What are your thoughts about only these 7 items, Do not tell me all abut your 1911 or anything like it. Do not tell me to buy the one that fits my hand. Do not tell me to go with a 45 or than a 9mm is a wimpy choice I am interested in your experience with only these two handguns. Fit and finish, performance, reliability, ease of disassembly, accuracy etc.

First off, never put Taurus and Beretta in the same sentence. There's no comparison or similarity between the two.

Beretta is a true world-class handgun. Taurus is, well.........let's just leave it at that.

By now, you might have a clue as to what I'm going to recommend. The Beretta 92FS of course. It's head and shoulders above every gun you have listed.

You buy that gun and it will serve you well for the rest of your life. I usually don't go out on a limb very often for all that many firearms and recommend one, or two.

But since you didn't mention a Sig, you simply can't go wrong with the 92FS.

Originally Posted by paratrooper

First off, never put Taurus and Beretta in the same sentence. There's no comparison or similarity between the two.

Beretta is a true world-class handgun. Taurus is, well.........let's just leave it at that.

By now, you might have a clue as to what I'm going to recommend. The Beretta 92FS of course. It's head and shoulders above every gun you have listed.

You buy that gun and it will serve you well for the rest of your life. I usually don't go out on a limb very often for all that many firearms and recommend one, or two.

But since you didn't mention a Sig, you simply can't go wrong with the 92FS.

Yea i figured that, I was hesitant on the 92FS #1 the complexity for a first gun and #2 the price... The only reason that I mentioned the Taurus and evidently them together was because of the Brazilian factory, whatever you want to call it, but none-the-less I see your argument. However I was looking at a Sig or 2, like the SP2022 but that's the only thing I've heard anything extensive about, even though I've heard Sig and their products are reputable... Thoughts? Sig suggestions?!

You'll love the beretta 92. It's one of those guns I got rid of, for some odd reason,lol. Great gun.
External hammer, double action if needed. I like the open top slide style..

SIG P226.... like the Beretta 92, it has a long history and reputation for reliability and accuracy. Both are in a higher price range but are worth it. Buy once, cry once... and you have a gun that will outshoot you for years and last long enough to be passed down to another user.

I own both and highly recommend both. Great guns that are in another class than the others on your list.

Originally Posted by jbultman

Yea i figured that, I was hesitant on the 92FS #1 the complexity for a first gun and #2 the price... The only reason that I mentioned the Taurus and evidently them together was because of the Brazilian factory, whatever you want to call it, but none-the-less I see your argument. However I was looking at a Sig or 2, like the SP2022 but that's the only thing I've heard anything extensive about, even though I've heard Sig and their products are reputable... Thoughts? Sig suggestions?!

I own 2 of the pistols that you speak of from your original list; 92fs and PX4 storm's. Where did you get the information that a 92FS was too complex for a first time handgun? I assume you're wanting opinions regarding the pistols you mentioned by those who own them? The PX4 and 92FS are great pistols in my opinion. When you say you want comparisons when shooting, what exactly do you mean? Do you want subjective opinions or objective opinions, that being said even if you had an individual that has owned and shot all the pistols from your list it would still come down to a subjective opinion for the most part. One pistol that shoots well for one may not shoot well for the others and vis-a-versa? When you say that in the next couple of months you will be able to hopefully shoot and handle the pistols on your list in my opinion is the answer you are looking for. Pistols for the most part are very personal to the individual in their likes and dislikes. You have striker fired pistols mixed in w/ hammer fired pistols, do you like external safeties? What type of trigger do you like or prefer......so on and so on..............?

You'll find that quality firearms will hold their value as the years go by. Chances are good that you might not lose any money spent, if you should decide to sell after so many years, as long as the gun has been properly cared for.

So, so firearms, you'll be very lucky to get back 50% of what you paid for them after so many years.

The Beretta 92FS is very simple and easy to break-down for a quick cleaning.

For me, it takes about 3-4 seconds or so.

My opinion is the beretta 92fs. I have one and I love it. I love it way more than any gun (1911's included) its super accurate and comfortable to me. I can also highly recommend the Springfield xd line of pistols.

Just purchased sig p250 subcompact 9mm... Extremely pleased with accuracy and shoot ability. Very easy to disassemble. I would highly recommend this gun especially if its your first.

Originally Posted by denner

I own 2 of the pistols that you speak of from your original list; 92fs and PX4 storm's. Where did you get the information that a 92FS was too complex for a first time handgun? I assume you're wanting opinions regarding the pistols you mentioned by those who own them? The PX4 and 92FS are great pistols in my opinion. When you say you want comparisons when shooting, what exactly do you mean? Do you want subjective opinions or objective opinions, that being said even if you had an individual that has owned and shot all the pistols from your list it would still come down to a subjective opinion for the most part. One pistol that shoots well for one may not shoot well for the others and vis-a-versa? When you say that in the next couple of months you will be able to hopefully shoot and handle the pistols on your list in my opinion is the answer you are looking for. Pistols for the most part are very personal to the individual in their likes and dislikes. You have striker fired pistols mixed in w/ hammer fired pistols, do you like external safeties? What type of trigger do you like or prefer?

After reading this, I watched a youtube video of a 92FS field strip and I guess I miss read the comment. Because it definitely seemed easy (at least on the other side of the computer screen). However It just seems like a complex gun, to me never handling it, I want something that fires when I want it/need it too, break down easy, feels goods, and just plain works.... without breaking the bank. But i guess I understand what you are saying. Personal preference is key. I'm just worried about the quality of the gun, but I'm sure that my shop will guide me in the proper direction.

As far as safeties and trigger I really don't know I haven't shot them enough to find out what I like and don't like. I guess was I was referring to was the idea of some of them. i.e the Glock trigger safety (it almost seems pointless to me), the XDm grip safety (again seems pointless and just awkward). As far as triggers, again the Glock and XDm trigger safety, The M&P trigger (having that "split" trigger (or whatever you want to call it), and the 92FS and PX4 (the first pull being longer than the others (Double Action/ Single Action))

Originally Posted by jbultman

After reading this, I watched a youtube video of a 92FS field strip and I guess I miss read the comment. Because it definitely seemed easy (at least on the other side of the computer screen). However It just seems like a complex gun, to me never handling it, I want something that fires when I want it/need it too, break down easy, feels goods, and just plain works.... without breaking the bank. But i guess I understand what you are saying. Personal preference is key. I'm just worried about the quality of the gun, but I'm sure that my shop will guide me in the proper direction.

You are worried about the quality of the gun, after reading what we've said about it?

And......don't always assume that your gun shop will give you sage advice or lead you in the right direction. Some of the most mis-guided people I've met, worked in gun shops.

Originally Posted by paratrooper

You are worried about the quality of the gun, after reading what we've said about it?

And......don't always assume that your gun shop will give you sage advice or lead you in the right direction. Some of the most mis-guided people I've met, worked in gun shops.

sorry, Guns... I was speaking in generalities not specifically the 92FS. I know their track record, its evident being around since what, the mid 80's?

Then what, go for my own knowledge (or lack of), what feels the best, and what? Forums from uninvolved persons such as yoursefl? BTW thanks for all the help so far

Granted, it's not the most economically priced gun out there right now, but from what you said you are looking for, and wanting in a gun, the 92FS should fit your needs perfectly.

If you want a double-action only gun, there's the 92D. No safety to mess with, and it has a rather long, but consistent trigger pull.

Originally Posted by jbultman

After reading this, I watched a youtube video of a 92FS field strip and I guess I miss read the comment. Because it definitely seemed easy (at least on the other side of the computer screen). However It just seems like a complex gun, to me never handling it, I want something that fires when I want it/need it too, break down easy, feels goods, and just plain works.... without breaking the bank. But i guess I understand what you are saying. Personal preference is key. I'm just worried about the quality of the gun, but I'm sure that my shop will guide me in the proper direction.

As far as safeties and trigger I really don't know I haven't shot them enough to find out what I like and don't like. I guess was I was referring to was the idea of some of them. i.e the Glock trigger safety (it almost seems pointless to me), the XDm grip safety (again seems pointless and just awkward). As far as triggers, again the Glock and XDm trigger safety, The M&P trigger (having that "split" trigger (or whatever you want to call it), and the 92FS and PX4 (the first pull being longer than the others (Double Action/ Single Action))

Well, in my opinion you have a pretty good idea concerning the different platforms, which is a good thing. Most if not all the pistols you've mentioned are of high quality, so you should be able to scratch that from your lack of knowledge list. You are right again when you say personal preference is the key. So, at this point the best thing to do is try them if you can. All the pistols mentioned fit your wants if you become accustomed with the platform they present. It's arguable that striker fired pistols are easier to master due to the somewhat light consistent trigger pull(most, but not all). It's likewise arguable that DA/SA's are more forgiving due to the first DA pull, and the ability to decock the pistol on a live round in the chamber and as well can be mastered. There are give and takes on the different platforms, for example Glocks have no external safeties and give you a consistent 5.5 pound trigger pull on each shot, they are always ready to go when chambered. XD's and XDM's incorporate grip safeties for a reason, can you guess why, or research why? Some S&W's M&P's have external safeties some don't. What is your cup of tea? You won't truly know until you yourself take a sip. BTW, as far as the 92FS and Storms with the decoker/safety mechanism, due to the first DA trigger pull I prefer to always leave the safety in the off position as a habit, but many don't. They are not complex, levers up exposing the red dots = fire, levers down covering the red dots = safety.

If you want easy, accurate, reliable, inexpensive: Ruger.

Smith and Wesson M & P
Glock 17
Beretta PX4
Springfield XDm
Taurus PT-92 or or Beretta 92FS
Ruger SR9

Of the guns on your list, I own four of them, or variations thereof: the Glock 17, three M&P's, an XD40 (I know, it's not the XDm), and the Taurus 92AF. And I have handled and fired the Beretta 92FS. Now for the personal oponions.

Of these, the M&P has the best feel and ergonomics. It also has a low bore-to-axis which aids in sight alignment and natural pointability. It absorbs recoil excellently, if that is a concern, and its grip can be altered with the included back strap inserts. Next up would be the Glock 17. If it were only for total workability and reliability, the Glock 17 would take first place. It is only behind the M&P for one reason: the M&P's remarkable ergonomics. Both of these guns are very easy to disassemble and clean with the edge going to the Glock.

Then the Beretta. As I mentioned, I have a Taurus 92AF, but the Beretta is more polished and refined. My problem with the Beretta is me, not the gun. I don't care for double action pistols for self defense guns, preferring instead DAO. And it is heavier than the two mentioned in the first paragraph. But it is a fine piece and does feel good in the hand even though it has a higher bore-to-axis.

Then the XD. Good gun and a proven gun. My biggest problem with it is its bore-to-axis and for me, it is not a natural pointer. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with it.

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy

Smith and Wesson M & P
Glock 17
Beretta PX4
Springfield XDm
Taurus PT-92 or or Beretta 92FS
Ruger SR9

Of the guns on your list, I own four of them, or variations thereof: the Glock 17, three M&P's, an XD40 (I know, it's not the XDm), and the Taurus 92AF. And I have handled and fired the Beretta 92FS. Now for the personal oponions.

Of these, the M&P has the best feel and ergonomics. It also has a low bore-to-axis which aids in sight alignment and natural pointability. It absorbs recoil excellently, if that is a concern, and its grip can be altered with the included back strap inserts. Next up would be the Glock 17. If it were only for total workability and reliability, the Glock 17 would take first place. It is only behind the M&P for one reason: the M&P's remarkable ergonomics. Both of these guns are very easy to disassemble and clean with the edge going to the Glock.

Then the Beretta. As I mentioned, I have a Taurus 92AF, but the Beretta is more polished and refined. My problem with the Beretta is me, not the gun. I don't care for double action pistols for self defense guns, preferring instead DAO. And it is heavier than the two mentioned in the first paragraph. But it is a fine piece and does feel good in the hand even though it has a higher bore-to-axis.

Then the XD. Good gun and a proven gun. My biggest problem with it is its bore-to-axis and for me, it is not a natural pointer. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with it.

I do like the M&P alot, the trigger is the hesitant factor for me! I believe that I could get used to the jointed/split/hinged trigger but... still a little awkward, Opinions?

Have you shot the Sig P226? If, so opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

Originally Posted by jbultman

I do like the M&P alot, the trigger is the hesitant factor for me! I believe that I could get used to the jointed/split/hinged trigger but... still a little awkward, Opinions?

Have you shot the Sig P226? If, so opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

You get use to the M&P trigger pretty quickly. Since it is a two stage trigger, somewhat like the Glock trigger, it is not usual unless you are not use to those triggers. It is very simple to make it smoother and have an overall better feel. The practical accuracy of the gun is very good to excellent (practical accuracy = gun and shooter combination). It is just a very natural feeling gun and comes up quick to target.

As for the split trigger on the M&P, I just don't know why Glock, Springfield XD's, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson M&P have to have a safety tang on their triggers. I don't see why this seems to be a good thing. I say this because if you get something in or around the safety enough to depress it, then the trigger is going to be depressed as well. The internals of the gun have sufficient safety components to render the gun safe if it is dropped. I just don't see the need for that trigger safety, but that is a personal thing. The M&P two stage trigger does not have as crisp a break as does the Glock trigger, unless you install the Apex hard sear. Then it is almost 1911-like in its break.

Yes I have fired the Sig Sauer P226 and it is a sweet gun. However, I shoot the M&P and my gen3 Glock 23 better than the Sig so that pretty much rules out the Sig for me. The one I shot was a double action and I am not found of double action pistols. I have owned a number of them in the past but currently only own one.

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy

As for the split trigger on the M&P, I just don't know why Glock, Springfield XD's, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson M&P have to have a safety tang on their triggers. I don't see why this seems to be a good thing. I say this because if you get something in or around the safety enough to depress it, then the trigger is going to be depressed as well. The internals of the gun have sufficient safety components to render the gun safe if it is dropped. I just don't see the need for that trigger safety, but that is a personal thing. The M&P two stage trigger does not have as crisp a break as does the Glock trigger, unless you install the Apex hard sear. Then it is almost 1911-like in its break..

Well said, I completely agree, this trigger nonsense from the major companies, is well... nonsense!

I think that I've decided to shoot the following:

Smith and Wesson M&P9
Sig Sauer P226
Beretta 92FS
Glock 17
Beretta PX4

Any ideas for what to look for when they are actually in my hand? pulling the trigger, accuracy, overall performance, ease of disassembly.. And how will I decide which ones better? tighter grouping, feel, trigger, accuracy....

I just don't want to get this first gun purchase wrong, if that makes any sense.

For a first gun purchase, you cannot go wrong with the Beretta 92FS or the Sig P226.

All 1st gun purchasers should have such a tough choice..............

I have 4 of these and I like the XDM the most. It is very accurate and shoots without a hitch. I bought the XDM 3.8. My 2nd Choice is the Glock 17 as it is a fine weapon at a good price, followed by the M&P it shoots well too. The 92FS shoots true to aim but to put night sights on it requires a good gun smith and it will run you about 300 to buy and put the sights on. I find the Glock to be very reliable and to be the most durable with night sights on it.

you didn't have the sig in your original list. Your list is growing,lol.

Originally Posted by shaolin

I have 4 of these and I like the XDM the most. It is very accurate and shoots without a hitch. I bought the XDM 3.8. My 2nd Choice is the Glock 17 as it is a fine weapon at a good price, followed by the M&P it shoots well too. The 92FS shoots true to aim but to put night sights on it requires a good gun smith and it will run you about 300 to buy and put the sights on. I find the Glock to be very reliable and to be the most durable with night sights on it.

One thing that puts me off from the xdm is the trigger and grip safety? I just dont like idea of it... How are they when your holding the gun and firing it?

Originally Posted by pic

you didn't have the sig in your original list. Your list is growing,lol.

Ya, ya, ya... Hey it happens, and I think I can make an exception for such a well beloved gun!