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Home defense is a job for anything that immediately falls to hand.
Closest is a loaded .45 ACP pistol. Not far off is a loaded 12ga shotgun. A rifle is not the best HD tool, but I can see its usefulness in a not-yet-in-the-house, multi-attacker scenario.
Fusil, where you are you should just throw apples at them, or drown them in Calvados.
Hmmm... That brings up a good pensée Normand: Sanglier, marinée en Calvados, rôti pomme-en-bouche! Miam!
:drooling:
Shotguns not only create the most damage at HD ranges (and a little farther) but they are a much more responsible choice in terms of over penetration. Rifle rounds can easily punch through walls in your house and enter neighbors houses where as a shotgun is pretty much garunteed to stop within your house. IMHO if you need to stop someone up close there really is no better option than a 12 ga shotgun.
Buckshot penetrates more layers of drywall than a .223. So does just about any pistol round. The 223 starts getting sideways and starts to fragment as soon as it hits the first layer of drywall. After two layers of a wall, the second wall will only show splatter of the 223 impacting it. Buckshot will penetrate the second wall. I'm not saying which is better for home defense, just saying there is alot of misinformation about what and how different projectiles penetrate. Tests confirming this information are easily found. This stuff has already been covered in this thread, I just thought it was worth repeating because I'm sure not everybody has read everything posted. Kind of a long one.
To many people think that the shotgun is some kind of magical device that just makes the bad guys go away with the racking of the slide. Another common mistake is loading up with 00 buck or slugs for home defense. Those loads will definitely put the hurt on a bad guy, but they will also penetrate thru several layers of drywall and end up who knows where. Another misconception is to point in the general direction of the baddie and fire away. Most experts agree that #4 buck is better for home defense. It puts significant lead deep in the target with less risk of overpenetration. Bird shot is generally considered as a poor choice for HD. While it does make for an ugly wound, it doesn't penetrate enough to reach vital organs. Slugs are a proven man stopper, but they will sail thru the average interior/exterior wall. Then there's the guy who swears by the 3" magnum. These are great if you enjoy punishing your shoulder, but offer no real advantage for HD.
Like any weapon system, there are no guarantees. There are numerous variables you must consider when choosing a firearm or ammo for HD. Too many of us don't take the time to properly research before we "load up". There are many shotgun loads available that are designed for home defense, developed from actual shootings. They are more expensive, but I think our families are worth the cost. We need to put away the "Rambo" mentality and be realistic about HD.
@ fusel
Is a "coach" gun a short double barrel shotgun in France?
That's what we call them over here.
just spent a couple of hours reviewing a 410 shotgun mosserg 500 for HD
most of the articles were discussing the 410 at 50 yds and 25 yds but excuse me but that is not HD ranges
so the muzzle energy ranges were searched and found better data
yea there were positive articles and i agree with these
410 at HD ranges is very adequate, mild recoil for wife, won't overpenetrate the walls - i just don't see a downside
Who cares about wall penetration if you have a home invader to protect yourself from? I want the fire power of a 12 ga to stop a hyped up meth user. Im just sayin....
your child, loved one or neighbor on the otherside of the wall might care....Quote:
Originally Posted by legallyarmed
why bother worrying about a hyped up meth user if you are more of a danger than they are. you are obviously correct.
What Ted said. Get married and have kids and you will care.Quote:
Originally Posted by legallyarmed
That was an easy one. The scatter gun wins hands down.
Weatherby PA459....... just picked it up a week ago...:buttkick:
Here the thing I dont understand
Now like ok, I agree a shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon... BUT WHAT IF...
Idk maybe a baddy grabs someone you love as a human shield (and come on you catch a home invader and you have a gun they can definitely do something like that). Unless you have a slug or something you cant really do shit about it
Not to say your better off with a rifle even a pistol but at least in that scenario you aren't spraying shrapnel or shots everywhere
guess what i voted for??? duh shotguns, i use my sawed off mossy 835 pump as a door prop for such an occasion, if my 870 didnt have such a long barrel it would take the mossbergs place, i love those 870s though i gotta get a short one. you know what would make the best pump 12ga? if the 870s had a safety like the mossbergs, thats why i love my 835 very easy access
Um, do you shoot well enough to hit the very little bit of a hostage-taker that will show from behind the hostage?Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeleinen1
Even using a precise pistol (or even a rifle) and really good technique, it's a low-percentage shot, more likely to injure your loved one than the BG.
In the situation you postulate, I suggest that the very best thing to do is to point out to the BG that he's in a standoff: If he hurts the hostage, he will die right then and there, and if he attempts to shoot you, the hostage will make him miss.
Then you offer to let him go if he lets the hostage go.
(And, maybe, then you kill him.)
steve's obviously done this before lol but no bs he is right your talking about an extremely stressful situation/enviroment and placing a shot like that is for the movies, i have to agree with steve 100% cuz that would be your best bet if your not wanting harm to your loved one, which you shouldnt. but anyways thats a tough call and could potentially injure someone you care about, and probably get you killed as well cuz your naturally going to lose focus if you accidentally shoot said hostage, and that gives enough time for the perp to take you out. be smart, work smart not hard. just my 2 cents
Probably a 20 gage is a better choice for most people.
My sister, who used to live in the "country" in that it took about 20 minutes for the police to arrive after dialing 911, was having problems with "wood poachers".
This was in the 1970s and oil had just gotten expensive (relatively). Wood for fireplaces was in high demand. One day the wood poachers came to her yard and started up chain saws and started cutting up some trees. She went out there to tell them to leave and they threatened her with the chain saw. She went in the house and dialed 911, but the poachers knew they had time so they finished their cuts and drove off.
I bought my sister (who hated guns) a Sears 20 gage break action single shot. This is probably the safest gun for a novice to own. I gave her some lessons and she was good to go. The poachers came back once but when she came out this time (she hadn't even closed the action--but it was loaded), they quickly drove off.
The nice thing about a shot gun is that it points pretty naturally for most people (if the gun is sized right). There is little danger of shooting yourself in the arm or leg (toes are vulnerable though).
I would have preferred getting her a pump action but I was afraid that she would leave it unloaded all the time. I was also concerned that in an emergency that she might short stroke the action. The break action deals with these fears easily. (Plus it only cost $65.00.)
The sound of a pump action being cycled will often end a confrontation. A 12 gage blast certainly will. You have to practice with it to make sure that you don't short stroke the action during a stressful situation.
These responses have gotten WEIRD
For HD a 410 or 20 gauge is FINE
I choose 410 and mossberg ( when I get theoney together)
At the ranges of indoor shooting in a home 410 is fine =3" 000 buck
Now if m bane is correct I can hardly wait till Taurus imports the range hand
He reports that it be coming
I think one of the most disheartening sounds for an intruder to hear, is a round being chambered into a pump shotgun...... and that gives me the shivers, cause it is a sound i like to hear, when I am the one doing the chambering....a very comforting feeling, sure handguns are nice, and have one handy at all times and for HD , but the ole 870 is always on guard.
I will carry a gun to protect me and my family, I will call the police to do the paperwork. If I have time to dial 911, in a bad situation, two things I have to consider, police response time= 4 minutes, more like 30 where I live, time it takes to dial 911 = at least two double taps.
Shotgun. 12g..with buckshot
My HK Fabarm Tactical 12g is under my bed..
With my carry gun in the nightstand ..
I sleep just fine