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  1. #21
    dondavis3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolandrock View Post
    I know nothing about this animosity of which you speak.
    i know the debate but I have never seen any animosity. Or at least, no more that the usual that goes on over which bullet is best (Federal HST), which gun is best (1911), or which knife is best (benchmade)

    I CCW. If you want to open carry, I think it's great. You'll either scare them off or make them come at you first. It's win / win for me.
    I agree


  2. #22
    Steveboos is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Actually retention holsters are one of the main reasons that the number of officers killed or assaulted with their own weapons is down. Anything you can do to that protects against a gun grab is a good thing but with increased retention comes increased training.


    Well considering there were no laws, rules, regulations or records kept for about 250 of that 300 years this should not be considered in the scheme of things either. I honestly don't know when the first CCW's were issued or when OC was first regulated but I can assure you a lot more folks were OC'ing in the 1800's and early 1900's than there are today.



    If you look like a victim you will become a victim. Your demeanor, attitude and situational awareness is what will make you an undesirable target not the fact that you are armed or not.
    We are not speaking about LEO's, we are talking about citizens. Retention holsters are great if you like extra levels of security, but no reason to get Level 2 or Level 3 duty holsters when you OC. A simple Level one or just a snap enclosure is fine.

    And also when the laws were not regulated, everyone had guns and could protect themselves. No one relied on the late response of Police to help them.

    I Agree VERY much with your last statement. But not looking like a victim goes hand in hand with being aware of your surroundings.

  3. #23
    Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveboos View Post
    We are not speaking about LEO's, we are talking about citizens. Retention holsters are great if you like extra levels of security, but no reason to get Level 2 or Level 3 duty holsters when you OC. A simple Level one or just a snap enclosure is fine.

    And also when the laws were not regulated, everyone had guns and could protect themselves. No one relied on the late response of Police to help them.

    I Agree VERY much with your last statement. But not looking like a victim goes hand in hand with being aware of your surroundings.
    Please explain the differences in need for retention from LEOs to civilian. As I see it, the BGs do not change. The level of security shouldnt either.

  4. #24
    rolandrock is offline Junior Member
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    I don't have any facts or figures. I was thinking of myself. If I was a wrong doer bent on doing wrong and I walked into someplace where someone was OCing, I would either look elsewhere or go at the guy with the gun first.

    To me it would seem idiotic to make any other choice but then, I really don't posess a finely tuned criminal mind.

  5. #25
    Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolandrock View Post
    I don't have any facts or figures. I was thinking of myself. If I was a wrong doer bent on doing wrong and I walked into someplace where someone was OCing, I would either look elsewhere or go at the guy with the gun first.

    To me it would seem idiotic to make any other choice but then, I really don't posess a finely tuned criminal mind.
    You are right. You have at least thought about it. Not all BGs are scared of the gun on someones hip. That could make you the first target. If they are willing to take out security at a bank, and shoot at cops, a civilian with a gun really doesnt seem to intimidating.

  6. #26
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    Re: OC'ing vs CC'ing: The on-going battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You are right. You have at least thought about it. Not all BGs are scared of the gun on someones hip. That could make you the first target. If they are willing to take out security at a bank, and shoot at cops, a civilian with a gun really doesnt seem to intimidating.
    Keep in mind, many carry OC with little to know notice taken by people around them. Nor because it is ao common, but because it just, isn't, noticed.
    I myself had an experience with this here in NY state. Sitting near a couple in a restaurant, the guy got up and walked past me a number of times. Wasn't until the 3rd or 4th time i noticed his holster, and i usually LOOK for firearms.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by niadhf View Post
    Keep in mind, many carry OC with little to know notice taken by people around them. Nor because it is ao common, but because it just, isn't, noticed.
    I myself had an experience with this here in NY state. Sitting near a couple in a restaurant, the guy got up and walked past me a number of times. Wasn't until the 3rd or 4th time i noticed his holster, and i usually LOOK for firearms.
    You live in a rural area of New York state. In rural areas OC is no big deal. However, In urban areas your statement is a bit flawed. They notice, they call the PD, they are ignorant of the law, they are the general public. It is much different in urban Environments.

  8. #28
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    +1 Harryball

    Believe me in town .... they notice and are startled.


  9. #29
    rolandrock is offline Junior Member
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    The other thing that would stop me from OC is that it's like walking around with a big fat Rolex on your wrist. Small, worth good money, easy sell...that's a problem waiting to happen.

    Even the really committed can't keep up that level of situational awareness ALL the time. You WILL get slack and let your guard down sooner or later. You just will. If you force yourself to be that aware all the time, you're going to give yourself PTSD level stress. Maybe out in the sticks you'll be fine but, in an urban environment...you just can't go about your daily life with a 10' perimiter. You gonna push your shopping cart facing backwards so no one gets behind you?

  10. #30
    niadhf's Avatar
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    OC'ing vs CC'ing: The on-going battle

    Reposted with quote.

  11. #31
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    OC'ing vs CC'ing: The on-going battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You live in a rural area of New York state. In rural areas OC is no big deal. However, In urban areas your statement is a bit flawed. They notice, they call the PD, they are ignorant of the law, they are the general public. It is much different in urban Environments.
    My "rural area" is not so rural that WHEN NOTICED a panic runaway call would not be made. And the area I was talking about is the county seat.

    My OC experience is in Metro Atlanta.

    Your logic is flawed.

    My point is not "logic" but experience.

    Actions are much the same everywhere, and my EXPERIENCE shows that the vast majority of people don't notice. Some do. Some ask questions, some call the cops. You know, that whole "see something say something" thing.

  12. #32
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You live in a rural area of New York state. In rural areas OC is no big deal. However, In urban areas your statement is a bit flawed. They notice, they call the PD, they are ignorant of the law, they are the general public. It is much different in urban Environments.
    Depends upon the state you live in. Here in Virginia, we don't see what you have written happening. Not that it hasn't but it is very uncommon... as in VERY uncommon.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Depends upon the state you live in. Here in Virginia, we don't see what you have written happening. Not that it hasn't but it is very uncommon... as in VERY uncommon.
    That's the case now, it wasn't always so.

  14. #34
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    One hundred people could walk by you and never notice a thing, then that one person comes by and calls the police.

    Twenty seven street thugs may see you gun and think twice about doing something or avoid you like the plague, then that one guy who is not intimidated, scared, worried decides he wants that thing on your belt.

    There could be an OC convention at an amusement park and no one would care, then that one guy walks into McDonald's to make a statement.

    I, we, you are have to realize that no matter how we carry all it takes in that "one" person that did not read the statistics, get the memo, wants to show everyone he can, make a statement about gun rights to effect everyone. No matter how responsible "we" are "we" will all be judged by the lowest common denominator.

  15. #35
    Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niadhf View Post
    My "rural area" is not so rural that WHEN NOTICED a panic runaway call would not be made. And the area I was talking about is the county seat.

    My OC experience is in Metro Atlanta.

    Your logic is flawed.

    My point is not "logic" but experience.

    Actions are much the same everywhere, and my EXPERIENCE shows that the vast majority of people don't notice. Some do. Some ask questions, some call the cops. You know, that whole "see something say something" thing.
    You say my logic is flawed, How so? You say you have experience in Atlanta, anywhere else?? When was the last time you OCed???

    My logic is based only in experience. MI is an OC state. I have been thrown to the ground and shotguns pointed at my head, how bout you? You say people do not notice, I call Horse crap on that, not only do they notice, but they call the police and make a MWAG call. Actions are not the same everywhere. It is different throughout the country. What is good in montana, is not good in michigan.

  16. #36
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    OC'ing vs CC'ing: The on-going battle

    Call horse rap all you want. I have sat down to eat next to LEO who have nodded and said naught, and stood by nosy citizen who called LEO.
    I saying your logic is flawed based on the same thing you call mine flawed by.
    And frankly, Tacman said very well what I mean.

    Sorry your experiences have sucked. That said, why would you (or anyone who believes in our 2A rights) turn on our carry brethren because they carry different. That is the point of this thread as I read it. Or is it still just "do as I do or you are wrong"?

  17. #37
    Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niadhf View Post
    Call horse rap all you want. I have sat down to eat next to LEO who have nodded and said naught, and stood by nosy citizen who called LEO.
    I saying your logic is flawed based on the same thing you call mine flawed by.
    And frankly, Tacman said very well what I mean.

    Sorry your experiences have sucked. That said, why would you (or anyone who believes in our 2A rights) turn on our carry brethren because they carry different. That is the point of this thread as I read it. Or is it still just "do as I do or you are wrong"?
    So you are doing exactly what you are saying others to. Tick for a tack. Or am I flawed on that as well?? As I see it, if you carry responsible, what ever way you carry is fine with me. I have no beef with anyone who carries a weapon for protection. I am not turning on anyone, you know as well as I that there are people out there making all of us look like idiots. Those are the people I have an issue with, and will continue to have an issue with. Either do it right, or do not do it. Some of the people out there making a political statement with there hi-point in there unkle mikes should not be carrying guns. That is might point. They do not help anyone's cause. It is, what it is....

  18. #38
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    I say, carry as you please, but, come up to my state and try it, even though it's been legal forever.............someone will call LE 5 minutes after your out the door.....I don't say it's right, because it's not, but it's the way it is, up here....paranoia runs rampant...........these people need to be educated, but don't care to......too locked in their liberal ways.............If you could identify a lib in trouble, I would walk away and smile............

  19. #39
    niadhf's Avatar
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    OC'ing vs CC'ing: The on-going battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    So you are doing exactly what you are saying others to. Tick for a tack. Or am I flawed on that as well?? As I see it, if you carry responsible, what ever way you carry is fine with me. I have no beef with anyone who carries a weapon for protection. I am not turning on anyone, you know as well as I that there are people out there making all of us look like idiots. Those are the people I have an issue with, and will continue to have an issue with. Either do it right, or do not do it. Some of the people out there making a political statement with there hi-point in there unkle mikes should not be carrying guns. That is might point. They do not help anyone's cause. It is, what it is....
    Actually, I agree with this. I don't CARE how people carry. What gets me is either saying "mine is the only way to carry. Any other is the coward's way" (yep, seen those words).

    My point is exactly what you said. Support responsible carry, whether OC or CC.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by niadhf View Post
    Actually, I agree with this. I don't CARE how people carry. What gets me is either saying "mine is the only way to carry. Any other is the coward's way" (yep, seen those words).

    My point is exactly what you said. Support responsible carry, whether OC or CC.
    Precisely my point in this thread.

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