My thoughts about the Taurus product exactly!
Its a great gun, SD i don't know about. I like using it for when I am gathering goodies like wild artichokes, snakes like the undergrowth alot. the .410 comes on handy for a quick shot at a few feet. if you were going to use it for SD, keep the .45s loaded and for what I use it for .410's
But do you eat the snakes you kill?
Do you know why we aren't knee-deep in rats, mice, and voles?
It's because snakes eat 'em.
The only reasons to kill a snake would be because it threatens you in such a way as to keep you from retreating, or because you're hungry for snake meat.
Tired of hearing all of this penetration nonsense. While it is important in a single projectile not so much in multiple. You can hit someone in the face with a blackjack filled with lead shot and get no penetration at all but they are going down for the count. I am not counting on how deep it penetrates. I am counting on stopping the attacker. While penetration is important to reach vital organs I am looking to stop the attacker not necessairly reach vital organs. The only sure stoppers instantly are the femer bone or a brain box shot or sever the spinal cord. I know of a lot of cases with wounds of the lungs and or heart and the attcker keeps on coming stabs you to death or beats you to a pulp then dies. However a face full of birdshot is a stopper. Also 7 yards is quite a long distance in a home. you are talking 21 feet. Sooo...just saying. A judge is a stopper, not an instant garanteed killer, nothing is. Also a great penetration round is not much good if it misses, and a lot of people under stress are not great shots at 7 yards with a single projectile weapon...however with some scatter shot...well I hope you see my point.
DAD ,(my son speaking)
A shot to the brain, heart,or lungs always stops the attacker. Certain animals have smaller brains making the target smaller.
My jaw hit the floor how he would even say or know this. He was playing his Wii video games..oh boy,
Maybe a silly question, but wouldn't it be easier to just use the handgun you carry for in-car defense? I guess that assumes you carry one. If you don't, I'd highly recommend it. Then you can defend yourself in AND outside your car. Or are you asking about carrying the Judge in your car in addition to your carry gun?
All I know is I love my Taurus Judge Magnum. Unless I`m facing a truly insane person or a real zombie, I think a normal bad guy is gonna crap their pant if a Judge is pointed at them. After the first BOOM, if they are still standing, I believe they are gonna be running as fast as crap smeared legs will allow. Just my thoughts. :)
Do you mean that merely knocking an attacker down is sufficient to permanently end the fight?
Have you ever tried this? Or is it mere conjecture?
To answer your question about the blackjack I just used that as a point of getting hit in the face with quite a bit or force. If you can stand getting hit in the face with a blackjack weighing around 2 or 3 pounds by someone you are one guy to be feared for sure. It takes the fight out of one for sure. I believe it was Mike Tyson who said everyone is a tough guy until they get hit in the face.
While I definitely would not stand up well to a blow to the face with either a blackjack or Mike Tyson's fist, neither of these examples defines the performance of the Judge.
You are absolutely correct... neither of these examples defines the performance of the Judge. The Judge speaks for itself.
Take The Judge out loaded with anything from 7 1/2 to 000buck and use it on a target at 10 to 20 feet and see what you come up with. If a head shot the face will be obliterated. It this were a person the incident is over.
Here is some interesting info on the Judge. Ballistic Gelatin Results
I am not saying it is the most fantastic stopper in the world, but I am tired of hearing some people saying how inadequate of a stopper it is.
How could this be considered "inadequate"?, lol.
The Raging Judge...
...And it's so easy to conceal!
One good thing about that gun is you can find ammo anywhere right now for it. 45LC maybe not but 410 is just about every where and its cheap.
If properly used in the confines of the distance this is made from up very close and personal to 20 0r 25 feet and one shoots for the head why do you feel it is as you say "marginally effective". If one gets shot in the face with the discharge from this weapon at this range the senario is over. More than likely the attacker is blind and if not blind in such pain as they cannot function after getting hit in the face with a 410 shotgun shell charge.
Yea marginally effective if you are trying to be a cowboy and shot someone at 30 yards with your Judge 410 that is not a threat to you. Give me a break. I posted earlier on this thread ballistics on this weapon at reasonable distance. Check them out then tell me it is marginally effective. All weapons are marginally effective if you use them in the wrong way and at the wrong distances. This is a close up weapon to be used as a stopper at distances from very close to aroound 25 feet. In that vein it goes way beyond marginally effective if you do your part as with any weapon.
I guess that my question about the Judge is, "Why?"
Every bullet-firing pistol is more effective, usually by a large margin.
Even if the .410 shot-shell works at very short range, so does a bullet, with less felt recoil, and from a more concealable and easier-to-handle gun.
Using a Judge still requires of its user the same practice, to achieve effectiveness, that a bullet-firing gun requires.
What does a Judge do, that lots of smaller, handier, less user-painful, lighter-weight, bullet-firing pistols won't also do?
If I have to explain why you don't aim at someones "face" then I am wasting my time.
Yes you are wasting your time as your post shows nor explains anything. To be effective one must hit what they are aiming at. Much easier to hit something with the Judge than a single projectile firearm under duress. I have shot a Judge and all of the popular calibers of pistols and by far and away the Judge is the easiest to score a head shot with the lest amount of practice at 15 ft at speed. By the way I do not own a Judge.
Further more to answer the question of WHY THE JUDGE. Simple answer multiple projectiles. Much better chance of hitting your target under stress. Take a quick point and shoot shot with a single projectile firearm at 15 feet. Now do the same with the Judge. Tell me how well you did by shooting at the head with both firearms. Let me tell you. You have wounds with the Judge and you "may" and I say "may" have hit the head with the single projectile firearm. If you missed your adversary is now closer and closing with speed. However believe me if he got hit with a projectile from the judge he is definitely slowed down or stopped and you can fire again for a complete stop in the face.
By the way I do not care how much penetration you get to reach vital organs from the other weapons. I am looking for an attack stopper...that is where the Judge excels. It is not for penetration and killing lions and tigers and bears and deer...it is made to stop an attacker. If I want penetration... I feel most handguns are inadequate and if penetration is what I want I will use a rifle as that is what it is intended for.
Please refer back to USVI's post.
• The yellow gelatin with the short ruler in front of it displays typical penetration by pellets from a Judge's .410 load. Note that these pellets penetrate less than four inches. This represents insufficient penetration, in respect to human flesh and whatever might be covering it. Further, the pellets' channels exhibit very little tissue damage
• The FBI has decided, after extensive testing, that for a sure stop, penetration into gelatin needs to be in the vicinity of one foot. This translates into an ability to pass through clothing and still do useful damage. Note the associated photos of gelatin penetration of several bullets, and the wound cavity those bullets leave behind.
• Hits to the face may be ineffective because the human skull is a pretty tough piece of armor. Yes, the Judge's pellets will damage the face, and may even blind someone, but this is not a sure thing because the Judge seems to have proven itself to be fairly inaccurate when firing shotgun pellets.
• Pain itself is not a sure stopper, particularly when your opponent is "high" on angry adrenaline or one drug or another. The only sure stopper, it seems, according to the FBI, is shock and tissue damage, and neither of these are the products of a shot load from the Judge.
That is why several of us believe the Judge to be ineffective and fairly useless.
You may feel differently. You, or any Judge user, can freely put yourself "on the line" with whatever defensive weapon you choose.
We merely disagree with you. Strongly. As the result of hard evidence.
Rapid fire of a Sig P226 Tacops Threaded barrel 9mm - YouTube
The above link is just a you tube of a rapid firing sig 226, looks like recoil is minimal.
The judge is More like a conversation piece, look at the conversation we've had already.
The judge might have a purpose, but I would be more confident rapid firing a hail of 9 mm rounds in a self defense situation.
YES, I would own a Taurus judge. I would find a use for it.
While the Judge may rise to the level of adequate depending on ammo, it's by no means reinvented the concept of self defense with a handgun.
As a shotgun, the judge is compromised by it's exceedingly short, rifled barrel.
As a "normal" revolver, it's accuracy potential less than that of a standard .45 colt revolver, due to the long chambers.
As a firearm in general, it's compromised by being a Taurus.
The worst of all possible worlds.
If for some reason one feels that this type of weapon is the way forward, at least spring for the S&W Governor.
i have one but it is not to carry in my truck. i like the gun just as something to go to the range with i use PDX1 410 defender ammo. i would say its not a good gun to carry in your car.