Both are excellent firearms... my favorite is the Covert II (if you can find it).

I think the issue you hear about regarding mags is most people don't understand that some Kimbers are finicky about what ammo they like. You need to see what brand, grain ammo runs best and stick with it. Most people assume its the mags fault.

I was looking at the Custom Coverty II also it is a sharp looking gun. Again though It has the laser which I am not totally thrilled with. If I was going to have a laser I think that I would also like to have a light as well an dbe able to turn it off and on as i felt like. The grip laser does concern me a bit with everytime you pick up the gun the laser comes on. I do own a couple of Glocks for the more utilitarian purposes, hunting, shooting the neighbors cat etc.. The Kimber would be for mre of a range gun to start out with and if CA ever changed the lame ass laws about concealed carry, the Kimber would be my carry gun.

You can turn the laser off via a tiny switch... I'm not a big laser fan myself, but its nice to have if your vision is impaired for some reason.

If my vision is impaired I will not be able to see the laser either.

Impared to the extent you can't use your 3 dots... unless you train in point shooting which a lot of folks don't.

If you can't see the three dots, how are you going to see 1 dot the same size as 3 10-15 ft away?

I do undertand what you mean with the point shooting. I do use that technique. I was trained do do that in AIT.
How much are those batteries, are they a PITA to change, do I need to remove the grips to change it.

I am up to $ guns again now.

The CDP II, Warrior II if I can get it, Tactical Entry, and the Ellipse.

The Ellipse is a good looking gun too but so is the Tactical Entry. I am still at the piont of rail or no rail. How does the rail effect the resale of the gun? All my other guns have a rail, Glock, S&W, Ruger etc.. The Colt does not but its not an eveyday gun, it was inherited from my GF which was a Lt. C. in WWII. What is the life of the gun is its a steel frame or alum?

If you buy a Kimber 4" or longer in 45 and it is ammo sensitive,it isn't right.The first thing to check is the extractor tension,then the mag because they are known weak spots-the mags less so.Next is barrel fit/feedramp specs,which is much better compared to the earlier days.Another overlooked problem is where the mag catch holds the mag for heighth,specs have deviated over the years and George at EGW started making mag releases that hold the mag .020" higher in the well to offset the problem.

Speer's old 200gr HP called the flying ashtray was the best test of feeding unless you believed in empty cases,the majority of modern HPs have learned to stay away from that profile and feed fine if the gun is built to spec and the barrel is throated.

A steel 1911 should run 250,000 rounds easy if you're willing to replace worn barrels and clean up the lockwork (firing mechanism),but an aluminum frame will crack or be beat to hell long before that.Aluminum is for low weight carry,a shooter needs to be steel.

On the sighting end of the conversation,I belive in KISS.I find dots annoying and distracting besides most of the time they are a different POA/POI than the actual sight.At close range,like 7-10yds,you really don't need sights for combat accuracy.Lazers are cool,and help if you can't point shoot,but I'll pass till I'm 1/2 blind.

If this is gonna be your first Kimber, you might want to ask around in regards to their reliability. I myself, have never owned one, but I know of several that do. I hear reports that are all over the place. Some say no problems or issues, some say that they have had feed / function issues, and I know of two guys that each bought one, and both sold the guns within a month or so.

I shot a friend's Kimber a couple of years ago. Gotta say I wasn't impressed, and he had paid some very good money for it. I forgot what model it was, but I do know it was a full-sized model.

I don't think Kimber has a reputation for being functional right out of the box. They recommend something like firing 500 rds. or so, to break it in.

I've never known another company that states their firearm has a break-in period.

Me personally, I'd never own a Kimber. Too many other brands that are much better and with a better track record.

Originally Posted by rex

If you buy a Kimber 4" or longer in 45 and it is ammo sensitive

I probably should have included that. I would never buy a $1500+ 1911 that had less than a 5" barrel

Man I type slow,I added more to mine and you 2 posted.

Paratrooper is kind on his Kimber thoughts compared to me.Their first generation was pretty good,after that you couldn't give me one of those or a Glock.Besides the marketing they both do I have 2 issues with Kimber:

The first is you get a whole one year warranty,boy they're proud of their product.

The second is what Paratrooper said,QC sucks.About 4 years ago an unofficial reliability out of the box poll was done on any brand handgun,excluding ammp malfunctions.Your cheap crap like Jennings,Lorcin,RG were preety dismal as usual,but Kimber was running about a 50% failure rate out of the box.Les Baer builds tight 1911s and they weren't near that bad,so what's up with the kimbers?Money.If it smooths out in their "break-in",good for you and them.If it doesn't you send it back and they might actually fix it.If they do great,but if they don't you're in the group that says screw it and get rid of it.

Just my opinion of them in general,please don't start me on Glocks because they might ban me.

thsi was a repost due to slow internet. I deleted it

Originally Posted by paratrooper

If this is gonna be your first Kimber, you might want to ask around in regards to their reliability. I myself, have never owned one, but I know of several that do. I hear reports that are all over the place. Some say no problems or issues, some say that they have had feed / function issues, and I know of two guys that each bought one, and both sold the guns within a month or so.

I shot a friend's Kimber a couple of years ago. Gotta say I wasn't impressed, and he had paid some very good money for it. I forgot what model it was, but I do know it was a full-sized model.

I don't think Kimber has a reputation for being functional right out of the box. They recommend something like firing 500 rds. or so, to break it in.

I've never known another company that states their firearm has a break-in period.

Me personally, I'd never own a Kimber. Too many other brands that are much better and with a better track record.

I have heard the same thing. I have heard that there is a breakin period and that is because of the tolerences are very tight. The people that love them say that they are one of the best 1911 style guns you can buy. Some say tyhat they are junk and highly over priced. But then again, I have heard the same about my favorite gun that I have ever owned, the S&W Sigma 40. I never had a problem with the gun and could knock out centers of targets at 100 yards, no problem.

The Kimber name has a great rep. but so does many others. The main reason I am thinking about Kimber is be cause they are the only one that has the features I want at the price I can afford. CA roster is very strict. If I would be able to get the SR1911 I would do that for sure. They are 100% made in the USA, every part screw, bolt, pin, and spring. they have an excellent warranty and I have delt with them before, Love them.
The SR1911 is not on the roster and I will never again buy a used gun. I did once and they guy said that he took great care in the gun. When I got it home it was a nightmere. Since I was the second owner the warranty was void and I was stuck trying to fix it myself. $600 later the gun worked but I was so fed up I sold it for market value at $400.

I also have heard great things about S&W, Dan wesson, Springers, Colt, Sig, Rock island etc But I have heard horror stories too.

I do want a 1911. I do want a show quality gun. I do want a gun that I can show off. I do want a good looking 1911. and I do want quality for my money. I do have $1500 to spend on this gun and I want the gun to have that throated barrel and be able to eat whatever I put into it. Lately I have been feeding Tula into my Glocks ans Smiths without a problem. I do not vare in the rounds are dirty because I completly clean all my guns every time I shoot them. It would be nice to be able to shoot lead bullets from them but it is not necessary, justr would be nice. I cant do that with the Glock. I do like the the looks of the kimber and I do like the internal extractor. S&W and Springer have an external extractor wich on my last 1911 was a joke. I think I would be willing to take the chance on a Kimber because I have never heard a bad thing about the customer service and they have a 2-3 day turn around. S&W has a 2-3 week turn around time and I am jus not willing to buy a gun only to give it back for another month.

Originally Posted by rex

please don't start me on Glocks because they might ban me.

My opinion on Glocks was not good either for a long period. I do not like the Gen 1,2, or 4. I bought the 3 in 17 and 21. The reason why is the reset. It is the best reset in any other gun of the same price range and its esay to take apart and clean. WhenI bought my sigma I learned how to smith pretty well and I rebuilt that gun at least a dozen times. When I bought the glocks I wa thrilled with the performance and accuracy they provided. they were better than the S&W M&P by far. I have taken down the glocks many times and done some work on them and if I F something up I can gio to any gun shop to get parts for it. The Glock and the 1911 have an insane aftermarket parts industry and parts are available anywhere. I am hoping my next gun, the Kimber will be as awsome and accurate as the glock. If its a 500 round break in, I can do that the same day I take it home. I will just need to clean it and lube the gun up with some good lube and take it to the range and start let loose. After a couple hundred rounds shoot the other guns let the Kimber cool and then give a quick cleaning and go again.

I have a Gen III Glock 21C. Never was a big Glock fan, but had an opportunity to pick one up NIB at a very good price.

I wanted a handgun that I didn't have to baby, in regards to scratches, marks, etc. I also wanted a compensated handgun, to see what all the fuss was about. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Anyways, I don't shoot reloads through it, only factory rounds. I went ahead a picked up a non-comped barrel for it from Glock. Figured if I ever sold it in the future, it would have both barrels and that would open up a larger base of possible buyers, for those that don't like a comped barrel.

It's the only Glock I have as of right now. I have no plans to buy another. It shoots just fine, no issues or problems, and it's a large gun that fills my huge hands just fine.

Oh yeah, I've got a Kydex holster for it that works slicker than snot. It's a low-profile style, and the guns literally clicks in and out of it. It couldn't work any better.

The compistaed barrel, you will only really see what that is about when you are rapid firing the gun. If you are not double and triple tappinf there is not need to have that barrel. The C stands for compitition not compensated. The trigger is also lighter than a regular glock. Your is about 3-4 lbs while mine is 5-6 lbs.

Originally Posted by Vector16

The compistaed barrel, you will only really see what that is about when you are rapid firing the gun. If you are not double and triple tappinf there is not need to have that barrel. The C stands for compitition not compensated. The trigger is also lighter than a regular glock. Your is about 3-4 lbs while mine is 5-6 lbs.

Before you go off spouting things that you don't know anything about, you better check your facts prior to making them.

I've included this: Glock 21C .45 Pistol for Sale

My Glock is NOT a competition model. The "C" does stand for compensated.

Originally Posted by paratrooper

Before you go off spouting things that you don't know anything about, you better check your facts prior to making them.

And you say that I don't know WTF I am talking about!!? I have compensators on a few of my guns, pistol and wheel guns. You obviously do not know what a compensator is for. I will explain it to you in simple terms. When you are firing a pistol with a compensator while also reducing recoil the compensator reduces muzzle flip so the shooter is able to stay on target for fast follow up shots. (rapid fire)
You can take you "spuoting things you don't know about" comment and s***e it.

Originally Posted by paratrooper

I also wanted a compensated handgun, to see what all the fuss was about. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

I thought I would give you some insight to what the compensator does since you obviously do not know and you are "still trying to figure that one out"

Next time you make a comment like that, try to read your last post. then try not to be such "Democrats Cavity". Lets see if you are smart and can figure out that riddle.

ALSO, JO: just thought you might want to know this, it backs up what I said.

Mechanically, the Glock 21c and 21sf pistols are equally accurate. Your physical ability to hit a target increases from the reduction in recoil provided by a pistol designed with a barrel compensator. Because the Glock 21c has less muzzle lift, it is easier for a shooter to reposition the gun and accurately fire another round.

Read more: Glock 21C Vs. Glock 21Sf | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6818566_gl...#ixzz2JnBzmb4c

I know what a compensator on a barrel is. It doesn't always work the same for all shooters. For me, it's more of a gimmick than anything else.

You said the "C" in Glock 21C stood for competition. By the way, you spelled it wrong. The "C" does not stand for competition. It stands for compensated.

Muzzle flip is more of an issue or problem for some. For me, it's nothing, it's irrelevant. I don't need a compensated barrel on any of my firearms, be it handguns or long guns.

When I said that I was still trying to figure it out, I was referring to why so many think it's a great thing. Of course, for many, once convinced in their mind, that's all that matters, whether it works out or not in reality.

Originally Posted by Vector16

The compistaed barrel, you will only really see what that is about when you are rapid firing the gun. If you are not double and triple tappinf there is not need to have that barrel. The C stands for compitition not compensated. The trigger is also lighter than a regular glock. Your is about 3-4 lbs while mine is 5-6 lbs.

You'd have more validity if you knew how to spell what you're referring to.

Originally Posted by paratrooper

You'd have more validity if you knew how to spell what you're referring to.

OMG!! I do not not type well or give a rat if I misspell a word or two on a chat room on the internet. I am not being paid to to type or in school. If I felt like having my work graded, i will be sure to send you a private message and you can go thru it and make sure all of the words are spelled correctly and I have used all the correct punctuation. Then you can give me a grade on my work. You are in to that it would seem. Would that make you happy, Chief?

I own the Custom CDP 2 and I love it! Paid $970 for it and it was well worth it. I use the 230 grain loads without a hitch.