View Poll Results: Opinion: Pit Bull

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  • Pit Bulls as a breed are more dangerous than other breeds.

    56 40.29%
  • They are just a dog. They are no more/ less dangerous than other breeds.

    70 50.36%
  • Pit Bulls are harmless dogs, they are less dangerous than other breeds.

    2 1.44%
  • Other, Please tell us.

    11 7.91%
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  1. #101
    8Eric6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sig225 View Post
    Wherever they go ..... trouble soon follows.

    Do you ever see that breed as a Leader Dog ?

    Or a Police Dog ?

    We all make choices.
    it appears your mind is already made up no reason to speak on your Ignorance.

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  3. #102
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    No .... just common sense. My post are not intended to start any type of argument. Remember, we all vary in our ideas and the choices we make. Nothing against the Pitbull breed. They are just not for everyone. I just don't beleive in them as a family "pet" where there are children involved. I respect your opinion, and that is your right.
    Also .... this is a handgun forum, so I try not to get personal on topics other than firearms. We're all here for a reason ...


  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by sig225 View Post
    No .... just common sense. My post are not intended to start any type of argument. Remember, we all vary in our ideas and the choices we make. Nothing against the Pitbull breed. They are just not for everyone. I just don't beleive in them as a family "pet" where there are children involved. I respect your opinion, and that is your right.
    Also .... this is a handgun forum, so I try not to get personal on topics other than firearms. We're all here for a reason ...

    I guess I was kinda being a weiner. I just love my dog like family as I'm sure you do with your pets, so I get defensive. I guess we'll just agree to disagree, But I see we agree on sigs being amazing!!!!

  5. #104
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    Hey ... no sweat ... that's why we are here, to discuss, learn .. and compare notes ...

  6. #105
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    I voted other. I had two pi tbull females, both spaded. Apart they are both fabulous dogs, great with people. They lived happily together for two years and then suddenly became aggressive toward one another. Their fights were terrifying and expensive in vet bills. After the third fight, we had to get rid of one pf them because they would not quit fighting until exhausted and injured. I love pit bulls, but they are dangerous when they move into the "red zone" and the transition is so rapid that it makes them unpredictable.

    I would not have one with small children or other animals, but I still love them.

  7. #106
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    thoughts

    I started this thread a long time ago to see what everyone's "opinions" were on the breed and I have to say I am overall impressed with the response, and somewhat surprised at the poll numbers. The breed obviously gets a bad rap from the media. It is unfortunate that due to their skills and abilities they often times attract the type of person that is not responsible enough to raise them the right way.

    I know that there are still plenty of people that will say that pits are all evil and cant be trusted. That is to be expected...I hope that there was someone who read this thread or left a few comments that might have learned something and have a better understanding about the breed. If not, then it was good conversation to say the least

  8. #107
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    I voted that they are just another dog. My 11 week old pitbull made his first step to becoming a great dog last night and put himself between coyotes and my family. Not only did no one see the coyotes but because of his early warning I was able to unload birdshot and load some more formidable shells in my mossberg grab the mag lite and watch the varmints follow the fence line and get the hell out of dodge while my moms rott and terrier stood there dumb founded.

  9. #108
    Swamp is offline Junior Member
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    I voted that they are more dangerous which is the only choice like that. I believe Pit Bulls are far more capable of being dangerous dogs than most other breeds; for example Chows can also be vicious dogs. The most important factor though is training and how the dog is handled/treated. I live in a big city and watch people walking Pit Bulls that are literally dragging them down the street giving the impression the dog is completely untrained and probably quite vicious. I would say that people in big cities tend to buy them as weapons and even often train them to be aggressive and they are a great bread to get if that's your intention. On the other hand, Pit Bulls can, with proper training be as lovable and well behaved as a Golden Retriever, they're just more likely to be the weapon of someone who wants the breed for protection. Lets face it, if a dog owner whats a loving dog, you cant beat a Golden Retriever with no special training. So you have to ask yourself, if someone buys a Pit Bull and doesn't intend to PROPERLY train it, why are they buying it?

    Frankly after seeing repeated carnage from Pit Bulls, I believe you should be required to buy at least a million dollar umbrella insurance policy to cover the damage such dogs cause in the hands of irresponsible people, or some sort of mandatory training and followup. Sounds mean but when you see a little girls face ripped off and there's no money to make it right because it's a typical lower income city resident's daughter and dog owner who acted irresponsibly??? Tell that little girl who now looks like a freak what loving dogs Pit Bulls are and see if she believes you. I watch court TV programs all day long and you can count on multiple Pit Bull carnage hearings daily; that's no accident or coincidence. It's a numbers fact, you can cry unfair, it's only a dog or any other politically correct response you want but a Pit Bull in the wrong hands is dangerous, the numbers say so indisputably. Sometimes you need to face reality.

    I've considered getting a Pit Bull, trained right of course because I live in the city; they're dang good watch dogs but I have a rental on my property and cant take the risk even with proper training; you never know.

  10. #109
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    Pit bulls differ from all others due to their jaw strength.Bites measured by
    P.S.I...These dogs are chosen fighters because of it.Not that they are more
    aggressive,but because they do more damage with a single bite,than
    most others do with several.

  11. #110
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    So then you're saying it's just a coincidence that Pit Bulls are the subject of consistent news reports and law suits about Pit Bull attacks and the death and carnage they do while going nuts on people and other dogs and no other breed but a close second Rottweilers? Is it just their strong bite that causes them to grab the neck of their prey and shake them till their death similar to a alligator's death strategy?

    Buy the way I had a client and friend whose Rottweiler was so playful and gentle that it completely changed my mind about vicious dogs till I got the call that out of nowhere, the dog, in one bite, almost took her eye out and after several reconstructive surgeries still looks a mess. This is the danger if you're not the Dog Whisperer, you NEVER know when the switch will be pulled by something you'd never expect it to and it's all over but the multiple surgeries trying to put you back together.

    When they take our guns, you probably wont be able to afford to or even find one for sale. I know I'm not interested in a "pet" that needs constant psychological nurturing to keep it from becoming a monster.

  12. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
    So then you're saying it's just a coincidence that Pit Bulls are the subject of consistent news reports and law suits about Pit Bull attacks and the death and carnage they do while going nuts on people and other dogs and no other breed but a close second Rottweilers? Is it just their strong bite that causes them to grab the neck of their prey and shake them till their death similar to a alligator's death strategy?

    Buy the way I had a client and friend whose Rottweiler was so playful and gentle that it completely changed my mind about vicious dogs till I got the call that out of nowhere, the dog, in one bite, almost took her eye out and after several reconstructive surgeries still looks a mess. This is the danger if you're not the Dog Whisperer, you NEVER know when the switch will be pulled by something you'd never expect it to and it's all over but the multiple surgeries trying to put you back together.

    When they take our guns, you probably wont be able to afford to or even find one for sale. I know I'm not interested in a "pet" that needs constant psychological nurturing to keep it from becoming a monster.
    Then quite frankly I don't think you need a dog at all. All dogs need constant nurturing because of the pack mentality that they all have. A lone dog just like a lone wolf is one of the worst animals you can come across. Even your beloved golden retriever if not nurtured or cared for can turn into a vicious unprovoked attacker. I had a retriever try to take my arm off just this weekend and had he not been chained up you would have seen me in the news for shooting a dog at least 5-6 times or until it stopped twitching. My dog nipped at a stranger this weekend and even though it wasn't all his fault I thought long and hard about getting rid of him. The point of all this is any dog can do this I have been harassed by everything from a chow to a min pin to a cocker. All dogs have the capability after all they are an animal and can never be completely tamed.

    On a second note you admitted that you watch court tv shows all day. So there is absolutely no chance that your views can be skewed in no way whatsoever? Please say they are not so I can Do you honestly think that the news or some lawyer claiming to be a judge on TV is going to do some big spiel about the neighbors labracrapdoodle attacking a neighbor kid? Hell no because there will be almost no ratings to that show and all the elitists that pay several thousands of dollars for dogs like that will sue their pants right off of them. If this weren't a handgun forum I would almost expect you to have an anti gun stance as well.

    Education and training are the first and foremost things that keep people alive and well on this tiny little blue and green dot. Both of my kids have gotten in serious trouble for getting in my PIT BULLS face but you don't see them in the ER for being savagely attacked. Have they been nipped at or scratched sure, but in a playful manner just like any other dog would that is simply how they play. An intelligent animal will always figure things out and figure out how to manipulate you unless you show dominance and that you are the pack leader from the get go. My dog will listen to me on most occasions but he is still a pup. But if he is hungry he brings me his food bowl if he is thirsty he brings me his water bowl. Both are almost completely identical yet he can differentiate between the two even when empty. He knows that when he comes in for the night he goes to the kennel because he still chews on things if your not there to watch him, soon I bet I won't even have to close the door on it just because he learns so quickly just like any other dog.

  13. #112
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    I partially agree with you; all but expert training and nurturing are paramount to owning a dog bread to be capable of being extremely vicious which you can watch on city streets almost daily. You seem to think that the issue is that there is a conspiracy against the loving sweet gently Pit Bull and like blacks, only the bad news is broadcast; not true in either case case, blacks commit more crime per capita and Pit Bulls destroy more lives than any other breed, they are bread to be that way. Use the conspiracy theory all you want, the facts are in the actual numbers.

    Ask yourself this: when you go to buy a dog and at each end of the personality scope there is a Pit Bull that can eat your child for lunch and a Golden Retriever that wouldn't injure a rodent; why do people pick Pit Bulls and who are they and where do they typically live? Enough with the political correctness requiring blinders so the obvious is impossible to see.

    And buy the way dogs are great companions and a balanced personality dog packs up well with the owner and poses no danger to others with minimal training.

  14. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
    Ask yourself this: when you go to buy a dog and at each end of the personality scope there is a Pit Bull that can eat your child for lunch and a Golden Retriever that wouldn't injure a rodent; why do people pick Pit Bulls and who are they and where do they typically live? Enough with the political correctness requiring blinders so the obvious is impossible to see
    Did you miss or just blatantly ignore that a golden retriever tried to take my arm off this weekend? I myself and most people I know that own pit bulls live out in the boon docks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
    the facts are in the actual numbers.
    Yes you should go back and look at the facts and numbers listed in plain black and white earlier in this thread that prove you wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
    why do people pick Pit Bulls and who are they and where do they typically live?
    I pick a Pit Bull because of its pure undying loyalty to those that nurture and care for them, I am a good all american man born and bred and raised on a farm not in some suburb as "your numbers" seem to portray. I also chose a Pit Bull because no matter the obstacle a pit bull when raised properly and in a good environment will protect you with it's life and never have a second thought about it. Pit bulls are one owner dogs period. Once they have imprinted on a particular family or pack that is their pack for life no matter what because of it's undying loyalty. This is true with a lot of large breed dogs and why you see so many behavior issues with second and third owner dogs.

    As far as your bigotry I will ignore that because this thread is too good to be locked.

  15. #114
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    ...and you completely ignored my statement that if raised properly, almost with expert skills, they can be a good pet. As far as any claim of fact in a gun forum thread I dismiss that as someones opinion and as you prove, a Pit Bull owners opinion is perverted to the utmost ridiculousness especially when they claim Golden Retrievers are vicious animals and Pit Bulls aren't.

    I'm guessing you're a liberal and void of factual information and reject all presented to you. So I'll end my participation in this thread as it cant go anywhere containing reality.

    Ta, ta....

  16. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
    ...and you completely ignored my statement that if raised properly, almost with expert skills, they can be a good pet. As far as any claim of fact in a gun forum thread I dismiss that as someones opinion and as you prove, a Pit Bull owners opinion is perverted to the utmost ridiculousness especially when they claim Golden Retrievers are vicious animals and Pit Bulls aren't.

    I'm guessing you're a liberal and void of factual information and reject all presented to you. So I'll end my participation in this thread as it cant go anywhere containing reality.

    Ta, ta....
    My claim was simply that any dog can be vicious and that golden retrievers have the ability to be just as vicious as any other dog. The facts that you call opinions from early in the thread were direct from scientific research but if you prefer to ignore that is fine. At any rate the simple fact I was trying to get across is dogs like people are not predisposed to anything it is the environment and education that they grow up with. As to your liberal statement my guess is your looking in the mirror as like I stated above you ignore scientific research as fact, maybe because you did not care to read the entire thread and didn't realize that it was there or you are blatantly ignoring the ATTS tests showing that:
    Quote Originally Posted by American Temperament Testing Society
    AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER 772 664 108 86.0%
    first number being amount tested, second amount passed, third amount failed, and percentage of passed. Just food for thought by the way:
    Quote Originally Posted by American Temperament Testing Society
    GOLDEN RETRIEVER 746 631 115 84.6%
    and so that my post is not taking up an entire page here is the link to the test

  17. #116
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    I'm not even reading your post but you know what's the scariest thing abut this thread and what makes Pit Bulls so very dangerous?? The denial attitude of Pit Bull owners demonstrated here..and you know whats funny (pathetic)? what's being said here in defense of Pit Bulls is just about word for word what every defendant says in court. "Not y baby, he's not vicious" and the Judge looks at them as though they lost half their brains to be in such deep denial.

    I'm unsubscribing so don't waste your breath.

  18. #117
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    I blame the owner more than the breed.Dog owners
    should always expect the unexpected.Before that 2 year old gets too close.
    Before the mailman comes into the yard.Dogs do have a tendacy to protect
    their owners.I had a cousin that had a little chaquaqua.Dern thing bit me
    every time I came over to his house.I threatened to kill the little $h#@
    each time.Dogs also don't like strangers getting too close in their face.
    Grabbing them or startling them is not too popular either.Once again,the owner should
    expect something and interviene.Bottom line, it is the owner,not the dogs fault for
    unexpected injury.My opinion.

  19. #118
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    The Top 10 Most Dangerious Dogs... AND NUMBER ONE IS...GUESS

    Yes the obvious is absolutely true (at the bottom of the post), Pit Bulls are in fact THE MOST DANGERIOS DOGS. Though the American Temperament Testing Society disagrees, if you read how their test works it is conducted in as little as 8 minutes in a controlled environment on dogs brought to them by their owners; talk about adverse selection for the purpose of posting information masquerading as scientifically factual. What a scam.

    Look for yourself: Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | Pets Do But lets not let facts get in the way of defending the family pet... You know when people post a poll asking for peoples opinions, it shouldn't be used to identify people who don't agree and need beat up till they conform to the opinion however misinformed it might be of a select group. Polls aren't supposed to be bear traps.

    Sorry for coming back but I told a friend last night that someone on a forum is trying to say Golden Retrievers are more dangerous than Pit Bulls. We laughed and laughed then I couldn't help but dig up some real information.

    Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds
    All dogs can be potentially dangerous, however some dogs are more dangerous than others. Various types of breeds can be considerably stronger and larger than a person of average size. Training, socialization and proper care can make a significant impact, however some dogs are by years of breeding more aggressive. After in depth research and analyzing the studies performed by the American Veterinary Medical Association, the CDC, and the Humane Society of the United States, we have compiled the top ten most dangerous dog breeds. By: admin Posted: October 15, 2007 10. Dalmatian



    Dalmatians are very protective dogs and can be aggressive towards humans. They are very active and need lots of exercise. They have very sensitive natures and an excellent memory. This bred is famed for their intelligence, indepedence, and survival instincts.

    Weight: 40-70 lbs.
    Origin: Yugoslavia

    9. Boxer



    Unlike their name suggest, these dogs are not typically aggressive by nature. They are bright, energetic and playful breed. Boxers have been known to be "headstrong", which makes it a bit difficult to train them but with positive reinforcement techniques, Boxers often respond much better.

    Weight: 50-70 lbs.
    Origin: Germany

    8. Presa Canario



    Originally bred to guard and fight with cattle, an attack by this dog has been described as hopeless for the victim. They are a guardian breed with man-stopping ability, incredible power and a complete lack of fear.

    Weight: 80-115 lbs.
    Origin: Canary Islands

    7. Chow Chow



    These dogs can be aggressive if poorly bred. The Chow Chow may appear to be independent and aloof for much of the day but needs constant reinforcement.

    Weight: 50-70 lbs.
    Origin: China

    6. Doberman Pinschers



    Dobermans are great guard dogs for their alertness, intelligence and loyalty. They can be agressive dogs when provoked. The typical pet Doberman attacks only if it believes that it, its property, or its family are in danger.

    Weight: 65-90 lbs.
    Origin: Germany

    5. Alaskan Malamutes



    These dogs are very energetic and active. If they are bored, they can become destructive. That's why this dog needs lots of exercise to be happy.

    Weight: 75-100 lbs.
    Origin: Nordic

    4. Huskies



    Very energetic and intelligent dogs. Not considered a good guard dog because of its personality characteristics and gentle temperament. A 2000 study of dog bites resulting in human fatalities in the U.S. found fifteen such fatalities (6% of the total) were caused by "husky-type" dogs between 1979 and 1997.

    Weight: 44-66 lbs.
    Origin: Alaska

    3. German Shepherds



    These dogs are intelligent and very alert. They are highly used by local authorities such as the police K-9 unit. German shepherds are known to be fearless and confident dogs.

    Weight: 70-100 lbs.
    Origin: Germany

    2. Rottweilers



    Rottweilers are known to be very aggressive dogs because of their keen territorial instincts. That's why they make great guard dogs.

    Weight: 100-130 lbs.
    Origin: Germany

    1. Pit Bulls



    A pit bull is a fearless dog that will take on any opponent. They will lock their jaws onto the prey until it's dead. Pit bulls have a reputation of mauling people to death and they are highly sought for dog fighting.

    Weight: 55-65 lbs.
    Origin: United States

    Dogs most often make wonderful pets, however in certain circumstances, any type of dog can be dangerous. Even friendly dogs, can inflict great harm in the wrong circumstance.

  20. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp View Post

    1. Pit Bulls



    A pit bull is a fearless dog that will take on any opponent. They will lock their jaws onto the prey until it's dead. Pit bulls have a reputation of mauling people to death and they are highly sought for dog fighting.

    Weight: 55-65 lbs.
    Origin: United States

    Dogs most often make wonderful pets, however in certain circumstances, any type of dog can be dangerous. Even friendly dogs, can inflict great harm in the wrong circumstance.
    I am glad that you came back, I am glad you did research and I am glad that you have decided to show this all in a respectful manner as I will you. However their information on the pit bull is flawed and therefore I am not sure where they pulled it from. The pit bull is not physically capable of locking it's jaw, it is a myth accepted as fact.

    Also I said that Golden Retrievers CAN be just as vicious as a pit bull. I dare you to get between any nursing bitch or queen and man handle her pups. Act aggressively towards a kid or come on someones property that has a female dog and you might not come back from it. That being said the one that came after me had no provocation whatsoever that I know of, there are a lot of things that people don't see as an aggressive gesture that animals do. Also I watched something interesting last night that aggressive behavior is based entirely in genetics and can be bred out in 3 generations no matter how aggressive the bloodline started. Also, with this they took a non aggressive pup and put it with an aggressive mother and it remained gentle. Then they took an aggressive pup and put it with a gentle pack and it was less inclined to aggressive behavior but was still sketchy. That being said it very much has the capability of contradicting what I feel about my own personal pet as well as the breed. Another big however though is that I know my dog's bloodline to an extent and none have shown aggression so far. I worded it open ended because I can not guarantee what will happen tomorrow or the next day for any animal or person for that matter.

  21. #120
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    snowman you're spreading BS is over OK? Pay close attention to my post which states how your irresponsible source came up with such incredibly flawed information and let me quote the source of the information I just posted (you can read it in the post if you're not so hell bent on proving that the most dangerous dog on earth is docile. Here it is "All dogs can be potentially dangerous, however some dogs are more dangerous than others. Various types of breeds can be considerably stronger and larger than a person of average size. Training, socialization and proper care can make a significant impact, however some dogs are by years of breeding more aggressive. After in depth research and analyzing the studies performed by the American Veterinary Medical Association, the CDC, and the Humane Society of the United States, we have compiled the top ten most dangerous dog breeds. By: admin Posted: October 15, 2007 10. Dalmatian"

    Save what's left of your dignity; you're done dude, you're making a fool of yourself. Pray for your children that they don't get mauled someday since NO Pit Bull can be trusted 100%.

    I'm leaving again because you're talking crazy and refuse to accept the truth. Just do a Google search of "Most Dangerous Dogs" and you'll see Pit Bull in every top ten (No. 1 position). There is obviously nothing that could change your mind but to come home someday and find your child having been made lunch by your dog. And buy the way, Ohio DOES have the law requiring Pit Bull owners to have an Umbrella Liability Policy to cover the likely carnage of their Pit Bull. Oh and I didn't see Golden Retriever in that top 10 list. LMAO.....you've got to be kidding me.

    Here's a copy of the email I sent to the fools at that site you refer to for posting such lies about dogs; they ought to be sued along with some Pit Bull owner for being so misguided posting such terribly wrong information.

    To: 'info@atts.org'

    Dear Sirs,

    I came upon a person on an Internet forum who quotes statistics from your sites “Breed Statistics” making the argument that Golden Retrievers are as dangerous as Pit Bulls (which certainly implies the reverse that Pit Bulls are as docile as Golden Retrievers). Your test appears to be so flawed that it is actually irresponsible to post the results. If you Google “Most Dangerous Dogs” you will find the results of many reputable, leading dog organizations that have information that makes yours look foolish irresponsible dribble. I encourage you to stop posting such incorrect information so people don’t get a breed of dog based on any of your worthless statistics and have one of their children eaten alive or a neighborhood child.

    Please check out this of many sites that say what can’t be more obvious if you watch court TV programs and see a constant supply of law suits resulting from the brutal mauling of family pets, adults and little children by Pit Bulls that you claim are as docile as Golden Retrievers. Shame on you.

    Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | Pets Do

    PS I’m not saying this because I’m a Golden Retriever owner but because I’m a resident of e neighborhood with a little 6 year old child who barely has a face left after what you call a stellar pet almost successfully killed her.

  22. #121
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    And I quote from the American humane society: there is no evidence to support a pit bull can lock its jaw. However your third party surely unbiased author quoted exactly the opposite from the same source... see what I mean about your information being flawed? And to think I would let my children alone with any animal outside of my observation is foolish. Also you misquoted me once again in saying that I said All Goldens are as dangerous as an American Pit Bull. I said that any dog including a Golden can be just as dangerous as a Pit Bull. And if the scar on my son's head is in fact from a breed that simply wouldn't harm a person THEN YOU CAN EXPLAIN TO HIM WHY AT THE AGE OF FOUR HE GOT TO HAVE HIS FACE BITTEN AND COVERED IN BLOOD AND NOW LIVES WITH THAT... fortunately he is not carrying a hatred for your socially acceptable breeds because then he might be a backward thinking liberal that can't even see the evidence on his own face.

    You are living under the assumption any animal is safe and for that I feel sorry for you good day to you sir.

  23. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman46919 View Post
    And I quote from the American humane society: there is no evidence to support a pit bull can lock its jaw. However your third party surely unbiased author quoted exactly the opposite from the same source... see what I mean about your information being flawed? And to think I would let my children alone with any animal outside of my observation is foolish. Also you misquoted me once again in saying that I said All Goldens are as dangerous as an American Pit Bull. I said that any dog including a Golden can be just as dangerous as a Pit Bull. And if the scar on my son's head is in fact from a breed that simply wouldn't harm a person THEN YOU CAN EXPLAIN TO HIM WHY AT THE AGE OF FOUR HE GOT TO HAVE HIS FACE BITTEN AND COVERED IN BLOOD AND NOW LIVES WITH THAT... fortunately he is not carrying a hatred for your socially acceptable breeds because then he might be a backward thinking liberal that can't even see the evidence on his own face.

    You are living under the assumption any animal is safe and for that I feel sorry for you good day to you sir.
    A pit bull is a fearless dog that will take on any opponent. They will lock their jaws onto the prey until it's dead. Pit bulls have a reputation of mauling people to death and they are highly sought for dog fighting.
    That information comes from the conclusion of a study done by the American Veterinary Medical Association, the CDC, and the Humane Society of the United States

    snowman I can believe you continue to argue this when you are so dead in the water your carcass has rotted to nothing. You're done snoman but for the lies in your own head.

  24. #123
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    Email exchange with ATTS

    American Temperament Testing Society replied and I again replied all included here in full. Notice ATTS essentially says their findings aren't statistically valuable in his first sentence. Remember emails are from top to bottom in reverse order as they are sent back and forth; last communication/reply on top.

    Well Tom the more I look at information you suggested the more I find your study results irresponsible and worthless. Keep in mind that your results put Pit Bulls and Golden Retrievers on a par as far as danger is concerned and, you yourself Google “federal dog bite statistics” and read the results from many National sites. Not one list will include Golden Retrievers, which your study says is just as dangerous/safe as a Pit Bull which ranks most dangerous in the National Statistics, and not by a slim margin, the difference between one and two is HUGE. You make a lot of excuses for aggressiveness while National Statistics covers every day life and what you can expect and frankly if you don’t agree with that, you ought to get out of the business of stating dog temperament. Having done it since 1977 tells me that in 33 years you still haven’t figured out your criteria is seriously flawed. 8 minutes with a dog does not constitute a study anymore than 8 minutes with a mentally disturbed person produces a conclusion. I think your organization has blinders on that you cant see therefore you believe in your data that is proven wrong by any other collective behavior records.

    I agree with your statement of owner influence and the dog is not responsible but you leave out that Pit Bulls can easily become killers while Golden Retrievers, for example are not at all likely to be killers. In other words to parallel your statement; nitroglycerine is as safe as a glass of water, it depends on what you do with it that makes nitroglycerine explode; the nitroglycerine can not be responsible for exploding. See you say in your reply that all dogs will bite and yes that is true but lets define bite; a bite is anywhere from a nip to a killing yet you make no distinction. You force me to ask what organization are you satisfying a need for false information for profit?

    Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to June 25, 2010 - By Clifton Merritt - DogsBite.org

    I hope this helps you,
    Xxxx

    PS Notice the actual bite numbers for Huskies in the collected bit information of actual dog behavior results. While you’re at it, see if you can find 1 Golden Retriever “Bodily Harm” incident verses 1654 Pitt Bull incidents. How can you possibly defend your study results that say the two breeds have equally temperament?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Thomas Szebenyi [mailto:t.szebenyi@wildblue.net]
    Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:32 AM
    To: Xxxx Xxxxx'
    Subject: RE: Your breed statistics

    Hi Xxxx,

    Our site contains raw data, with no statistical significance. We have been doing these test since 1977 and all evaluators go through a lengthy apprenticeship. If you look at our data – the average passing rate for all dogs is about 80% and I would not give any significance for passing rates between 75-85%. People read into the data what they wish. Please look at our site.

    In many cases dog bites are not properly investigated. The only information on the web that I trust is the State health departments dog bite statistics and the Federal dog bite statistics. Everybody has an ax to grind especially PETA. Any dog will bite (I would add humans too) if cornered and have nowhere to escape. No child should be left alone with a dog, unless properly educated – age? A provoked aggression against a human is not the dogs fault but the owners who let it happen. An animal will react to pain – not think. Thus a child falling over a sleeping dog might get bit because the dog will react to an attack. The circumstances of a bite is very important. Even after passing our test a dog can develop a tumor, hormone imbalance and other medical problems that might turn it human aggressive. Any test gives results on that day, state of dog, state of human and other factors influencing the dog. AS the AKC puts it - Responsible dog ownership – the owner is responsible for the dog – the dog cannot be responsible for itself.

    I just looked at the site and I do not believe what it says. I own Siberian Huskies and they are not human aggressive. They have to live in igloos with humans and other dogs. The site does not give any links to these studies.

    Hope this helps.

    Tom

    Thomas Szebenyi
    ATTS Chief Tester
    Newfield, NY
    USA
    E-mail: t.szebenyi@computer.org
    Web: ATTS - American Temperament Test Society, Inc. - Home


    From: Xxxx Xxxxx [mailto: Xxxx Xxxxx @hotmail.com]
    Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 3:08 PM
    To: info@atts.org
    Subject: Your breed statistics

    Dear Sirs,

    I came upon a person on an Internet forum who quotes statistics from your sites “Breed Statistics” making the argument that Golden Retrievers are as dangerous as Pit Bulls (which certainly implies the reverse that Pit Bulls are as docile as Golden Retrievers). Your test appears to be so flawed that it is actually irresponsible to post the results. If you Google “Most Dangerous Dogs” you will find the results of many reputable, leading dog organizations that have information that makes yours look foolish irresponsible dribble. I encourage you to stop posting such incorrect information so people don’t get a breed of dog based on any of your worthless statistics and have one of their children eaten alive or a neighborhood child.

    Please check out this of many sites that say what can’t be more obvious if you watch court TV programs and see a constant supply of law suits resulting from the brutal mauling of family pets, adults and little children by Pit Bulls that you claim are as docile as Golden Retrievers. Shame on you.

    Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | Pets Do


    Xxxx Xxxxx

    PS I’m not saying this because I’m a Golden Retriever owner but because I’m a resident of e neighborhood with a little 6 year old child who barely has a face left after what you call a stellar pet almost successfully killed her.

  25. #124
    Swamp is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry snowman but as I admitted I hadn't read many of your posts in their entirety, I sat down and the browser window was still sitting on this thread and even though I think the point is undeniably made (even to you) I read your last few posts and cant help but comment.

    In post #113 you say your arm almost got ripped off by a Golden Retriever to support the ridiculously incorrect temperament statistics of your favorite "Pit Bulls are precious misunderstood animals" site. Then as the pressure increases that your position is seriously flawed at best, you suddenly remember in your post #121 that your son's face is all but bitten off mentally scaring him for life by a Golden Retriever.

    Maybe it's just me but if I was muled by a Pit Bull and even on a separate occasion my young son was also mauled by a Pit Bull and scared for life, I'd put both of those events in the same post to make my point; not escalate the story 8 posts later. I'd say your family is either the unluckiest people in all of mankind; have a neighbor with a rabid Golden Retriever that you and your son taunted till it attacked (not even likely for a rabid Golden but I'll give some latitude here); or you're making up stories here thinking you're going to convince me and I'm stupid; I'm betting the last is true.

    In conclusion to your creative writing; I wouldn't say it's impossible but I seriously doubt you could abuse a Golden such that it would maul someone as seems to happen to you and your family regularly. Golden Retrievers typically flee abusers; and I say typically only because you might find one or two in the world that would.

    Rest assured now that I have posted my last information. Again sorry but I just couldn't resist pointing out your creative, escalating writing skills.

  26. #125
    snowman46919's Avatar
    snowman46919 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp View Post
    In post #113 you say your arm almost got ripped off by a Golden Retriever to support the ridiculously incorrect temperament statistics of your favorite "Pit Bulls are precious misunderstood animals" site. Then as the pressure increases that your position is seriously flawed at best, you suddenly remember in your post #121 that your son's face is all but bitten off mentally scaring him for life by a Golden Retriever.

    Maybe it's just me but if I was muled by a Pit Bull and even on a separate occasion my young son was also mauled by a Pit Bull and scared for life, I'd put both of those events in the same post to make my point; not escalate the story 8 posts later. I'd say your family is either the unluckiest people in all of mankind; have a neighbor with a rabid Golden Retriever that you and your son taunted till it attacked (not even likely for a rabid Golden but I'll give some latitude here); or you're making up stories here thinking you're going to convince me and I'm stupid; I'm betting the last is true.

    In conclusion to your creative writing; I wouldn't say it's impossible but I seriously doubt you could abuse a Golden such that it would maul someone as seems to happen to you and your family regularly. Golden Retrievers typically flee abusers; and I say typically only because you might find one or two in the world that would.

    Rest assured now that I have posted my last information. Again sorry but I just couldn't resist pointing out your creative, escalating writing skills.
    In regards to what I posted actually it was two different dogs. The one that went after my son was owned by sub standard people who never should have had a dog in the first place the one that went after me was at a family members house and I was on his property and smelled of another dog is the best reason I can provide for it. I did not provoke him in any manner. I am sorry if both of these things did not occur to me at the same time.

    As for your article in which they site these sources:

    The American Veterinary Medical Association opposes pit bull bans, or any other breed-specific regulation, saying that more than 25 breeds have been involved in fatal attacks on people. Rather, the association recommends enforcement of leash and anti-dogfighting laws, mandatory neutering (which minimizes sexual/territorial aggression and roaming) and instruction in responsible pet care in schools.

    I already posted that the American Humane Society clearly states that pit bulls can not lock their jaws however thats what your author posted in their article. The CDC also states that their statistics are based on "Pit Bull Type Dogs." In a line up of 25 "Pit Bull Type Dogs" most people can't pick American Pit Bull Terrier out of the line up. I bet I could find several more breeds that someone could mistake for a Pit Bull. The past two vet appointments for puppy shots everyone was just in love with my chocolate lab, and I only own one dog.

    I don't care to go around telling people about every bad experience I have with a dog because I simply do not base bad experiences on breeds but on dogs. If I must I will post pictures of my sons face to prove to you that happened or at best the medical records because they insisted on taking pictures of something I thought was a moot point. If the AVMA and HMSA thought that pit bulls were so incredibly dangerous why do they expend such time and effort defending the breed specific legislation and pit bull bans? The CDC already admits that their statistics may be flawed, and there are I don't know how many statistics out there on the misidentification of breeds. At best currently without any type of blood testing done only 25% of all canines in America can be identified on physical appearance alone. That being said there is an immeasurable amount of mix breeds out there that simply don't need much pit bull genetics to get the physical appearance of a pit bull.

    Here is a short list of the people that don't support the breed specific legislation that you seem to be close to promoting:
    American Dog Owners Association (ADOA)

    American Humane

    American Kennel Club (AKC)

    American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA)

    American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA)

    American Working Dog Federation (AWDF)

    Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT)

    Best Friends Animal Society

    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

    Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)

    International Assocation of Animal Behavior Consultants (IAABC)

    International Association of Canine Professionals (IACP)

    National Animal Control Association (NACA)

    National Animal Interest Alliance (NAIA)

    National Association of Dog Obedience Instructors (NADOI)

    And since they are such a dangerous dog I am glad they don't use them as therapy dogs in nursing homes and hospitals... Oh wait that would be here. I really wouldn't want such a dangerous type of dog that rips people to shreds with nothing but blood on their mind to help rescue bleeding injured victims wait that would be right here.

    And by the way you once again misquoted and misread saying that my son was mentally scarred when he simply wasn't he loves dogs, all dogs no matter their breed. If I said that he was I misspoke and I apologize. Another huge point that needs to be made here is that my dog and the original poster's dogs are all American Pit Bull Terrier to be completely politically correct. The term pit bull in most professional circles relates to about 20 breeds of dogs.

    Some other foods for thought:
    Quote Originally Posted by National Canine Research Foundation
    No breed or type of dog has a particular method of attack or inflicts an exclusive type of injury. Claims that one breed of dog inflicts injuries unlike other breeds have no merit.
    And for a closing chuckle, the dachshund and retriever is also on the list of animals that have caused fatalities from attacking people.

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