P380 Frustration !

OK - I have a PM9 - love it. I have a MK9 - love it. I wanted a pocket gun so logically a p380 was the obvious choice.

1rst 5 rounds - completely missed the entire 8.5X11 sheet of paper much less the ring inside.

2nd mag - moved to 5 yards - now hitting the cardboard box below the sheet of paper.

Shoot 90 more rounds from 5 yards with no confidence at all. So I start thinking its me -I just need to get more familiar with the trigger, maybe I am anticipating recoil, etc... After 400 rounds more changing grip, shooting from rested positions and even a sandbag, I finally begin to think its the gun and not me. I let a friend WHO OWNS A GUN SHOP AND PERSONNALY CARRIES A P380 shoot it, and guess what - His first shot was 18" low and he only hit the target after he applied about 2 feet of KY windage. He says send it back to Kahr. I spend $63.00 to ship to Kahr as Fed EX is my only option in my area and they only ship overnight for handguns (at least that is what they told me) -

I get the gun back 10 days later from Kahr and they say they shot one magazine at 10 yards - noted no problems - no work performed. They included the target they shot and I swear the grouping was less than 1.5" - HOW DID THEY TEST THIS GUN ????

If they put it in some type of vice-like device - could compression of the polymer grip cause the barrell to "cam" upward ??? Anyone else have issues of their p380 shooting low. I've owned a "few" small guns and never had an issue like this. I want to like this gun. I need to like this gun as I now have way more than the $599 I paid for it invested. Suggestions ?? Beuhler ????

No question they have a stand/rest setup so there is no way a finger or hand twitch will move it off target. It might even be a hands-free job that eliminates all human error.

Did you test your accuracy from a rest or just free hand?

Blame will always fall on shooter first. Were your misses grouped or all over the place? Are your other guns single action or shorter trigger pull?

Good groups point to barrel or sight issues, spray pattern points to shooter generally.

...And even if it's the gun's fault, sights can be adjusted.
Even "non-adjustable" sights can be adjusted.

But, more often than not, it's the shooter, not the gun.

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Originally Posted by tomwalshco

No question they have a stand/rest setup so there is no way a finger or hand twitch will move it off target. It might even be a hands-free job that eliminates all human error.

Did you test your accuracy from a rest or just free hand?

Blame will always fall on shooter first. Were your misses grouped or all over the place? Are your other guns single action or shorter trigger pull?

Good groups point to barrel or sight issues, spray pattern points to shooter generally.

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I do not have a vice of any type. I shot the gun free hand with differing grips, from a solid platform rest, laying in prone position with entire wrist and hand enveloped in a sandbag. The gun groups very well - just significantly low.

I have several other handguns so I am accustomed to various triggers, but as I mentioned I own and regularly shoot a Kahr MK9 elite, and a Kahr PM9 and I am a damn good shot with each gun if I do say so myself ! -- The trigger on the P380 "feels" similar to the PM9 and the MK9Elite. My friend who owns the gun shop also shot it low. I am going to drop it off at his shop on Monday and let him keep it for a week or so. He said he will do a side-by-side comparison with his own P380 and put several mags thru it for his own satisfaction and if it proves to be a problem with the gun he will call Kahr for me and discuss the issue. Hopefully, he can get them to resolve it as he is a dealer. He said that he has been recommending the p380 as the best compact 380 on the market and hopes he isn't proven wrong.

I'm not egotistical enough to think it might not be me, but I have never owned a gun (and i've owned a few) that I couldn't figure out how to shoot within a couple of hundred rounds. The thought that I "traded up" by getting rid of my keltec is starting to make me a little nauseated.

So far I've spent :
$599.00 for gun
$ 65.00 taxes & background
$ 40.00 for Kahr brand p380 Holster
$160.00 for crimson trace
$200.00 minimum in ammo for 500 rounds which was not fun to shoot
$ 63.00 shipping to send in to Kahr

for a grand total of $ 1127.00 for a freakin' .380 that I can't hit a barn with !!! And it doesn't look like you can even give one away on gunbroker right now !

But I am going to wait until my friend puts it thru his testing b4 I give up. If he says its the gun - I will be the proverbial thorn in Kahr's A@@ until it is fixed. If he says the guns is OK and its just me - I'm selling it. SOMEBODY that can shoot it will be getting a good deal !!! :smt076

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

...And even if it's the gun's fault, sights can be adjusted.
Even "non-adjustable" sights can be adjusted.

But, more often than not, it's the shooter, not the gun.

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How do you adjust sights on a gun that shoots 18" low at 30 feet ??

I have actually removed the front sight already and filed the bottom of the sight to as slim as I care to do with home tools. I'm not going to do anything to the gun - yet. read my other reply -- it may be me but I really doubt it. I'll feel better after my gun dealer friend shoots it side by side with his personal 380 and ill make my decision based on that info

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Originally Posted by shaddaddy

EDIT: for a grand total of $ 1127.00 for a freakin' .380 that I can't hit a barn with !!!

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Occasionally this stuff happens and you get to take a bath $$$. It hurts fer sure, I had a Marlin levergun for SASS that the stock cracked in half first time I shot it. Got a new stock, (after a lenghty wait) then had feed problems. Gave up, dumped it, bought a Henry for way more dinero, really a great gun (though a tad heavy for some), but my belly still churns a bit over that dang Marlin! Sorry for your troubles, I feel your pain, but I reckon if you've been shooting long enough and go through a lot of guns, you're bound to encounter a lemon or two (don't get me started on my Kel-Tec .32 or Sig Mosquito!!!).
Eli :smt076

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Originally Posted by shaddaddy

...I have...removed the front sight...and filed the bottom of the sight to as slim as I care to do with home tools...[emphasis added]

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I don't understand what you've done. Please explain.
Normally, one files the top of the front sight, to make it shorter, when the gun shoots low. Filing the bottom of the sight will just make it loose, if it's held by a dovetail slot.
If your pistol truly shoots 18" low at 10 yards, you can shorten the front sight, or you can replace the rear sight with a higher one (even if you have to cut a new dovetail slot), or you could do both at once.

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

I don't understand what you've done. Please explain.
Normally, one files the top of the front sight, to make it shorter, when the gun shoots low. Filing the bottom of the sight will just make it loose, if it's held by a dovetail slot.
If your pistol truly shoots 18" low at 10 yards, you can shorten the front sight, or you can replace the rear sight with a higher one (even if you have to cut a new dovetail slot), or you could do both at once.

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Sorry - I didnt really explain myself correctly - First - I did file the top of the site down considerably, I had removed the site from the gun and while holding it firmly I removed a small amount of metal from the bottom surface - It seemed like a lot filing was done but in reality there wasn't much metal removed from the bottom and more was done on the top. Fit perfectly and snug back in dovetail.

Now the story ends - because as of yesterday I no longer own the gun !!! -- I went to a local gun show - met a private collector - and yes I told him the gun shoots low - he sd he was only concerned if
it was accurate to about 5 feet. Anyway - I gave him the Kahr, Crimson Trace, and a blue standard Sig p232 with 2 boxes of .380 ammo for a Kimber Custom Tactical II. I have about $400 more in the Kimber than I'd like but I'm done with it, and for me that removes a little aggravation from my life. I think for a while - My PM9 is as small as I'm going to go. I think I am done with .380's - at least for a while !

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Originally Posted by shaddaddy

EDIT:Now the story ends - because as of yesterday I no longer own the gun !!!

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Ahh, a very Eli-like solution!
:smt082

Sorry to hear about all of your issues. I had a post running several months back on my PM9. I had to send it back twice before they fixed it. I almost purchased the P380, the only thing holding me back was the price. I ended up getting a Ruger LCP. I must have put about 800 rounds through it with no issues at all. The sights suck so I sent it out to Innovative Arms and they put a great set of night sights on it.

Ibought a new 380 kahr, if it ain't running after 500 rounds. I guess i'll be burned again. Have had bad luck with kt380's, one p32 runs great. Getting tired of sending 380's back to American companies. If glock only made one same size as kahr. Oh well, lose a few hundred on a couple of 380's and pull a hank snow.

update: 2nd day of 380 shooting...

it really perked up, don't know why! Running98% or 99% on second day. Only about 120 rounds. I'll keep shooting it. A lil' happy with it so far.

And I am shooting my nice reloads too! Well, I think their nice reloads and others at range do also.


KAHRHAULER

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Originally Posted by kahrhauler

Ibought a new 380 kahr, if it ain't running after 500 rounds. I guess i'll be burned again. Have had bad luck with kt380's, one p32 runs great. Getting tired of sending 380's back to American companies. If glock only made one same size as kahr. Oh well, lose a few hundred on a couple of 380's and pull a hank snow.

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Glock does make a .380 but it is only for LFO's.

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Originally Posted by Steve S

Glock does make a .380 but it is only for LFO's.

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Actually, its not even imported into the USA. Not enough "points" for the ATF import system. They'd have to be made here in the USA to sell them

I meant to say LEO's. I would purchase a Glock .380 in a heart beat. My Kahr P380 has been in the shop since April 12th.