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  1. #21
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    I feel you rather hastily posted this and didn't think your post out very throughly before posting. I'm sensing alittle sarcasism in your post. I usually don't respond because sometimes I have been known to get angry (especially like now when I havent had much sleep and am in a bad mood). If you weren't being sarcastic then I will apologize. Hence why I said I will have to disagree with you. After all it is my opinion in which I am entitled to. You don't agree that is fine. But, please don't try to talk down to me like I don't know what I am talking about. I may not be the most knowledgable person. But, I have done some research and while my training and stuff might be limited I do have enough to base my opinion. I won't comment on something if I don't have some experience in it. If you don't agree wiht me that is fine tell me why. you might not have meant anything by it but anytime I have ever heard the please enlighten me it was either done to belittle the person who was speaking or because the person was so high up on themselves they couldn't fathom they might be wrong and were hoping that they could just demean the person a bit to where it might discredit anything they have or will say.

    This is why I don't like the internet and stuff. It is hard to tell when someone is being sincere, sarcastic, or a plain ass. When I read it based on how I have always heard it use I pictured a very sarcastic and demeaning tone even though you may have not meant it. What you did hear was almost like what Bulldog said to you in the Nightsighters thread that you took offense to. I was almost tempted to not respond. However, I feel my og post however has merit that alot of people won't take into consideration. Like I said there are always what if's.

    Then there is the whole adrenaline thing kicking in. Adrealine, tunnel vision, muscle tightening up prohibiting fluid movement and making simple movements difficult (which will hender muscle memory). I have heard of someone getting scared or nervous and not being able to work the manual safety on their gun. Heard of one guy that tried to work the safety and hit the magazine release and never knew it. If it would have been more than just a squirrel in the house he woul dhave been screwed.

    please, please, please don't talk to me like I am talking out of my ass. I do have some knowledge. I expressed my opinion. I give my reason on the whole muscle memory and aderaline. What I was trying to say for the average person who won't practice it is easier for them to fiddle with their shirt then draw the weapon. Or just to draw the weapon. but just because it contradicts what you think please don't try to belittle me for stating my opinion. People can and will disagree. But, unfortunately it is post like this that make me hesitant to post on forums much. It is an opinion take it or leave it.

    I am sory for the rant. Last time I heard the enlighten me I was on a paintball forum and a guy asked a question about a gun in which i was very knowledgeable in (even had the person who owned and operated the company comment on this on the same forum). I had a guy that wanted to argue something I knew wouldn't work. And his post was almost similar to yours. Please enlighten me on this since you think you know everything. I am right now I am just starting to get worked up over something petty and probably taken out of context so I will just answer your questions for the sake of staying awake and getting tired of watching the stupid camera monitors.

    I have had a good number of family memembers in the military. I have been shown alittle of what they were taught. I was given alittle instruction from a USMC firearms instructor when he came to visit my cousin for vacation last year (not really anything I hadn't been shown already). Now my wife's family has alot of LEO's. And I am very good friends with alot of the Sheriff's Dept and Police Dept officers. Some because of my jiu-jitsu class and alot from playing men's softball (mostly Sheriff's Dept). I know the majority of the teachers who do the BLET classes. Including the firearms instructor who does the qualifications testing for the officers during the year. I have had the ability to learn from them (and their training varies from schools, to military and whatnot). Currently I am working for a security company that only lets people with military or law enforcement training (which can be varified) to work armed sites. I have talked to the firearms instructor and he agrees I know more than alot of the people they have take the class and am a better shot but I just don't have the varification which IMO is stupid, but what can you do. I'm just from one of those little hicktowns so what I consider a decent amount of training might not be much compared to someone elses. but I do know that I have had more than alot of people have.

    1. I practice whenever I get a chance. As far as live fire. Since my wife and I moved into the city limits I can't fire my gun outside (unless in a self defense situation). I am not even sure if I can shoot a snake in the yard without getting in trouble for discharging a firearm in city limits. I keep forgetting to ask. So now I rely on the indoor range for the most part for my live fire shooting. I can't practice shooting from sitting or laying down at the range. But I still try to go at least once a week. I try to go more when especially if I have a couple of bad days in a row or just need some stress relief. Every so often I will go to my cousin's house and practice stuff in his yard. Such as drawing and firing from a seated position. Drawing, shooting, and reloading lay down (back, side, stomach). I have even take a chair set it on its back and laid down on it with my feet in the air and practice shooting semi upside down (like someone pushed you over and the guy that was behind you is coming up on you).

    As far as the rest I purchased some snap caps and practice in my house. Malfunctions, draw from sitting or laying down. Worked on being in the bed and responding quickly if I hear somehting (which is getting the flashlight, phone and pistol). room clearing (though thankfully with the house layout and the fact it isn't that big it isn't very hard). I practice moving around the house outside just because you never know). I also sit in my truck and practice drawing and stuff from seated with a seatbelt on. I also do other things like practice one hand reloads. Racking the gun off my thigh or boot if for some reason I am hurt or whatever and down to one arm. I do however need to work on my offhand stuff alot more because even with the practice I am still very weak at this. This type of stuff depending on sleep and stuff I do about once a day or ever couple of days.

    2. I don't have the luxury of any kind of competitions. There is one local shooting competition that I have a friend who does. He said overall the competition isnt very good. he only has one eye and has trouble seeing sometimes. Not a very good shot and he usually places pretty high. I have found some more self defense type competitions. but I don't have the time nor means to really travel to compete. Especially on a regular basis.

    3. As for how long I have been shooting. I'm almost 34. My uncle (even though my mom hated it) started me shooting when 3 and 4 with BB Guns. When I was between 5 and 6 years old I started with a .22lr rifle and a .22lr revolver. Started shooting more as I got older. Started carrying when I was 21 (thank God for open carry). Mainly in the car with the gun on the passenger seat (here you can carry in your car if the gun is on the dash or in the seat and not covered up).

    4. I have had my concealed permit for 4 yrs. I have been carrying it longer (if you count around my house and family's house = parent's, grandparent's, aunt and uncle's house). I had to carry concealed there because my mom is terrified of guns. She knew I had my pistol on my but if it was concealed and she couldn't see it then she would forget about it and it didn't bother her.

    5. Played paintball for alittle over 12 years. We even did the little paintball pistols (PGP's) put in holsters. Did the whole dual thing where we paced and everything. Now grant it because paintball are round and sometimes they aren't even perfectly round it still gives you a general idea of what it is like to have to draw from a holster quickly. Alot of people don't realize what it is like to be shot at. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be shot at in real life. But, paintball was enough to make you think. Adrenaline rush, tunnel vision, muscles tensing up which makes everything from aiming, to running hard to do. You experience it even more when you are the last one left defending a base and there are over 100 guys shooting at you or in your direction.

    5. No military experience. Went to sign up for the Army. Went to MEPS. They were concerned over my weight and that give my a temporary disqualification and told me if I lost the whole 8 pounds I could re-do everything there and I would be GTG. Of course then they looked at the shoulder I had broken. It never healed up right so every so often it would hurt and I would have limited range of motion. I say would but it still does. I even tried to lie and say it wasn't that bad but they said they wouldn't take me. I have toyed with the idea of BLET even though I haven't decided if I really wanted to be in law-enforcement. Though everyone I know loves it for the most part. My brother in law was trying hard to get me to do it. Of course he loves his job. He carries a gun and flies a helicopter for the Highway Patrol.

    Now I have found out that due to my job they will actually help pay for BLET. So I may take it just to take it and then I can put in for a site post that allows me to carry my gun.

    Now you know as well as I do that just because you practice something doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to excute that action when the time comes. You can say muscle memory all you want but even then sometimes that isnt enough. Just remember Murphy's law "Anything that can wrong will go wrong". Which may be from a malfunction, to getting tangled in a shirt, even the possiblity you drop your gun on accident during a situation.

    - I play alot of softball. When we practice we hit over 100 balls at a time. It isn't nothing for you to hit 500-1000 depending on time and if you have enough people to pitch. All that practice come game time you might drop a shoulder, make your stance to wide, swing a tad bit earlier or later, miss hit the ball, catch the ball off the wrong part of the bat. And though you were killing the ball at practice you do bad one game.

    - I did alot of paintball tournaments. Speedball, Airball, woodsball, hyperball. We drilled and drilled and drilled. Who was moving, who would do this and who would do that. Every situation makes things unpredictable. And things never go as planned. That is why you see alot of blown plays offensively and defensively in football.

    But,I said that to say this. I have practiced drawing from concealed (and that is why from experience I can't stand IWB holsters with a shirt tucked in). But I know that something will possibly happen to where I can't quickly or flawlessly execute pulling my shirt up, drawing my weapon, and getting a good sight picture. I know if I can't without practice that alot of people who refuse to put the practice in won't be able to either. But like I said earlier their are alot of what if's that play into a sceanrio that was mentioned earlier.

    It is also MY OPINION that people put too much thought into a snatch and grab on open carry. While yes it is possible, and yes it has happened. With all the places you can open carry I haven't heard many of these snatch and grab stories. And like I said before. Criminals want easy targets/prey. You have a 95% chance that if they know you are willing to defend yourself or you have the means to do it you will avoid being a victim. I mean seriously think about it. You are wanting to rob someone. So you go for the muscular fit guy or do you go after the small petite or an elderly woman. Do you try to attack the guy with the gun if you know he has chance of shooting you dead if you mess up.

    I put my thoughts into both the victim and the attacker. Hence why I feel that open carry isn't as bad as everyone says. I also put my thoughts into which would be easier to draw and fire when adrealine is kicking in. Concealed where you have to move clothing or a straight draw and fire. I am not completely disagreeing with you Steve just some of it. And it has just been off what I have been told, some studying, and some scenarios that have played in my mind. Like you mentioned shooting through your clothes if you become tangled up. I don't agree with that mainly due to inexperienced people shooting themselves or an innocent bystander.

    I can see how some people would consider it a disadvantage as if they would be targetted first if someone knew they had a gun. But then again from what I know about criminals (lazy and cowardly) you run a better chance of not getting attacked because you are carrying open.

    Now what I meant to say before is. I think it should be legal everywhere. you can make arguments for and against it all day long. But at least give people the option do decide.

    NOTE: please ignore any typos, grammar errors, spelling errors. I am dead tired right now and this is the second time I had to type this due to accidently deleting it the first time
    Wow, and I thought Dante's Inferno was a long read.

    One thing, if you carry a gun for defense and you are not confident in it's application, you haven't practiced enough. The bold portion of your post strikes me as a little um... off. I know that something will possibly happen? Not to pick nits here, but that screams of indecisiveness. Either you practice enough to know your capabilities or you shrug it off as "Murphy's Law". Might as well not even carry a gun if you're always expecting Murphy to show up. I mean, why bother... Murphy's just gonna screw you over, regardless of your carry method.

    I train a lot, and by training, I mean professional training. I go to two or three 3-day classes a year and shoot every other week and I can tell you without a doubt that even under stress, your body will do what it is trained to do as long as you've put the appropriate amount of smart training into it. (by smart I mean not just blazing thru ammo like a lot of people do on Youtube and call it training)

    I carry IWB all the time with my shirt untucked over it and have no problems drawing under stress, even while moving off the X. It wasn't always that way, but after years of carrying this way, I can confidently state that Murphy has no room in my training regimen.

  2. #22
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    ...If you weren't being sarcastic then I will apologize...
    I wasn't being sarcastic. It was an honest question about your experience.

    But you don't need to apologize.

  3. #23
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    I prefer concealed carry, but I would like to point out a potential flaw in your scenario:

    Quote Originally Posted by Survivor View Post
    A bad guy decides to visit a certain establishment because of what they have inside. They have it, he needs (wants) it, and he decides he will kill if necessary to take it. He goes there armed and hides his piece under a light jacket or loose shirt. He's inside sizing up his situation, yep they have what he wants and there are only two other people there. The only wrinkle in his plan is the guy openly carrying a gun. He is not dissuaded from his intent, but rather moves to a more tactically advantaged spot in the place. OK, now it's game time...who does he decide to shoot first?
    From a sheer tactical perspective (meaning issues of alarming neighbors/police aside), open carry relies on the assumption that the visible presence of a weapon acts as a deterrent, i.e. the bad guy sees a guy with a gun inside, goes "ohhh s***" and goes elsewhere. Concealed carry relies instead on maintaining the element of surprise as long as possible, at the cost of the sight of a gun potentially acting as a deterrent.

    IMO, it's a psychological guess at what you think your average bad guy is going to do, and there's no right answer tactically. Is he a cowardly mugger looking for easy cash? Is he a druggie willing to do anything for his next high? Is he an experienced shoplifter who knows a fight would be too high profile? Is he a wanna be gangbanger with something to prove? You'll never know for sure.

    I prefer to carry concealed. My reasons for doing so stem almost entirely from living in one of the more liberal cities in my state: I do not wish to start a fuss, nor have a conversation with the cops on any given day, so I choose to carry concealed and leave the general public in the dark to the fact that I am armed.

    KG

  4. #24
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rgrundy View Post
    Like Steve said, if you have a lifestyle and dressstyle for CCW and practice things will go very smoothly when you draw. Usually anything you do 3000 times becomes a natural act like throwing a punch or drawing a weapon. As for being angry, usually the calm ones win competitions and real gunfights so my suggestion is to work towards that goal.
    I don't know. I have seen people who have boxed and kick boxed for several years make a mistake and break their hand. Is it rare. Not as much as people think and considering how often they practice punches and sparring it is something to think about.

    Kind of like swinging a bat. Like I mentioned before I play men's softball. It isn't nothing for us to go and hit 1000-2000 balls a weekend. I work 3rd so I even though I am only 33 I get to "play" (which is really just them practicing with each other). If you have never hit that much it is amazing at even something that is pitched underhand you can miss hit rather easily. Even with taking all those cuts. Now factor in stress and adrenaline and you have a mess.

    I am not saying that concealed carry doesn't work or isn't effective. I am saying that for the average person who goes to the range shoots 100-200 rounds of ammo never drawing from a holster will not be able to successfully complete the steps to draw from concealed the majority of the time. I carry concealed a bunch. I still feel that with all my practicing that there maybe a time that I make a mistake and get tangled up or something. After all I am only human. That is why I keep practicing. But open carry still allows for a faster and cleaner draw under stressful situations.

  5. #25
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    Wow, and I thought Dante's Inferno was a long read.

    One thing, if you carry a gun for defense and you are not confident in it's application, you haven't practiced enough. The bold portion of your post strikes me as a little um... off. I know that something will possibly happen? Not to pick nits here, but that screams of indecisiveness. Either you practice enough to know your capabilities or you shrug it off as "Murphy's Law". Might as well not even carry a gun if you're always expecting Murphy to show up. I mean, why bother... Murphy's just gonna screw you over, regardless of your carry method.

    I train a lot, and by training, I mean professional training. I go to two or three 3-day classes a year and shoot every other week and I can tell you without a doubt that even under stress, your body will do what it is trained to do as long as you've put the appropriate amount of smart training into it. (by smart I mean not just blazing thru ammo like a lot of people do on Youtube and call it training)

    I carry IWB all the time with my shirt untucked over it and have no problems drawing under stress, even while moving off the X. It wasn't always that way, but after years of carrying this way, I can confidently state that Murphy has no room in my training regimen.
    Guess I should have used could instead of will. Like I said it was a bad day and night and I was really, really exhausted.

  6. #26
    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I wasn't being sarcastic. It was an honest question about your experience.

    But you don't need to apologize.
    No, I didn't want to come across as being a douchebag or anything. Like I said it is just hard to tell from reading how a post was meant to be taken. I apologize though.

    Quote Originally Posted by kg333 View Post
    I prefer concealed carry, but I would like to point out a potential flaw in your scenario:

    From a sheer tactical perspective (meaning issues of alarming neighbors/police aside), open carry relies on the assumption that the visible presence of a weapon acts as a deterrent, i.e. the bad guy sees a guy with a gun inside, goes "ohhh s***" and goes elsewhere. Concealed carry relies instead on maintaining the element of surprise as long as possible, at the cost of the sight of a gun potentially acting as a deterrent.

    IMO, it's a psychological guess at what you think your average bad guy is going to do, and there's no right answer tactically. Is he a cowardly mugger looking for easy cash? Is he a druggie willing to do anything for his next high? Is he an experienced shoplifter who knows a fight would be too high profile? Is he a wanna be gangbanger with something to prove? You'll never know for sure.

    I prefer to carry concealed. My reasons for doing so stem almost entirely from living in one of the more liberal cities in my state: I do not wish to start a fuss, nor have a conversation with the cops on any given day, so I choose to carry concealed and leave the general public in the dark to the fact that I am armed.

    KG
    I am not saying open carry all the time. Like I said before for me it is mainly if I move and my gun becomes unconcealed I don't want any trouble getting started. If you are in a place that allows open carry and people know that it is legal I don't think you will get much flack from the police. Your neighbors may be different. Lord knows alot of them like to whine about stupid stuff. We had a neighbor call the police and DSS saying our other neighbor's kid was playing with matches or a lighter unsupervised. Come to find out she had a battery operated candle.

    But, it is just like I said earlier. It all depends on the scenario. I mean could the bad guy be jumpy that any movement and he shoots. Which means you reach for your gun and you get shot. Or could he be one of those guys that you could make the gun shape with your index and thumb hide it under your shirt and say I will shoot and he run off (not likely).

    I would say that 99% any of us run into will be someone who is looking for an easy target that can get what they want and go, and that no one will get hurt. I would also put money on the fact that the guy will be very nervous and even a knife alone will deter him. That seems to be 100% of the stories I hear about and read. Unless it is someone that kills the person and the person that died is unarmed.

  7. #27
    Glock Doctor is offline Banned
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    Personally, unless I'm at a range or on a firing line, I usually don't open carry. (There have been rare exceptions like when I've removed a jacket while sitting inside a stuffy restaurant, or while I'm out of the vehicle pumping gas at a late night station.)

    I'm reminded of Lance Thomas who is, perhaps, the most: celebrated, skillful, and just plain lucky CQB pistol gunfighter in modern times! One of jeweler/gunfighter Thomas' self-defense techniques against sudden attack was to, 'salt' numerous pistols away behind the counter of his jewelry store. During his gunfighting years, Thomas might not have appeared to be armed; but he continued to survive multiple attempts on his life by never being too far away from a hidden, but readily available, pistol.

    LiveLeak.com - Lance Thomas track record; 4 robberies 5 kills

  8. #28
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevard13 View Post
    ...I am not saying that concealed carry doesn't work or isn't effective. I am saying that for the average person who goes to the range shoots 100-200 rounds of ammo never drawing from a holster will not be able to successfully complete the steps to draw from concealed the majority of the time...
    That is, of course, correct.

    I (personally) am neither concerned about, nor care about, a fool who carries a concealed weapon but doesn't practice being effective with it.
    My only concern about such a person is whether or not his imbecility and incompetence will directly affect me or my family. To guard against that, I rely upon my normal watchful awareness of my surroundings, and upon my experience.

    I tend to avoid confrontations, and I also do my best to avoid people who appear to be uncomfortable carrying a concealed weapon.
    Given sufficient experience, both tasks are pretty easily accomplished.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    That is, of course, correct.

    I (personally) am neither concerned about, nor care about, a fool who carries a concealed weapon but doesn't practice being effective with it.
    My only concern about such a person is whether or not his imbecility and incompetence will directly affect me or my family. To guard against that, I rely upon my normal watchful awareness of my surroundings, and upon my experience.

    I tend to avoid confrontations, and I also do my best to avoid people who appear to be uncomfortable carrying a concealed weapon.
    Given sufficient experience, both tasks are pretty easily accomplished.
    Bingo Steve... bingo.

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    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    That is, of course, correct.

    I (personally) am neither concerned about, nor care about, a fool who carries a concealed weapon but doesn't practice being effective with it.
    My only concern about such a person is whether or not his imbecility and incompetence will directly affect me or my family. To guard against that, I rely upon my normal watchful awareness of my surroundings, and upon my experience.

    I tend to avoid confrontations, and I also do my best to avoid people who appear to be uncomfortable carrying a concealed weapon.
    Given sufficient experience, both tasks are pretty easily accomplished.
    I agree whole heartedly. Especially because of the fact I don't want to have to deal with all the legal crap that goes on after a self defense shooting. So I will avoid anything that makes me feel uncomfortable. There have been times my wife and I have pulled into a resturant and I get a bad feeling in my stomach and we leave. Nothing ever happens (except maybe not eating bad food) but I feel on of these days that gut feeling will come back to save mine or her life.

    At the same time I was just addressing how you carry. I know for me open carry or concealed I am going to be alot more tolerable and calm knowing I have a gun on my person as to when I am not armed and I can tend to be more hot headed and open mouthed. I was just talking baout the fact on whether the odds of you getting attacked more because you are targeted for carrying a gun or not. Personally I feel that you will avoid more situations if people know you are armed. of course I also think this is not for everyone. Some people are just to ditzy and yes would run a good risk of having their gun taken from them. I am like Tedd though open or concealed I am aware of what goes on around me. And probably even more so when carrying open.

  11. #31
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    Besides trying my best to be aware of my surroundings...this is why I carry in my front pocket...it goes in easy, and it comes out easy, and I can keep my hands in my front pocket or pockets, and no one is the wiser, because I do it all the time.....as far as open carry, i say, if you can do it without getting thrown around by the local police, do it....if thats how you are comfortable carrying, do it....

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell View Post
    hi,

    i am TedDeBearFrmHell and i am a 24/7 open carry guy. and while i do see that the tactical advantage in your scenario is lost on the good guy what you failed to realize that anyone can build a scenario that "proves" any idea they wish to promote..... just a few days ago there was a thread where diane sawyer "proved" that concealed carry doesnt do anyone any good either.

    you can find me actively posting on the oregon section of opencarry.org . many of us are accused of "flaunting" our carry and justifiably so.... i council maturity but advice is not always taken.

    i usually appendix carry my p6 in a yaqui slide, its right there for anyone to if they are looking. but i been carrying long enough that i dont spend any time finger banging it either.
    I STAND CORRECTED Recently I had an altercation which resulted in my having to draw my weapon; no shots fired. I truely believe the situation would not have occured if I had been openly carrying my firearm. Your point was driven home in a very dramatic way. I am now trying to come to terms with the idea of regularly carrying my gun openly.

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    Brevard13 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survivor View Post
    I STAND CORRECTED Recently I had an altercation which resulted in my having to draw my weapon; no shots fired. I truely believe the situation would not have occured if I had been openly carrying my firearm. Your point was driven home in a very dramatic way. I am now trying to come to terms with the idea of regularly carrying my gun openly.
    That made me giggle a little. Not that you had to pull your gun. It made me giggle , because it is just one of those awkward moments when you realize you think someone is crazy for doing something you can't really understand, only to find out they really weren't crazy, and that they might be on to something.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I wasn't being sarcastic. It was an honest question about your experience.

    But you don't need to apologize.

    Steve :

    he takes you to task , game , set , and match

    .....writes enough feedback to make you look bad ( REAL bad ! )

    and the best comeback you can come up with is telling him he don't have to apologize ?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survivor View Post
    I STAND CORRECTED Recently I had an altercation which resulted in my having to draw my weapon; no shots fired. I truely believe the situation would not have occured if I had been openly carrying my firearm. Your point was driven home in a very dramatic way. I am now trying to come to terms with the idea of regularly carrying my gun openly.
    i recommend going to OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost! ... and clicking on the maps for your state... it will give you a butt ton of information and postings from people who oc in your area.

    i am glad you walked away from the confrontation unscathed.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAWPAUL View Post
    Steve :

    he takes you to task , game , set , and match

    .....writes enough feedback to make you look bad ( REAL bad ! )

    and the best comeback you can come up with is telling him he don't have to apologize ?
    I told him that he needn't apologize because I want him to feel comfortable in a continuing conversation with me and with everyone else who contributes here. He is just starting out, but he can learn a lot if he joins the conversation.

    If you believe that the conversations on this forum are some sort of game, with winners and losers, then you have very little understanding of the arts of polite conversation and how to learn from others.

    If you believe that what we post should make each other feel bad, or look bad, then you are acting very foolishly indeed.

  17. #37
    zhurdan's Avatar
    zhurdan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I told him that he needn't apologize because I want him to feel comfortable in a continuing conversation with me and with everyone else who contributes here. He is just starting out, but he can learn a lot if he joins the conversation.

    If you believe that the conversations on this forum are some sort of game, with winners and losers, then you have very little understanding of the arts of polite conversation and how to learn from others.

    If you believe that what we post should make each other feel bad, or look bad, then you are acting very foolishly indeed.

    OHHH EMMM GEEEE Steve... you got OWNED... or something. (sarcasm)

    Steve is well respected around here as being pretty damn level headed, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt over a new poster. NO OFFENSE new poster, but I can already tell that you will take offense as you are obviously a troll. Welcome PAWPAUL to handgunforum.net.

    Might be best to listen first... front later. Just sayin'. (btw... is that how the punks "tho down" now days or do we need to drop some shivs and go dirty?

    Good Lord... you try to give good advice and they just want to argue of minutia. Welcome to Paris Hilton's interwebs!

  18. #38
    MLB's Avatar
    MLB
    MLB is offline Supporting Member
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    Steve has the respect of a great deal of the folks here. It's for good reason. I'm confident that it will take more than infantile prattle to rile him.

    Here's to hoping you can find something worthwhile to contribute.

  19. #39
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    Thanks for your votes of confidence, guys.
    To quote Bugs Bunny: "Ah, me public...my fans."


    But please remember: Do not feed the troll.

  20. #40
    bruce333's Avatar
    bruce333 is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post

    But please remember: Do not feed the troll.
    what he said....back on topic please
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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    "I personally think we developed language because of our deep inner need to complain."--Jane Wagner
    "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
    -Isaac Asimov

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