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  1. #1
    Austin's Avatar
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    Info Cards for dealing with LEO's while I OC and CC

    Hello everyone I am new on here and just wanted to get some help for your experiences.

    I am a little timid when it comes to “Open Carrying” in NC. But I want to be an avid OC’er and I would like to have the tools to protect my right’s to do so.
    I understand that while people OC & CC they have carried some informational cards.
    I have also heard of good and bad experiences with the LEO’s.
    My hope is to use a “card” to keep me calm and keep them respecting my rights.

    So here is what I need:
    What should I put on a information card to let LEO’s and other "concerned" people know that I know my rights and if necessary educate them on the law as well?

    On the card I would put:
    Side One – Rights
    Side Two – Education

    Ok Let me know what I should place on it…..
    Specifically Greensboro and Raleigh area

    Please Help!!

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  3. #2
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    I'd suggest AGAINST this.

    Practice in your mind over and over what you want and NEED to say when pulled over AFTER studying the laws of where you live.

    Why? Where are you going to keep this card? Do they run your plates and know you have a gun before they get to the door? If you're explaining that you have a gun and are reaching for some "card" to help you out... I'd bet you are going to receive an education on how to put your face on the pavement, quick, fast and in a hurry. Or, learn how to not piss your pants when they put a gun in your face.

    Just be calm, keep your hands visible and don't make fast movements. If you aren't capable of remaining calm in tense situations, you may want to rethink carrying a gun. Because if push comes to shove and you need to use your weapon, you'll need a hell of a lot more ability to remain somewhat calm than what is required during a traffic stop.

    If you want this info to carry along with a video camera so you can be a Youtube star, blazing the trail to protect "our" rights... best of luck. I won't be watching your channel.

    *Disclaimer* This may sound harsh. Sorry about that, but if you can't read, digest and incorporate the laws of your state without needing flashcards... your priorities aren't aligned with mine. Carrying a gun around isn't to educate anyone in the law, it's to save your bacon when all hell has broken loose.

  4. #3
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    I guess, the first question would be, do you have a conceal carry permit? The second question would be, is it legal to open carry in your state without a conceal carry permit, like it is in my state(not that I would consider it for a second)? The third question(and I agree wholeheartedly) with zhur, is that, are you prepared to be looking sideways across the pavement, at their shoes? After saying all of that............" Officer, I respect your duties and obligations. I ask that you observe all my constitutional and statutory rights. I wish to exercise every applicable Constitutional and statutory right. Specifically, I wish to remain silent. I do not consent to any search of my person, effects, vehicle, or any premises for which I have standing to object. You may not question children without myself or my spouse present. I request that I be allowed to speak with my attorney before any further questions are asked of me or conversation attempted. I have no intention of waving these rights no matter what inducements, promises, or arguements I may be offered." Then, after you tell them what I just wrote, and they bang your head on the car door, while putting you in the back seat....I really think that you should reconsider this OC thing.....I have a CCW permit, and it is also legal to open carry in my state without a permit.......I don't know about down there, but here, you'd better keep it concealed, and when you make contact with law enforcement, you hand them your drivers license and your permit, and hope to hell for the best. Type A personalities, you know...aggressive...and in some cases, I don't blame them.

  5. #4
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    Jeeze...It's so much easier just to get a license, and to carry concealed.

    And you're less open to a gun-snatch, too.

  6. #5
    Austin's Avatar
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    WOW good stuff guys
    I don’t take most things personal I thank you for your input.
    – I need to make some clarifications…
    I am in the process of getting my CCW, my appointment to the sheriffs offer is approaching. It is legal to OC in NC. I am a cool and collective guy and I have no fear of the police when I know the law. I was speaking of when I am just walking around town (not in a car) and the LEO’s stop me for a “man with gun” call.
    Guess I should speak to a local attorney and have them explain exactly what I am to do when approached by a LEO.
    Personally I feel if it is our right to bear arms, we shouldn’t hide behind a CCW, if we were honest with ourselves we carry a CCW because we may want to shirt around this right and “Hide” it from our country men. I am not worried about someone taking my really nice Kimber 1911, I really don’t think anyone would risk that, if truth be told I could be wrong though.
    The Following you tube link changed how I really look at carrying a gun. Please look at this and let me know if you can help me further.

    What We Believe, Part 5: Gun Rights - YouTube

    Do you know of any good resource that I can call and have a chat about all of this?

  7. #6
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    I can only quote something that I hope you've already read:
    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    ...Carrying a gun around isn't to educate anyone in the law, it's to save your bacon when all hell has broken loose.
    Your job is not to try to change all of civilization, all by yourself, but rather to keep yourself and your family alive and prosperous.
    We elect various representatives to government, and delegate to them the job of changing all of civilization for us. Work hard to elect the right persons to those jobs, and then concentrate on doing your own local job.
    Walking around with an exposed gun on your hip will only irritate people, hoplophobes and pro-Second-Amendment people alike, and will expose you to harassment, and possibly also mortal danger.
    Open-carry when you're in LEO uniform, because it's symbolically important and part of the job. But as a civilian, or off-duty, don't make a the proverbial federal case out of yourself. You won't be helping us, and you certainly won't be helping yourself.

  8. #7
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    WOW good stuff guys
    I don’t take most things personal I thank you for your input.
    – I need to make some clarifications…
    I am in the process of getting my CCW, my appointment to the sheriffs offer is approaching. It is legal to OC in NC. I am a cool and collective guy and I have no fear of the police when I know the law. I was speaking of when I am just walking around town (not in a car) and the LEO’s stop me for a “man with gun” call.
    Guess I should speak to a local attorney and have them explain exactly what I am to do when approached by a LEO.
    Personally I feel if it is our right to bear arms, we shouldn’t hide behind a CCW, if we were honest with ourselves we carry a CCW because we may want to shirt around this right and “Hide” it from our country men. I am not worried about someone taking my really nice Kimber 1911, I really don’t think anyone would risk that, if truth be told I could be wrong though.
    The Following you tube link changed how I really look at carrying a gun. Please look at this and let me know if you can help me further.

    What We Believe, Part 5: Gun Rights - YouTube

    Do you know of any good resource that I can call and have a chat about all of this?
    In regards to the video... he lost me at 0:51 seconds when he broke Godwin's law. Totally unnecessary comparison and fuel for the anti's. Makes us all look like bloodthirsty revolutionaries just waiting for the chance to overthrow our Gov't, and that doesn't help "our" cause at all.

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    berettabone is offline Banned
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    I do not understand why you would want to " walk around town " with your firearm exposed......out is the woods in one thing, town streets is another.......there are so many anti gun zealots out there, that you will just make your life miserable.....they'll be calling law enforcement every chance they get..do you really want the hassle? Here, where I live, we have had 4 or 5 cases in the last year, where people decided it was a good idea to open carry..one guy was in his own yard....even though it is legal, they got their firearm taken for a while, and they all eventually sued, and won monetary awards, but is it really worth it...I guess you are the only one who can answer that. Personally, the less people that know I am packing, the better.

  10. #9
    Austin's Avatar
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    You guys have given me a lot to think about - I really am thankful for all the comments. I am leaning toward just go with the CC - to me it's not worth it to deal with the many people who do not know the law, espacially LEO's. So I have to really thank you all for taking me "under your wings" with this question.

    THANKS!!!!!!!!!

  11. #10
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    In regards to the video... he lost me at 0:51 seconds when he broke Godwin's law...
    But, zhur, he didn't!
    Godwin's Law is about the Reductio ad Nazium: Reducing every argument to something close to "I disagree with you because you sound just like Hitler."
    Merely mentioning the excesses of Hitler's decrees and the Nazi regime as part of an argument in favor of, or against, something is not the same as Godwin's Reductio ad Nazium.
    Does Godwin's Law also cover Stalin and Pol Pot? Or is it OK to mention them and their regimes in a discussion?

  12. #11
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    I hate it when you mess with me Steve. hehehe SPIRIT OF THE LAW!!!

  13. #12
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    (I'm biting my tongue, but it's slipping out anyway.)

    Jeeze, zhur, you sound just like a Nazi!


  14. #13
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    I do not understand why you would want to " walk around town " with your firearm exposed......out is the woods in one thing, town streets is another.......there are so many anti gun zealots out there, that you will just make your life miserable.....they'll be calling law enforcement every chance they get..do you really want the hassle? Here, where I live, we have had 4 or 5 cases in the last year, where people decided it was a good idea to open carry..one guy was in his own yard....even though it is legal, they got their firearm taken for a while, and they all eventually sued, and won monetary awards, but is it really worth it...I guess you are the only one who can answer that. Personally, the less people that know I am packing, the better.
    Psst. He doesn't live in Wisconsin. He lives in North Carolina and that is in the South where private ownership of firearms is quite common. I live in Virginia and I can attest to the fact that openly carrying your sidearm does not cause screams, panic, floods of calls to the police for MWAG, or anything of the sort. In other words, in my state it's a no-brainer.

    Now to our OP, look into some seminars in your area covering firearms and the law, and the use of deadly force. I have attended four such seminars/classes and I can tell you, many of your questions will get answered in them. This does not mean you are guaranteed to get the correct answers so seek out reputable sources before spending your time and money. Next, go to opencarry.org and the North Carolina forum. You'll get a wealth of information there. You might also visit the Virginia forum as well as that one is the most active of all.

    Whether or not you choose to open carry or go concealed is totally up to you. Don't let others on websites belittle you or make snide comments should you choose to go about openly. I do both but mostly I open carry and for good reason in my opinion.... which is the one that counts.

    And yes, speaking with an attorney knowledgeable and experienced in self defense cases can be a very good idea. I did this.

    Good luck to you and if I can help you more, just ask.

  15. #14
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    (I'm biting my tongue, but it's slipping out anyway.)

    Jeeze, zhur, you sound just like a Nazi!

    Hardly. I'm all for people doing their own thing, but when I saw this post... I immediately say "FUTURE YOUTUBE REVOLUTIONARY STAR". My apologies if the OP doesn't think that way, but I've been around the block a time or two.

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    berettabone is offline Banned
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    Psssst. southern boy.......I KNOW he doesn't live in Wisconsin....second, he himself said that he has heard of good and bad experiences with law enforcement...third, if you check statistics, there are probably just as many firearm owners in Wisconsin as N. Carolina...during deer hunting season, we have over a million people in the woods........if you want to be a cowboy, that's your perogative.....some people are just trying to inform him what and does happen when you decide to OC. Thats all. Opinion. You said it yourself....in YOUR state, it's a no brainer.......I do not think that anything posted was to belittle anyone, just a dose of reality...and as alot of us know, you can talk to all the attorney's, and go to seminars, and get all the info you desire, law enforcement does what it wants....knowing the law, doesn't save anyone from being hassled.

  17. #16
    x1wildone is offline Junior Member
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    Seems to me that the only ones that hide their firearms are the criminals. When or if you apply for your ccw license you will be treated like a criminal,finger prints , mug shot etc.

  18. #17
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by x1wildone View Post
    Seems to me that the only ones that hide their firearms are the criminals. When or if you apply for your ccw license you will be treated like a criminal,finger prints , mug shot etc.
    That's weird. I've had my CC permit for over 16 years and I've never committed a crime.

    Carrying concealed isn't about hiding it from view of other law abiding citizens, it's about having an advantage if all else has failed. By failed, I mean that a persons situational awareness didn't keep them out of danger in the first place. Some people get the idea that it's "cool" to have others attention on them regardless of why their attention is focused on them. Not saying everyone is this way, but most of the open carry folks I've ran across have their chests so puffed up you think they'd fly away simply because they have a gun on their hip. If open carry is the only allowable way to be armed, then so be it, but I prefer to not tip my hand to anyone.

  19. #18
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    Psssst. southern boy.......I KNOW he doesn't live in Wisconsin....second, he himself said that he has heard of good and bad experiences with law enforcement...third, if you check statistics, there are probably just as many firearm owners in Wisconsin as N. Carolina...during deer hunting season, we have over a million people in the woods........if you want to be a cowboy, that's your perogative.....some people are just trying to inform him what and does happen when you decide to OC. Thats all. Opinion. You said it yourself....in YOUR state, it's a no brainer.......I do not think that anything posted was to belittle anyone, just a dose of reality...and as alot of us know, you can talk to all the attorney's, and go to seminars, and get all the info you desire, law enforcement does what it wants....knowing the law, doesn't save anyone from being hassled.
    I'm no cowboy, son.

    What I was trying to convey is the fact that what the mood of a state, county, and area is in one state is not necessarily the same as in others. North Carolina has more laws restricting the carrying of arms than does Virginia. I have heard folks in other states say that if the local police saw someone OC'ing, the OC'er could expect to be stopped and detained and likely cuffed (some went so far to say "thrown to the ground with a knee in their back"). We don't see this happening here in Virginia. Now I'm not about to say that no one as ever had problems with the local police, that would be a foolish statement. But the frequency and severity are both rare when they do happen are meant with crowded town/county council meetings with armed folks (sometimes) voicing their ire at such treatment.

    In the seventeen years I have been carrying a firearm on a regular basis (the last five of which almost always openly), I have never had a negative encounter with an LEO. Quite the contrary, all have been positive and congenial and that is what I would expect. And to add to that, there has only been one negative civilian encounter and judging from his accent, he was not a native Virginian.

    So do keep in mind that folks tend to view the world from their own experiences and tend not to step out of that box to see how it is in other parts of the nation. How one might be viewed OC'ing in Wisconsin or Connecticut or Ohio is probably not how they are going to be viewed in my state. And as far as talking to attorneys, I have also spoken with a commonwealth's attorney (prosecutor) and a candidate for sheriff in an adjacent county as well as rank and file officers. The police learn pretty quickly to stay in line with the heat is turned on after they have overstepped their bounds.

  20. #19
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    You'd better stay in your own little world then, you're the one who needs to step out of the box........you live in a town of approx. 38,000.......the big city is a lot different.....we have 3 or 4 shootings a day...he specifically wanted info from the Greensboro, Raleigh area...not little towns of 38,000.......law enforcement really doesn't care what your "rights" are in the big city.....people understand that it's different, in different parts of the country, but I can guarantee you, that in the large cities, they do what they want........go open carry around in Virginia Beach, or Norfolk, or Chesapeake, or Arlington, and let me know how it goes for you........

  21. #20
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    You'd better stay in your own little world then, you're the one who needs to step out of the box........you live in a town of approx. 38,000.......the big city is a lot different.....we have 3 or 4 shootings a day...he specifically wanted info from the Greensboro, Raleigh area...not little towns of 38,000.......law enforcement really doesn't care what your "rights" are in the big city.....people understand that it's different, in different parts of the country, but I can guarantee you, that in the large cities, they do what they want........go open carry around in Virginia Beach, or Norfolk, or Chesapeake, or Arlington, and let me know how it goes for you........
    Arlington's no problem. We have a number of folks OC'ing there with no problems. I lived there for 24 years and was the second person in Arlington to receive a CHP in 1995 when the state went shall issue. I do contend that the Tidewater tends to have more problems with police than does the area around where I live, however Virginia Beach is fine. I suggest you go to opencarry.org and peruse the Virginia forum for those areas to see what folks are doing and experiencing. BTW, I don't live in Manassas. I spend time traveling in many parts of the countries of Fairfax, Prince William, and Loudoun which altogether have a population of around two million. I might add that two of these counties are the wealthiest ones in the nation. And I have OC'ing in Richmond around the capital building and actually into some of our legislators' offices, with no problems. Five years ago, seven folks had a run in with Manassas police and very soon several city council meetings were flooded with people who were outraged with what had taken place. Needless to say, the police got educated pretty quick on that one.

    North Carolina is not quite as open to carriers as is Virginia from what I understand, and they do have some strange laws on the books. So all I'm saying is people need to try to view things outside of the realm of their reality when addressing other parts of the country. Come on down here and see for yourself how it is to OC or CC (your choice of course). You'll see that it's really no big deal and hardly anyone pays you any attention. And when they do, almost always they have questions. How one conducts themselves can determine the outcome.

    Last year, I was in a Wegman's grocery store (for those who don't know, this is an upscale store based in New York). Apparently someone made a MWAG call and as I was starting to go through a checkout for a few things (I was the only customer in that line), a PWC officer approached me. It was immediately obvious to me that he really didn't want to bother me and thought the call was ludicrous. He was actually embarrassed as he asked all of three questions then right away turned the conversation to general grocery stuff (I was in the wine section). He did the absolute minimum in order to report back that he had made contact. Never asked for an ID (which I would not have to show), never detained me, and never had an attitude of any kind other than being friendly and joking with myself and the checker. He left before I finished paying. I really was obviously he thought the call was a waste of his time and completely unnecessary.

    So come on down for a visit. You might like what you see. We're friendly, things are good here, and you can carry as is your wont.

  22. #21
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Hello everyone I am new on here and just wanted to get some help for your experiences.

    I am a little timid when it comes to “Open Carrying” in NC. But I want to be an avid OC’er and I would like to have the tools to protect my right’s to do so.
    I understand that while people OC & CC they have carried some informational cards.
    I have also heard of good and bad experiences with the LEO’s.
    My hope is to use a “card” to keep me calm and keep them respecting my rights.

    So here is what I need:
    What should I put on a information card to let LEO’s and other "concerned" people know that I know my rights and if necessary educate them on the law as well?

    On the card I would put:
    Side One – Rights
    Side Two – Education

    Ok Let me know what I should place on it…..
    Specifically Greensboro and Raleigh area

    Please Help!!
    May I suggestion that you visit the following link for a wealth of information on this topic available through your fellow North Carolinians who will go out of their way to help you I'm sure.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...North-Carolina

    Good luck to you.

  23. #22
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
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    I gotta laugh a little...

    Your location is shown as: "Suburb of Manassas, VA."
    In the geography I remember, that could be Washington, DC.

    Heavens to Murgatroyd! Are you practicing entrapment for DC's MPD?




    (I'm so old that, when I was a kid, Manassas didn't have suburbs. It was a very small town, a suburb itself.)

  24. #23
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    I guess he missed the original post.......North Carolina, not Virginia....I don't think that austin is concerned with Virginia......( I'm old enough to remember, and I used to listen to Steven Stills Manassas...)

  25. #24
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    I gotta laugh a little...

    Your location is shown as: "Suburb of Manassas, VA."
    In the geography I remember, that could be Washington, DC.

    Heavens to Murgatroyd! Are you practicing entrapment for DC's MPD?




    (I'm so old that, when I was a kid, Manassas didn't have suburbs. It was a very small town, a suburb itself.)
    I like your humor.

    No, I am in the western part of Prince William County. It's just that most people who remember their grade school history studies probably also remember Manassas so I use that as a point of reference. As for DC, I avoid that cesspool like the plague. I use to love to go to DC when I was in high school (I then lived in Falls Church) because you could drink or buy to go at 18. We had a ball.

    I'd bet you and I are around the same age. I'll give you a hint for mine. I was a senior in high school when JFK was assassinated.

    As for our friend from Wisconsin, I hope he doesn't think I mean him any ill will. It's just that I have seen so many times on the various gun websites that people do seem to overlook how things really are in other states. And I do conceal my arm at those times when I deem it to be in my best interests. But I do have good reason to OC in my opinion. I have osteoarthritis in both knees so I can no longer run or fight as I was once able to do. Therefore, my hope is that anyone looking to do me evil will think twice when they see my little friend. This also means that when OC'ing, one has to be even more alert and aware of their surroundings than when they are CC'ing.

    Appreciated the humor and yes, I can certainly laugh at myself.

  26. #25
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    I guess he missed the original post.......North Carolina, not Virginia....I don't think that austin is concerned with Virginia......( I'm old enough to remember, and I used to listen to Steven Stills Manassas...)
    No, I saw the OP was from North Carolina, a sister state to us. I travel through there several times a year.

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