Showing My Ignorance

:smt1099Will someone give me a little history or a link on the Kel-Tec line of 380 cal. auto. pistols. I am very GREEN on guns. I looked at a 9mm today and the dealer said the 380 is smaller than the 9mm. Dont know what the model # were. I am wanting the gun for CC. Are these guns any good? Can you hit anything with them or any of these small cal. guns? Never heard of them until today. Dont want to make anybody mad. How are you to learn about different brands without asking questions. I had to get a permit to carry when three guys got after me on my mowers two years ago. I have a High Standard 22 Mag.Der. I carry now. Not very accurate over twenty feet. Wanted something that shotes more than two times. A Colt Cobra 357 Mag is a little large to hang out of your pocket. ( I can hit something with it.) How about a little help or a different brand??? THANKS TO ALL :smt1099

I was in the same boat you are in now about two years ago.

Keltec .380 is called Kel-tec P3AT. Ruger makes a spitten image called LCP. There is currently a recall on the LCP as supposedly it (MIGHT) go off if dropped. I own one and am very pleased with it. Kahr Arms is coming out with a P380 this month. Kahr is a bit pricey but I believe the asthetics of the Kahr are better than Ruger and Kel-tec. However that IMO and I own a Kahr PM9.

Pocket 9's, as they are refered to, are another way to go. Beretta makes PX4SC, Beretta Cougar, Springfield Armory XD9sc, Kahr MK9 or PM9, etc. just to name a few. They are larger than the Kel-tec and Ruger but are 9's versus' .380.

The best advice I could suggest is if you have a pistol range available see if you can rent as many as possible and shoot as many as possible. You will find one that you really like. Then start asking questions on HGF about it.

If you are like me. You will purchase one then decide you like another better then buy that one also. In two years, I have ended up with 7 hand guns. All have a different purpose but are fun to shoot.

Enjoy, enjoy.

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Originally Posted by wildcatbrownhound

:smt1099Will someone give me a little history or a link on the Kel-Tec line of 380 cal. auto. pistols. I am very GREEN on guns. I looked at a 9mm today and the dealer said the 380 is smaller than the 9mm. Dont know what the model # were. I am wanting the gun for CC. Are these guns any good? Can you hit anything with them or any of these small cal. guns? Never heard of them until today. Dont want to make anybody mad. How are you to learn about different brands without asking questions. I had to get a permit to carry when three guys got after me on my mowers two years ago. I have a High Standard 22 Mag.Der. I carry now. Not very accurate over twenty feet. Wanted something that shotes more than two times. A Colt Cobra 357 Mag is a little large to hang out of your pocket. ( I can hit something with it.) How about a little help or a different brand??? THANKS TO ALL :smt1099

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History: Made in Cocoa Beach, FL between batches of Space Shuttle Parts... since the fleet is retiring, they're makin lots of guns.

Quality: Ugly, and unrefined finishes, but utterly reliable (P-3AT, and P32) PF-9 had issues, but most resolved. P-11 is a thicker bigger 9mm P-3AT/32... reliable, but crude. They are VERY good for the price.

380 is considered by many the MINIMUM caliber for defense. Many consider the 9mm the minimum, but I carry my '3AT happily every day.

Accuracy: Considering my P-3AT barely HAS sights... it is quite accurate for the intended ranges... INSIDE 20 ft. Mine shoots 4" groups at 20 ft pretty happily.

Plinking: They are NASTY little buggers because they are so light. Not fun for range toys, great for pocket-defense.

22Mag is VERY small for defense. Will not reliably stop anyone without a brain/spine hit.

www.kel-tec-cnc.com

Google is you friend, as is this forum... Read for about 4-5 hours, then start asking!!!

Welcome,

Jeff

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Originally Posted by JeffWard

History: Made in Cocoa Beach, FL between batches of Space Shuttle Parts... since the fleet is retiring, they're makin lots of guns.

Quality: Ugly, and unrefined finishes, but utterly reliable (P-3AT, and P32) PF-9 had issues, but most resolved. P-11 is a thicker bigger 9mm P-3AT/32... reliable, but crude. They are VERY good for the price.

380 is considered by many the MINIMUM caliber for defense. Many consider the 9mm the minimum, but I carry my '3AT happily every day.

Accuracy: Considering my P-3AT barely HAS sights... it is quite accurate for the intended ranges... INSIDE 20 ft. Mine shoots 4" groups at 20 ft pretty happily.

Plinking: They are NASTY little buggers because they are so light. Not fun for range toys, great for pocket-defense.

22Mag is VERY small for defense. Will not reliably stop anyone without a brain/spine hit.

www.kel-tec-cnc.com

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What he said.

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Originally Posted by buck32

Pocket 9's, as they are refered to, are another way to go. Beretta makes PX4SC, Beretta Cougar, Springfield Armory XD9sc, Kahr MK9 or PM9, etc. just to name a few. They are larger than the Kel-tec and Ruger but are 9's versus' .380.

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How big are your pockets?!?! I carry an XD9SC and I'd never consider it a pocket gun. A sub-compact, yes. Pocket gun, no. My P3AT is a pocket gun.

I like a 380 as a BUG (Back Up Gun). Fits perfectly in my front pants pocket.

The trigger can be a little off-putting. On my Ruger LCP, the trigger has a long travel and a weight of 7 to 8 lbs. The sites are marginal. My solution to these challenges is a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. They are also available for the P3AT. The laser provides an invaluable tool for learning and maintaining trigger discipline, especially with dry firing. It's hard to ignore muzzle movement amplified by 12 distance on my wall at home. I also added a florescent dot from NiteSiters (one of our sponsors) on the front sight to make to more visible.

The 380 is considered a marginal round. I am intrigued by Hornady's new offering of Critical Defense ammo that is supposed to reliably penetrate clothes and to reliably expand. http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786. I received some yesterday that I ordered from MidwayUSA. I'll try to shoot some today to make sure it works well in the LCP.

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Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

The 380 is considered a marginal round.

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A marginal round is better than no round at all. I personally don't carry a back up gun, I carry more magazines. I practice "failure drills" so that if my main weapon fails to fire, I can get it back in the fight. It would take longer in most instances to switch to a back up gun than it does to Tap, Rack, Bang a main gun. Practice it and you'll see. Once it gets warm enough to film outside again, I'll make a vid.


Zhur

All of the above is great advice.

My personal opinion is that anything below 9mm is really just too small, but if it is all you are able to conceal, a .380 might just save your butt, if skillfully used, and with a little bit of good luck. The .380 is lacking slightly in its ability to achieve enough expansion and penetration, at the same time. You can change ammo till the cows come home, and you will never quite achieve both, so you choose which you want most, and buy the ammo that will accomplish that. I personally choose penetration over expansion (today), so I use ball (FMJ) ammo in my LCP. I believe that I will hit where I aim with at least one or two shots, so if I am right, the ball ammo might do the job, against a single attacker.

KelTec P3AT and Ruger LCP are the two best values in a pocket size pistol. The Ruger is currently being recalled, but is a good gun, nevertheless. The KelTec comes from the factory a little bit rough, sometimes, but has a good reputation for dependability, once broken in.

Throw the derringer into a deep well, before it gets you hurt, and don't mess with any of those super cheap guns. You are betting your life, in any situation where you would be justified in drawing a weapon. Save up your money and buy something that will work, then fire hundreds (if not thousands) of practice rounds through it, and pray that you never need it.

Agree with what Jeff said.

Have .380's, 9m's, .38's, .40.

Carry my P3AT daily for convenience. Very pleased with my P-11 too. Not a show gun, but mine has been reliable.

:smt1099Another question; The two models I think I looked at, are they a single action gun? In other words each time you fire, the hammer has to travel the full amount as with a double action you have a cocked position. Another thing I have heard for years that a 22mag is one of the most deadly calibers for a belly gun you could have????? THANKS :smt1099

Please check out the Kel-Tec PF-9. I love mine and I carry it in my pocket every day. I purchased mine only a couple months ago, but have had absolutely NO PROBLEMS with it. I just put a Crimson Trace on it, and I love it even more.

I have heard only good things about the P3AT (or P-three eighty!). I don't have one, but if the quality is as good as my PF-9, then it'll shoot and last well, too.

Have fun!

Hank

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Originally Posted by wildcatbrownhound

:smt1099Another question; The two models I think I looked at, are they a single action gun? In other words each time you fire, the hammer has to travel the full amount as with a double action you have a cocked position. Another thing I have heard for years that a 22mag is one of the most deadly calibers for a belly gun you could have????? THANKS :smt1099

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It appears you have some confusion about the differences between SA, DA/SA, and DAO. Didn't you say you have your CCW permit? This is really basic stuff, didn't they cover it in your class? I'm going to strongly suggest you consider taking a NRA basic pistol course because whoever is feeding you information about guns and ammo is not doing you any favors.

From member Steve M1911A1 in a past thread:

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Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1

SA (Single Action) = the trigger feels the same, always. The trigger pull is short, and can be pretty light.
DAO (Double-Action Only) = the trigger feels the same, always. The pull is usually long and relatively heavy. This is a useful option, for instance for a pocket-carry pistol.
DA/SA ("Traditional" Double Action) = in a semi-auto, the trigger feels long and heavy for your first shot, and then switches to relatively short and light for all subsequent shots. Some people find that the transition from DA first shot to SA subsequent shots negatively affects speed and accuracy. But in a revolver, you have the choice of DA or SA for each shot, at your option, and pay no transition penalty.

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Originally Posted by Todd

What he said.



How big are your pockets?!?! I carry an XD9SC and I'd never consider it a pocket gun. A sub-compact, yes. Pocket gun, no. My P3AT is a pocket gun.

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Insulated carhartt coveralls:smt082, just kidding.

Cargo shorts. Carry my PM9 in them without a hitch and would consider it a pocket 9. Would agree the Beretta and XD are a bit (ok, bigger than bit) on the large side.

WBH - If you can get out a shoot them, shoot them.

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Originally Posted by Todd

I'm going to strongly suggest you consider taking a NRA basic pistol course because whoever is feeding you information about guns and ammo is not doing you any favors.

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+1

Take the class. You'll probably leave the class with a better idea of what you want in a gun...

-Jeff-

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Originally Posted by Todd

It appears you have some confusion about the differences between SA, DA/SA, and DAO. Didn't you say you have your CCW permit? This is really basic stuff, didn't they cover it in your class? I'm going to strongly suggest you consider taking a NRA basic pistol course because whoever is feeding you information about guns and ammo is not doing you any favors.

:smt083From member Steve M1911A1 in a past thread:

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Well every now and then I show my ignorance. You are correct. I had the actions backward. I do that all the time when talking to people. Sorry. I think you knew what I was getting at. I meant the harder it is to pull the trigger the less accurate. That is the best thing about these forums you get some good stuff from you people. That is the reason I am on here. THANKS :smt083

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Originally Posted by wildcatbrownhound

Well every now and then I show my ignorance.

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Hence your thread title. :smt023

pants pocket get the keltec 3AT or Ruger LCP or KelTec PF-9
these require at least 200 rounds to break in to be totally reliable
if you wear cargo pants or tactical pants you could get a S&W J Frame or Glock 26
in all cases get a pocket holster for it so it will not show easily

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Originally Posted by unpecador

Hence your thread title. :smt023

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:smt083That is what it said. That is the reason I am on here. I will be the first to admit that I dont know a lot about guns. Someone on here said
"it is what you learn after you know it all is what counts":smt083