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  1. #1
    Dutchiness is offline Junior Member
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    Question Intro + i need gun information??

    Hello everyone,

    my name is Evan and i'm from the Netherlands. Recently I've cleaned out my old parents room and I found a gun there. I have no idea what kind it is and I've done a lot of googling but I can't find anything about it. So here I am, asking you for help.

    There are no papers with the gun and after the pictures I'll subscribe what is marked in the gun.










    the inscriptions say:
    "The Guardian American ODE 41786"

    I know it's a Ladies gun with a retractable trigger and a safety lock for the cylinder.

    the barrel looks straight but we can't see if there are grooves inside and I don't know if it still fires or what bullets go in. (we measured 7mm)

    if anyone can tell me something about this gun and maby know what it's worth you'd do me a grate favor.

    thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Dutchiness is offline Junior Member
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    I've only found this peace of text:

    ”The Guardian American Model of 1878” Belgium Made Pocket Revolver, Six-shot, 7mm pinfire, Liege Proofed"

    but these guns are allready made of metal, this one is made of lead.

  3. #3
    chessail77's Avatar
    chessail77 is offline Senior Member
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    Hi and welcome

  4. #4
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    It's the original "Saturday-night special," a relatively cheap, Belgian, pinfire, double-action revolver from the 1870s. Yes, some people call these guns "muff pistols," because some, um, ladies carried them in muff (fur hand-warmer) pockets.
    There are proofmarks on the right side of its barrel. Look up "Belgian proofmarks" on the internet. That may help you narrow-down where it was made (Liege?) and proofed.

    Open the loading gate, on the right side, at the rear end of its cylinder. Rotate the cylinder with your fingers, and make absolutely certain that there are no old cartridges inside it. Use the extractor push-rod at the front of the cylinder. Push it through each cylinder chamber, to make sure that each is empty.
    Now you can safely check its function, to see of the mechanism works. Be very gentle. Go very slowly.
    If nothing moves easily, carefully remove its wood grip-panels, soak the gun in penetrating oil, let it sit for a day or so, and try again.

    Pulling the unfolded trigger should cause the hammer to move, and the cylinder to revolve. Go slowly. Be gentle.
    Thumbing the hammer's spur should revolve the cylinder and move the trigger. At the end of its travel, the hammer should catch on an internal part, and should not move forward again until the trigger is pulled. Try this gently.
    Do not disassemble this gun. You will lose internal parts. There still are gunsmiths in the Netherlands, I believe, so let an expert take it apart if that is necessary. (If you are an expert mechanic, or a mechanical engineer, disregard that last instruction.)

    To clean it, use no abrasives at all. You may use a cylindrical brass-bristle brush to clean inside its barrel and its cylinder bores, with plenty of oil. Push tight-fitting cotton or linen patches through all of the bores and the barrel, to get the remaining dirt out.
    Now, use a micrometer caliper to measure the diameter of the barrel's bore, and also the cylinder's holes. That will give you an idea of its caliber.

    You can still buy pinfire cartridges, maybe including some that will fit this gun.
    Resist that temptation. Do not fire it.
    It is very old and it was cheap, so it is probably quite weak.

  5. #5
    denner's Avatar
    denner is offline Senior Member
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    Very well done Steve. Interesting piece.
    Last edited by denner; 12-31-2012 at 11:50 PM.

  6. #6
    paratrooper is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    It's the original "Saturday-night special," a relatively cheap, Belgian, pinfire, double-action revolver from the 1870s. Yes, some people call these guns "muff pistols," because some, um, ladies carried them in muff (fur hand-warmer) pockets.
    There are proofmarks on the right side of its barrel. Look up "Belgian proofmarks" on the internet. That may help you narrow-down where it was made (Liege?) and proofed.

    Open the loading gate, on the right side, at the rear end of its cylinder. Rotate the cylinder with your fingers, and make absolutely certain that there are no old cartridges inside it. Use the extractor push-rod at the front of the cylinder. Push it through each cylinder chamber, to make sure that each is empty.
    Now you can safely check its function, to see of the mechanism works. Be very gentle. Go very slowly.
    If nothing moves easily, carefully remove its wood grip-panels, soak the gun in penetrating oil, let it sit for a day or so, and try again.

    Pulling the unfolded trigger should cause the hammer to move, and the cylinder to revolve. Go slowly. Be gentle.
    Thumbing the hammer's spur should revolve the cylinder and move the trigger. At the end of its travel, the hammer should catch on an internal part, and should not move forward again until the trigger is pulled. Try this gently.
    Do not disassemble this gun. You will lose internal parts. There still are gunsmiths in the Netherlands, I believe, so let an expert take it apart if that is necessary. (If you are an expert mechanic, or a mechanical engineer, disregard that last instruction.)

    To clean it, use no abrasives at all. You may use a cylindrical brass-bristle brush to clean inside its barrel and its cylinder bores, with plenty of oil. Push tight-fitting cotton or linen patches through all of the bores and the barrel, to get the remaining dirt out.
    Now, use a micrometer caliper to measure the diameter of the barrel's bore, and also the cylinder's holes. That will give you an idea of its caliber.

    You can still buy pinfire cartridges, maybe including some that will fit this gun.
    Resist that temptation. Do not fire it.
    It is very old and it was cheap, so it is probably quite weak.


    Well said and informative!

  7. #7
    Steve M1911A1's Avatar
    Steve M1911A1 is online now Senior Member
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    There is a Netherlands website that deals exclusively with pinfire pistols. Click on: http://www.penvuur.nl/
    In particular, see his photos of 7mm Revolvers, and look specifically at Pistol #11.

    From that picture, I believe that you have a gun made in Liege, Belgium, by Charles Clement. It was probably made after 1887, since that year appears in the gun's model-name.

  8. #8
    sgms is offline Member
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    Very well done Steve.

  9. #9
    Dutchiness is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M1911A1 View Post
    It's the original "Saturday-night special," a relatively cheap, Belgian, pinfire, double-action revolver from the 1870s. Yes, some people call these guns "muff pistols," because some, um, ladies carried them in muff (fur hand-warmer) pockets.
    There are proofmarks on the right side of its barrel. Look up "Belgian proofmarks" on the internet. That may help you narrow-down where it was made (Liege?) and proofed.

    Open the loading gate, on the right side, at the rear end of its cylinder. Rotate the cylinder with your fingers, and make absolutely certain that there are no old cartridges inside it. Use the extractor push-rod at the front of the cylinder. Push it through each cylinder chamber, to make sure that each is empty.
    Now you can safely check its function, to see of the mechanism works. Be very gentle. Go very slowly.
    If nothing moves easily, carefully remove its wood grip-panels, soak the gun in penetrating oil, let it sit for a day or so, and try again.

    Pulling the unfolded trigger should cause the hammer to move, and the cylinder to revolve. Go slowly. Be gentle.
    Thumbing the hammer's spur should revolve the cylinder and move the trigger. At the end of its travel, the hammer should catch on an internal part, and should not move forward again until the trigger is pulled. Try this gently.
    Do not disassemble this gun. You will lose internal parts. There still are gunsmiths in the Netherlands, I believe, so let an expert take it apart if that is necessary. (If you are an expert mechanic, or a mechanical engineer, disregard that last instruction.)

    To clean it, use no abrasives at all. You may use a cylindrical brass-bristle brush to clean inside its barrel and its cylinder bores, with plenty of oil. Push tight-fitting cotton or linen patches through all of the bores and the barrel, to get the remaining dirt out.
    Now, use a micrometer caliper to measure the diameter of the barrel's bore, and also the cylinder's holes. That will give you an idea of its caliber.

    You can still buy pinfire cartridges, maybe including some that will fit this gun.
    Resist that temptation. Do not fire it.
    It is very old and it was cheap, so it is probably quite weak.

    Thank you very much! this is very helpful. Unfortunately i'm not home at the moment. But when i get home I'll try to open it like you said. Again I will make some pictures of it if you're interested

    I'm don't have any interest in firing it, I kind of like it as a peace of art. but thanks for the heads up!

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