Interesting. Her comments refer to another video from a confrontation at a Hardee's restaurant over open carry. The problem is, the guy carrying gets into a heated argument with some asshat, which gives a valid reason for the police to get a "man with a gun call" or a disturbance call. (which you just made legitimate) Maybe not the best way to go. Don't argue with an idiot. They will beat you with training and experience every time.
Open carry is interesting to me. It is legal in Ohio, where I live. and I am all for it. The problem starts when Mabel is washing her dishes and sees you walk past her kitchen window with your hogleg strapped on. Being unfamiliar with the law, she calls the PD and out goes the "man with a gun" call. Easy to understand. She means well, but is ignorant of the law. Hey, the media has taught her that guns are bad, right?
The dispatcher probably won't try to explain that open carry is legal, (if they even know) and even if he or she did, the liability is still too great to not send an officer to investigate.
Now Officer Friendly (hopefully) arrives. He is just doing his job, and it isn't his fault he got the call. He is going to ask for your I.D. Now it gets interesting.
You can choose not to cooperate, but I wouldn't advise it. At that point, the officer is conducting an investigation, and you will probably go to jail for obstruction if you refuse to identify yourself. He has the responsibility to make sure you are legally armed, and not a convicted felon, etc. Again, I suggest going with the flow, cooperating, and going on your way.
There are countless videos of confrontations over open carry with police (how convenient a camera just happened to be rolling) presumably to raise awareness and capture some big rights violation to further the cause or sue. Call me a wimp, but I wouldn't want to be the poster boy for any issue. I really can't see getting the police called on me daily to further any cause, whether within my rights, or not.
In my opinion, the key to further the cause of accepted open-carry is clearly public awareness and education. How to do this, however, is complicated. It isn't going to get the support of the liberal media.
My views are that of a retired cop, AND a gun advocate, so I am not taking sides, just stating reality.
i open carry alot. this pretty much means that 95% of the time i have a gun on my hip openly. the rest of the time its concealed. from the first day that i oc'd i understood that i was going to have interaction with people who misunderstood or disagreed with my doing so. i also knew that i would be under scrutiny by the police.
i planned to answer any polite question by the public politely. i planned to ignore any attempt to bait me into an angry response. in my interactions with the police (the one time) i stays on the park bench i had been relaxing on. kept my hands in sight, gave my name when asked and was treated politely, the cop even apologized for the hassle when it was over.
with the right to carry, there are responsibilities and one of them is to act like you deserve that right.
I agree with you that I don't really want to end up as the poster boy for open carry, but I do view it as highly important. I do not consider concealed carry a right, but I do consider open carry to be a Constitutionally protected right. If I heard about open carry being illegally harassed or discouraged in my area, I would likely start open carrying for a while. It's tempting to roll over and avoid conflict, but I know exactly what kind of carry they'd harass next.
there are very few hard and fast rules when it comes to oc/cc.....
In South Africa In the past people had the right to carry a handgun openly provided that the gun was in a proper holster attached to your body by means of a belt, ankle holster or shoulder holster.
From 1994 it is no longer legal to carry open (except for law enforcement and specially open carry licensed personnel) and it now compulsory to carry properly concealed - a serious crime if you don't: up to 5 years jail time!
I have been a law enforcement officer for 42 years and therefore allowed to carry open and I used to carry open in my private capacity untill 1994.
I have changed my mind and no longer recommend open carry by civilians for various reasons.
In the first place you can bet on it that some persons are going to complain if you dare to appear in any public place while carrying open - the resultant unpleasantness is simply not worth it - not even for the purpose of trying to make the one or other point.
A person who carry open has absolutely lost any surprise factor or tactical advantage over the criminals as you can bet your ass that they can shoot first or take your gun away if they really wants to - they don't forfeit their advantages by showing their guns going around carrying open.
We pro-gunners are damaging our case and give much ammo to the anti-gunners when we parade around in public with open guns!
What tactical advantage do you have when you have to raise your shirt or push your jacket back to get to your gun? The element of suprise is gone once you have to fiddle with your shirt or whatever to access it. If a guy is there to rob you and already has a gun what is to stop him from shooting you from making a move like to be able to get to your concealed gun. Most people don't realize that you do have to be able to get to your concealed gun without him reacting to it. Alot of people also are only considering the fact that they person who is saying robbing a gas station saw you walk in before hand, or that he was in before you walked in and staking the place out. What if you are looking at the chips or the drink and the guy comes in? odds are he is running in there and didn't pay any attention to what you were wearing and whether or not you have a gun.
The only tactical advantage I see of carrying concealed is if the guy is the ability to not show you cna defend yourself and play the situation out. Say for instance like in the movies where the guys rob a bank and take hostages (saying you can CC in your bank of course). You have the option of leaving your gun concealed until you feel the guy won't hurt anyone or you clearly have the upper hand. Where as at that point you are OC you risk getting shot first because you can defend yourself. but in reality you run the risk of getting robbed at an ATM or be in a gas station when it gets robbed. Even then someone who can show they can defend themselves usually aren't the target.
As to the ones who are worried about LEOs. If you go around and show yourself to be an "ass" yes you will get harassed. but the majority of LEOs aren't stupid. Be polite, be curtious, and show common sense you won't have to worry about it. people complain all the time oh his car stereo is too loud, her dress is too short, he is wearing to much cologne, those piercings and tattoos make them look like trash, blah blah blah. It is human nature to complain about stuff we don't like. The other part is having thick skin and letting stuff roll off your back. I was told I needed to be killed because I am overweight. Told i was a moron for believing in God, etc. The ability to put yourself in a higher disposition and being more mature is one of the ways you don't have to worry about getting in trouble for OC.
In Wisconsin, it has always been legal to open carry.....in and around the city I live in, there have been 4 instances where open carry was at issue, within the past year...... In the first, some poor guy was just out mowing his lawn, was openly carrying, someone called the police..he ended up in the prone position, following instructions, was handcuffed, was checked out, then let go..they gave him the gun back...the DA decided not to charge him with whatever they were going to charge him with...he was po'd, but that was the end of it......the second, was a guy who was strapped in a Menards...same scenario, only no prone position..checked him out, they were going to charge him with something, he threatened to sue, and they dropped whatever the charge was going to be...in the third, a woman openly carried into a church, and no one freaked while she was there, but as soon as the service was over, someone called the police, and as she was leaving, they stopped her, and by that time, she had put the gun on the seat...now, this was before CCW passed, so they were going to charge her with transporting a loaded, uncased weapon.......gun rights people got wind of this, and along with her, started to talk about sueing..they dropped the charges, but it was a semi large story here.....and then............about 3 months later, this same woman was sitting in her car, strapped, in a not so rosy part of town, she said thatr she was getting good wi-fi connection there, and the police stop......they ask questions, and in the process, her coat moves to reveal the handgun...this was also before CCW had passed...they were going to charge her for carrying a concealed weapon, because even though it was legal for her to open carry, the handgun was concealed by her coat.......they went ahead, charging her, and then she sued...she was awarded about $6500 for her trouble......point being after all of that..here, no matter if open carry is legal or not, no matter if there is CCW or not, if you openly carry a weapon, you must be prepared for the biggest hassle....you will be treated the same, regardless, although, a couple more lawsuits, and that may ease up....
IMO. This is not the wild west and I'm not John Wayne. Conceal carry. Only because of the dumb criminals and the gangs and the irresponsible and lest we not forget , the media. Why, even though it is our right (in some states), do we want to open carry, do we want to be hassled? Do we want to look like we are invincible or don't mess with me or I'm Billy bad ass? I am a gun advocate, thru and thru, but I don't think I should give the enemy more firepower than I have . Sometimes silence speaks louder than words. Hey, I know I will take flak for my opinion but it is ok to agree to disagree.
Thanks for making my point. :mrgreen:
The closest I get to open carry, is under a coat.........I usually do not want anyone to know, but there MAY come a time, in the future, when I feel it is necessary........I do not want to be hasseled, so , hopefully, this open carry topic will calm down here, and more may be able to do it, without people freaking out.....some feel it's necessary...
This is rare in my state. Very rare.
"A person who carry open has absolutely lost any surprise factor or tactical advantage over the criminals as you can bet your ass that they can shoot first or take your gun away if they really wants to - they don't forfeit their advantages by showing their guns going around carrying open."
This has been argued ad nauseam on a number of gun websites. I know of one case in my state where this has happened. Once case in millions of open carry outings over the past decade.
"We pro-gunners are damaging our case and give much ammo to the anti-gunners when we parade around in public with open guns!"
We don't see it that way in my state. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. I have only had one negative encounter in 5 1/2 years of OC'ing on a regular basis and that was from someone who was obviously not from Virginia. All other comments have been positive.
Please do keep in mind that where you live has a great deal to do with this issue.