The other side of the coin.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

I wasn't being sarcastic. It was an honest question about your experience.

But you don't need to apologize.

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No, I didn't want to come across as being a douchebag or anything. Like I said it is just hard to tell from reading how a post was meant to be taken. I apologize though.

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Originally Posted by kg333

I prefer concealed carry, but I would like to point out a potential flaw in your scenario:

From a sheer tactical perspective (meaning issues of alarming neighbors/police aside), open carry relies on the assumption that the visible presence of a weapon acts as a deterrent, i.e. the bad guy sees a guy with a gun inside, goes "ohhh s***" and goes elsewhere. Concealed carry relies instead on maintaining the element of surprise as long as possible, at the cost of the sight of a gun potentially acting as a deterrent.

IMO, it's a psychological guess at what you think your average bad guy is going to do, and there's no right answer tactically. Is he a cowardly mugger looking for easy cash? Is he a druggie willing to do anything for his next high? Is he an experienced shoplifter who knows a fight would be too high profile? Is he a wanna be gangbanger with something to prove? You'll never know for sure.

I prefer to carry concealed. My reasons for doing so stem almost entirely from living in one of the more liberal cities in my state: I do not wish to start a fuss, nor have a conversation with the cops on any given day, so I choose to carry concealed and leave the general public in the dark to the fact that I am armed.

KG

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I am not saying open carry all the time. Like I said before for me it is mainly if I move and my gun becomes unconcealed I don't want any trouble getting started. If you are in a place that allows open carry and people know that it is legal I don't think you will get much flack from the police. Your neighbors may be different. Lord knows alot of them like to whine about stupid stuff. We had a neighbor call the police and DSS saying our other neighbor's kid was playing with matches or a lighter unsupervised. Come to find out she had a battery operated candle.

But, it is just like I said earlier. It all depends on the scenario. I mean could the bad guy be jumpy that any movement and he shoots. Which means you reach for your gun and you get shot. Or could he be one of those guys that you could make the gun shape with your index and thumb hide it under your shirt and say I will shoot and he run off (not likely).

I would say that 99% any of us run into will be someone who is looking for an easy target that can get what they want and go, and that no one will get hurt. I would also put money on the fact that the guy will be very nervous and even a knife alone will deter him. That seems to be 100% of the stories I hear about and read. Unless it is someone that kills the person and the person that died is unarmed.

Personally, unless I'm at a range or on a firing line, I usually don't open carry. (There have been rare exceptions like when I've removed a jacket while sitting inside a stuffy restaurant, or while I'm out of the vehicle pumping gas at a late night station.)

I'm reminded of Lance Thomas who is, perhaps, the most: celebrated, skillful, and just plain lucky CQB pistol gunfighter in modern times! One of jeweler/gunfighter Thomas' self-defense techniques against sudden attack was to, 'salt' numerous pistols away behind the counter of his jewelry store. During his gunfighting years, Thomas might not have appeared to be armed; but he continued to survive multiple attempts on his life by never being too far away from a hidden, but readily available, pistol.

LiveLeak.com - Lance Thomas track record; 4 robberies 5 kills

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Originally Posted by Brevard13

...I am not saying that concealed carry doesn't work or isn't effective. I am saying that for the average person who goes to the range shoots 100-200 rounds of ammo never drawing from a holster will not be able to successfully complete the steps to draw from concealed the majority of the time...

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That is, of course, correct.

I (personally) am neither concerned about, nor care about, a fool who carries a concealed weapon but doesn't practice being effective with it.
My only concern about such a person is whether or not his imbecility and incompetence will directly affect me or my family. To guard against that, I rely upon my normal watchful awareness of my surroundings, and upon my experience.

I tend to avoid confrontations, and I also do my best to avoid people who appear to be uncomfortable carrying a concealed weapon.
Given sufficient experience, both tasks are pretty easily accomplished.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

That is, of course, correct.

I (personally) am neither concerned about, nor care about, a fool who carries a concealed weapon but doesn't practice being effective with it.
My only concern about such a person is whether or not his imbecility and incompetence will directly affect me or my family. To guard against that, I rely upon my normal watchful awareness of my surroundings, and upon my experience.

I tend to avoid confrontations, and I also do my best to avoid people who appear to be uncomfortable carrying a concealed weapon.
Given sufficient experience, both tasks are pretty easily accomplished.

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Bingo Steve... bingo.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

That is, of course, correct.

I (personally) am neither concerned about, nor care about, a fool who carries a concealed weapon but doesn't practice being effective with it.
My only concern about such a person is whether or not his imbecility and incompetence will directly affect me or my family. To guard against that, I rely upon my normal watchful awareness of my surroundings, and upon my experience.

I tend to avoid confrontations, and I also do my best to avoid people who appear to be uncomfortable carrying a concealed weapon.
Given sufficient experience, both tasks are pretty easily accomplished.

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I agree whole heartedly. Especially because of the fact I don't want to have to deal with all the legal crap that goes on after a self defense shooting. So I will avoid anything that makes me feel uncomfortable. There have been times my wife and I have pulled into a resturant and I get a bad feeling in my stomach and we leave. Nothing ever happens (except maybe not eating bad food) but I feel on of these days that gut feeling will come back to save mine or her life.

At the same time I was just addressing how you carry. I know for me open carry or concealed I am going to be alot more tolerable and calm knowing I have a gun on my person as to when I am not armed and I can tend to be more hot headed and open mouthed. I was just talking baout the fact on whether the odds of you getting attacked more because you are targeted for carrying a gun or not. Personally I feel that you will avoid more situations if people know you are armed. of course I also think this is not for everyone. Some people are just to ditzy and yes would run a good risk of having their gun taken from them. I am like Tedd though open or concealed I am aware of what goes on around me. And probably even more so when carrying open.

Besides trying my best to be aware of my surroundings...this is why I carry in my front pocket...it goes in easy, and it comes out easy, and I can keep my hands in my front pocket or pockets, and no one is the wiser, because I do it all the time.....as far as open carry, i say, if you can do it without getting thrown around by the local police, do it....if thats how you are comfortable carrying, do it....

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Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell

hi,

i am TedDeBearFrmHell and i am a 24/7 open carry guy. and while i do see that the tactical advantage in your scenario is lost on the good guy what you failed to realize that anyone can build a scenario that "proves" any idea they wish to promote..... just a few days ago there was a thread where diane sawyer "proved" that concealed carry doesnt do anyone any good either.

you can find me actively posting on the oregon section of opencarry.org . many of us are accused of "flaunting" our carry and justifiably so.... i council maturity but advice is not always taken.

i usually appendix carry my p6 in a yaqui slide, its right there for anyone to if they are looking. but i been carrying long enough that i dont spend any time finger banging it either.

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I STAND CORRECTED Recently I had an altercation which resulted in my having to draw my weapon; no shots fired. I truely believe the situation would not have occured if I had been openly carrying my firearm. Your point was driven home in a very dramatic way. I am now trying to come to terms with the idea of regularly carrying my gun openly.

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Originally Posted by Survivor

I STAND CORRECTED Recently I had an altercation which resulted in my having to draw my weapon; no shots fired. I truely believe the situation would not have occured if I had been openly carrying my firearm. Your point was driven home in a very dramatic way. I am now trying to come to terms with the idea of regularly carrying my gun openly.

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That made me giggle a little. Not that you had to pull your gun. It made me giggle , because it is just one of those awkward moments when you realize you think someone is crazy for doing something you can't really understand, only to find out they really weren't crazy, and that they might be on to something.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

I wasn't being sarcastic. It was an honest question about your experience.

But you don't need to apologize.

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Steve :

he takes you to task , game , set , and match

.....writes enough feedback to make you look bad ( REAL bad ! )

and the best comeback you can come up with is telling him he don't have to apologize ? :anim_lol:

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Originally Posted by Survivor

I STAND CORRECTED Recently I had an altercation which resulted in my having to draw my weapon; no shots fired. I truely believe the situation would not have occured if I had been openly carrying my firearm. Your point was driven home in a very dramatic way. I am now trying to come to terms with the idea of regularly carrying my gun openly.

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i recommend going to OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost! ... and clicking on the maps for your state... it will give you a butt ton of information and postings from people who oc in your area.

i am glad you walked away from the confrontation unscathed.

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Originally Posted by PAWPAUL

Steve :

he takes you to task , game , set , and match

.....writes enough feedback to make you look bad ( REAL bad ! )

and the best comeback you can come up with is telling him he don't have to apologize ? :anim_lol:

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I told him that he needn't apologize because I want him to feel comfortable in a continuing conversation with me and with everyone else who contributes here. He is just starting out, but he can learn a lot if he joins the conversation.

If you believe that the conversations on this forum are some sort of game, with winners and losers, then you have very little understanding of the arts of polite conversation and how to learn from others.

If you believe that what we post should make each other feel bad, or look bad, then you are acting very foolishly indeed.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

I told him that he needn't apologize because I want him to feel comfortable in a continuing conversation with me and with everyone else who contributes here. He is just starting out, but he can learn a lot if he joins the conversation.

If you believe that the conversations on this forum are some sort of game, with winners and losers, then you have very little understanding of the arts of polite conversation and how to learn from others.

If you believe that what we post should make each other feel bad, or look bad, then you are acting very foolishly indeed.

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OHHH EMMM GEEEE Steve... you got OWNED... or something. (sarcasm)

Steve is well respected around here as being pretty damn level headed, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt over a new poster. NO OFFENSE new poster, but I can already tell that you will take offense as you are obviously a troll. Welcome PAWPAUL to handgunforum.net.

Might be best to listen first... front later. Just sayin'. (btw... is that how the punks "tho down" now days or do we need to drop some shivs and go dirty?

Good Lord... you try to give good advice and they just want to argue of minutia. Welcome to Paris Hilton's interwebs!

Steve has the respect of a great deal of the folks here. It's for good reason. I'm confident that it will take more than infantile prattle to rile him.

Here's to hoping you can find something worthwhile to contribute.

Thanks for your votes of confidence, guys.
To quote Bugs Bunny: "Ah, me public...my fans."
:smt033

But please remember: Do not feed the troll.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

But please remember: Do not feed the troll.

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what he said....back on topic please

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Originally Posted by PAWPAUL

Steve :

he takes you to task , game , set , and match

.....writes enough feedback to make you look bad ( REAL bad ! )

and the best comeback you can come up with is telling him he don't have to apologize ? :anim_lol:

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I wasn't trying to make him look bad. I was just answering his questions and trying my best to give my reasonings for what I believe and think.

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Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell

i recommend going to OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost! ... and clicking on the maps for your state... it will give you a butt ton of information and postings from people who oc in your area.

i am glad you walked away from the confrontation unscathed.

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Thank you. Now I have something else to kill time with at work.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

I told him that he needn't apologize because I want him to feel comfortable in a continuing conversation with me and with everyone else who contributes here. He is just starting out, but he can learn a lot if he joins the conversation.

If you believe that the conversations on this forum are some sort of game, with winners and losers, then you have very little understanding of the arts of polite conversation and how to learn from others.

If you believe that what we post should make each other feel bad, or look bad, then you are acting very foolishly indeed.

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I will always be learning...FACT! part of conversing is being able to have a conversation, explain different view points without getting angry or trying to make someone else look bad. Unless, a person is just being a dick then it is kind of fun. But, I agree with Steve 100% on this. If I can't post something, only to have someone disagree with it, and then get mad because they don't agree or vice versa...then I nor the other person should be posting.

Do I get agrrivated sometimes, it is at that point I don't post and let myself calm down and think before I type.

Thanks, Brevard.
I appreciate your input.

And again:

Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun


http://ads.mlive.com/RealMedia/ads/a...n&4=&undefined

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An unarmed man attempted to rob an Eastern Michigan University student of his handgun Thursday morning while he walked on Pearl Street near the campus in Ypsilanti, university officials said.


According to an email alert sent out by EMU, the student — an open-carry advocate — was walking at about 9:15 a.m. in the 300 block of Pearl Street when he was approached by an unknown man. The man grabbed the student’s holstered handgun and attempted to wrestle it away from the student, according to the alert.
Another person walking by the area came to the student’s aid and was able to secure the handgun, EMU said in the statement.

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Apparently the suspect was not deterred, despite being unarmed.