrracer

Thanks for the tips. I took usmcj's advice and made an appt with an instructor. The instructor also said new shooters often exhibit this problem, so hopefully it will go away.

If this is too big / complicated a question please ignore, but can someone explain what "obtain a proper sight picture, then apply that picture to your target." means?

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You're training will be of substantial benefit. Good call.

Proper sight picture has the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight, and the front sight centered between the rear sight wings... like this....

http://personal.swayzee.com/jayb/sightpicture.jpg

...to apply that sight picture to your target, move your shoulders, arms, hands and the gun as a unit, until the sight picture is lined up with your chosen target.... don't try to just crank the gun around. Rest assured, you'll cover this in class.

When you are aiming a gun there are two sets of muscles involved; the voluntary and the involuntary. So you mentally tell the gun to "hold steady" and your voluntary muscles do what they can to accommodate your wishes. But they cannot accomplish this on their own. Your involuntary muscles need to "learn" how to cooperate with the voluntary ones. When they do the improvement will be rather substantial.

You can improve this quicker by doing safe dry fires and safe practice aims between range sessions.

The group sizes you are calling out do not sound like recoil flinch to me. So I would pick any of the weapons you've been firing based on which you like the best.

Two things you can count on: First, with practice you will improve; and second this won't be the last gun you own.

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Originally Posted by Packard

You can improve this quicker by doing safe dry fires and safe practice aims between range sessions.

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This is one thing I like about the Glock -- glockstore.com has this trigger re-set / laser indicator combo kit, so you can dry fire infinitely (without have to rack the slide) and see the results via the laser. Genius idea.
I emailed them, and they're just finishing up an AR-15 version, and then they might look at the XD, so perhaps there will soon be another type of pistol with this option.


Thanks to usmcj for the great explanation on sight picture. So is it fair to say when shopping for aftermarket sights (getting way ahead of myself) that the heights of the fronts / rears must continue to match?

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Originally Posted by speedrrracer

...So is it fair to say when shopping for aftermarket sights (getting way ahead of myself) that the heights of the fronts / rears must continue to match?

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The horizontal point of aim will not change when you change ammo, but sometimes the vertical will. So it is useful to practice using ammo of the same weight as your carry ammo. This will frequently minimize the change of point of aim.

Ultimately you will need to ajust the sights according to how you shoot and to suit the ammo you will use for carry (or competition).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedrrracer

So is it fair to say when shopping for aftermarket sights (getting way ahead of myself) that the heights of the fronts / rears must continue to match?

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In order to maintain the sight alignment of the out-of-the-box firearm, aftermarket sights should be the same height as the originals. Some guns are set-up for a "6 o'clock hold", and others are set up for center hold... (as illustrated in the pic in my earlier post) The weights of different bullets may cause a change in point of impact, but the velocity of different bullets will definitely alter the point of impact. I prefer center hold, but it's just that.... personal preference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedrrracer

Hi all

Trying to decide on my first handgun. Been shooting at the range twice, so I know nothing at all, except that I am a crappy shot and I have fun shooting :mrgreen:

I measured the diameter of my groups on both my trips to the range, and while it's only a total of 400 rounds (50 rds per gun per trip to the range), it worked out like this: (everything shot at 15 yds because 25 yards looks like a mile away)

Avg group diameters:
Glock 34 -- 3.8"
Beretta 92FS -- 2.1"
Springfield XD 9 5" -- 2.05"
Glock 17 -- 3.95"

I really like the way the Glock sits low in my hand, but the results seem to be telling me that I don't have what it takes to use a Glock accurately. A friend told me it's hard to control the recoil on Glocks because they're so light, and it penalizes the incompetent.

For you masters of Glock, am I hopelessly Glock-challenged, or is this actually a normal / common problem for beginners?

Thanks for any education....

---

IMHO, recoil ain't the problem. Trigger control is the more likely suspect.
This is why I always hate to recommend striker guns to beginners. Learning trigger control is hard enough with a good trigger. Doing it on a striker gun trigger makes everything harder.
How is it you shot the XD so much better? Both the XD & the Glock present similar challenges to the guy pulling the trigger. Just my opinion, but learning to shoot this style of trigger requires lots of practice to do well.

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Originally Posted by Overkill0084

How is it you shot the XD so much better?

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Don't ask me -- I've only fired a pistol twice in my life. In my ignorance, I guess that's why I assumed it must be a recoil issue -- the XD is a fair bit heavier, so I thought maybe it was absorbing the recoil better.

Looking at my thinking, it does seem pretty stupid. You guys are prolly right and it's not recoil. Maybe my poor trigger control was adversely affecting the lighter weapon more?

"Maybe my poor trigger control was adversely affecting the lighter weapon more? "

That is certainly possible, but one thing I didn't see brought up was how weapons point. Some guns feel "natural" to people. Some just seem to be more intuitive as far as pointing and shooting. Its all about preference, but I love how the 1911 and the CZ75b point. Glocks, for me, just provide a challenge both with a less natural 'pointing' feel coupled with the striker trigger system. With the 1911 the cz or my revolvers I can obtain MUCH better groups and accuracy than with my Glocks. Thats why I try to practice every chance I get, because I want to become as proficient with them as I am with my heavier and more natural feeling pistols. I carry a Glock, but I wish I was as confident in my aim as with my CZ. I have seen people with Glocks do things that I will never achieve though.

It's all about practice and repetition, but there is something to be said for the "natural" feel of a pistol. When you pick it up and you just feel and see where its pointing - makes it easier to get good sight alignment and sight picture. It is mostly psychological I'm betting and it isn't something that can't be overcome, but it may be another variable in the differences in groupings for a new shooter on different pistols.

http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files...ightHanded.pdf