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  1. #1
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Another shooting?

    Movie theater shooting, Colorado. Mall shooting in Oregon. And now inevitably you will all have already heard of the shooting in Connecticut by the time you read this, but at this time 28 are dead I don't honestly know if more shootings are happening or if the media is just deciding to report them more. All in all, I am pretty frustrated these incidents because they are 100% preventable.

    Even with the extreme stress and psychological factors that arouse when someone must use their gun in self defense, its worth while to have someone there who can stop nonsensical violence. The killers and criminals in our world kill with such ease. Its so commonsensical to me yet these incidences are being used against us as they are politicized.

    Why haven't we been able to run a campaign against these dumb carry law exceptions? A definite reason is the politicians don't want us to have guns, even some of your beloved Republicans would rather not talk about it (see your very own Presidential elect Mitt Romney). So these politicians have time, money, and energy to dump into gun control and even convince some of us its a good idea. The gun rights issue in my opinion is strictly Politicians vs. Citizens, we are more unorganized then they are both financially and structurally, yet we outnumber them???

    Anyways guys this stuff I predict will be coming up more and more now in the media its clear that the government will be using this to build a case for strict gun control in this country. The president is from Illinois and were next door neighbors here in Iowa, I know how awesome Illinois gun control is working out.

    You should be able to carry absolutely anywhere if you are a good citizen without a felony record since history shows gun free zones are the #1 places where these things happen. Next time someone puts a gun or a knife or whatever tool they think to use to kill are you going to remind them that gun control is illegal?

    But I'm the crazy one...

    One man has the potential to stop an entire band of evil ones. If one of these things happen in my area (while im not carrying) I honestly can't say how I will react. I will say that I hope to have the strength not to simply run away even if I'm not armed in a no carry zone. I read in a readers digest about a kid who stabbed another kid with guns with a pencil and stopped him from killing an entire class room (I cant cite this specific case but heres another readers digest with a kid who wrestled a gunman down http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1591956/posts). A whole bunch people can be saved if someone risk theirs to save others. I understand its different when your in the situation but the pattern is clear and we need to take a stand both politically and socially...

  2. #2
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    They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future

  3. #3
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future
    You can count on it.

    Watch for a permanent "assault weapon" ban and a limit of 10 rounds in semi-auto magazines for rifle and handgun. Initially, currently owned evil and "ugly" (read that as military in appearance semi-auto rifles which are NOT assault rifles at all) and higher capacity magazines will not be affected. But if we get several more incidences like what happened today, then you very well may see attempts at confiscation.

    So buy up extra magazines and if you do not have an AR, a Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30, an SKS, or some similar semi-auto centerfire rifle, get one or more before they are outlawed.

  4. #4
    goNYG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future
    Yes, his press guy said today is not the day to talk about gun control and then he got up and said something meaningful must be done regardless of the politics, whatever than means.

  5. #5
    goNYG's Avatar
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    I support a "Twisted and Alienated Young Men Ban".

  6. #6
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by goNYG View Post
    Yes, his press guy said today is not the day to talk about gun control and then he got up and said something meaningful must be done regardless of the politics, whatever than means.
    Yeah I don't understand "now is not the time to talk about it"

    Ok so we waited because of Portland which just happened a few days ago, and what now we wait for more to happen, then whens the time to talk about it ever coming?

  7. #7
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    They are going to use this as a soapbox, to many shootings lately. They are not looking at the age group and the fact that the younger kids are playing these video games where they can kill as many people as they want and when they get frustrated they act out that world in real life; What is the old saying “that life mirrors fantasy”?

  8. #8
    goNYG's Avatar
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    We've been talking about it for years. We talked about it after Columbine, after Tucson, after Aurora, and right now. We have been and we are always talking about it. Which should lead one to ask,
    "what conclusions have we come to?" I'd say it's fairly clear that we've come to the following conclusion, more or less: "We fundamentally value our constitutional RKBA; we understand that there are risks that access to guns will lead to bad outcomes, unspeakable tragedies even, but we are willing to accept those risks based on a variety of offsetting benefits."

    Everybody has an opinion, I don't think anybody's holding anything back, do you? There is no shortage of politicians looking to solve their constituents' problems and we have many and frequent elections. We keep massive amounts of statistics on crime, we have numerous scholars who study those statistics and present analyses. I'm not sure what is missing from the conversation? And what has been the general trend in ownership and legislation? More ownership and less restrictive legislation - that is what our non-stop, ongoing conversation has led to, for good or ill. So, add to the debate, keep talking about it, but please spare us the tedious pleas to finally have a conversation when it's been going on for forever.

  9. #9
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    I hate to bring this up but what if someone would have had a gun; things would have been different! They need to get over this “gun free zone” crap and realize it’s not working. Every mass shooting has happened in a gun free zone.

    If the principal would have had a gun or even armed teacher things could have been different no one wants to turn tragedy into a political argument but we see that is exactly what is going to happen. They are going bury our rights and we are going to have to crawl out of the hole once again.

    What’s amazing is the smartest people are the most naive that they think that eliminating guns will make everyone safer but here we are; another gun free zone under attack

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    I hate to bring this up but what if someone would have had a gun; things would have been different! They need to get over this “gun free zone” crap and realize it’s not working. Every mass shooting has happened in a gun free zone.

    If the principal would have had a gun or even armed teacher things could have been different no one wants to turn tragedy into a political argument but we see that is exactly what is going to happen. They are going bury our rights and we are going to have to crawl out of the hole once again.

    What’s amazing is the smartest people are the most naive that they think that eliminating guns will make everyone safer but here we are; another gun free zone under attack
    I agree 100% we need to remove these "gun free zones". Let's face it we live in a society and world were everyone needs to protect themselves.

  11. #11
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    Massad Ayoob discussed the solution of shooters in schools in this article as being the most effective:

    "Israel began the program of armed citizen guards in the schools after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s, when a large number of children were slain in a terrorist incident. The volunteer parents work in plain clothes, armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols, and are trained by Israel's home guard. It is significant that in the more than a quarter century between Maalot and the incident mentioned above when the citizen guards shot down the terrorist in the school in 2002, not a single child was murdered in an Israeli school!"
    In time of war: The Israeli answer to terrorism by Massad Ayoob

  12. #12
    Ala Tom is offline Junior Member
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    One of the anchors on TV said there are no background checks on 40% of guns sold on Internet. I posted a note on Huffington post questioning that. I described how it works for most purchases where the gun is shipped to a licensed dealer who notifies the local sheriff for a background check and then sells you the gun across the counter so there is little difference between buying in a store and buying from an on-line source. Boy did the anti-gun crowd come after me. They called me a liar, a fraud and a few other things. Boy if that crowd ever gets their hands on guns, look out. They're a bunch of nasty rascals. There is a lot of mis-information out there and they don't want anyone to correct them!

  13. #13
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    The mall shooting in Oregon.....stolen gun. The tragedy today in Connecticut.......guns not registered in shooters name , taken from his Mother ( guns she bought and registered in her name?) that he shot in the face, stole her car and proceeded to drive to the school where he caused an absolute tragedy. Let's not forget about the innocent children and staff. What bothers me the most is that not one poster here has shown any sympathy , what so ever, to the victims but , instead, are worried about gun control. Shoulda, woulda , coulda. How sad that the victims can't be remembered just for a few minutes without this becoming political. Jakeleinen1, do tell me how these incidents are 100% preventable as I would like to pass it on to local and state police?

  14. #14
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    guns not registered in shooters name , taken from his Mother
    Why does mom need an AR-15 type rifle.....? She bought those guns for the kids (just my opinion)

    What bothers me the most is that not one poster here has shown any sympathy
    we feel the pain and grief for the parents and family’s but what we feel even more is the wave of BS that is coming. Every time something happens they want to regulate the market like that is going to do something. Someone loses control of their guns and 50 million people get punished, I see no justice just politics

  15. #15
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Why does mom need an AR-15 type rifle.....? She bought those guns for the kids (just my opinion)
    So you saying that women can't have an AR-15? That the AR-15 (and similar) are just for men? Wow, just wow.

  16. #16
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey barstoolguru (name says it all, lol) still no mention of sympathy, from you or anyone else, for the victims today.

  17. #17
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    So you saying that women can't have an AR-15? That the AR-15 (and similar) are just for men? Wow, just wow.
    I never said that but what I am saying is straw buy (if you can prove different post it ) and I am sorry for what happen but just because someone runs someone over with a car don't mean the shut the hwy down for ever. Here is your sympathy so get over it and focus on the real problems like she didn't secure HER rifle or HER guns and allowed access from her mental son. we can sit here and piss on each other’s shoes but that gets nothing done

  18. #18
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    LOL you forget I don't need or want the sympathy, I am still alive. Wow you seem so hard. I'm wearing rubber boots so you can piss all you want. Me , I only piss in the toilet, outside or in a porta john. Merry Christmas and do try not to be such a Grinch! Oh, straw buy? You prove it is then you post it. Remember that I'm wearing rubber boots! LOL. Oh and a mom is a woman.

  19. #19
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhonda02 View Post
    Jakeleinen1, do tell me how these incidents are 100% preventable as I would like to pass it on to local and state police?
    Oh its simple really, you know the teachers you trust your kids with? Why don't you let acouple responsible ones have a gun somewhere?

    This is just coming from a 23 year old kid who had a guy in my class of 100 kids (400 in my high school) senior year come to school with multiple shotguns and 8 boxes of ammo to kill everybody over something with his girlfriend. They only got him before he went to school because he posted about it on facebook. Id rather have my teachers have been able to stop him then watch everyone die.

    And as far as sympathy goes what does it do? There was literally just a mass shooting in Portland Oregan and yet nothing has changed. The definition of insainity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something different to happen? In China TODAY there was a mass stabbing where a doctor stabbed 22 children. No one feels sorry for them. How about the collateral damage that happens in Iraq, Afganhastan, and all over the world EVERYDAY?

    People die, and the fact of the matter is just because they are from our country doesn't make them any more important then the people who lose their lives everyday to stuff even worse than this (hard to believe but see Africa). I am CONSTANTLY concious of the people who lose their lives all over the world not just in the US. Im not going to fake cry about it like Obama though.

    The difference between what happens in the rest of the world and in the US is we could have stopped it if we didn't have green signs and we trusted eachother alittle bit more to have someone have a gun in a gun free zone.

  20. #20
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeleinen1 View Post
    Oh its simple really, you know the teachers you trust your kids with? Why don't you let acouple responsible ones have a gun somewhere?

    This is just coming from a 23 year old kid who had a guy in my class of 100 kids (400 in my high school) senior year come to school with multiple shotguns and 8 boxes of ammo to kill everybody over something with his girlfriend. They only got him before he went to school because he posted about it on facebook. Id rather have my teachers have been able to stop him then watch everyone die.

    And as far as sympathy goes what does it do? There was literally just a mass shooting in Portland Oregan and yet nothing has changed. The definition of insainity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something different to happen? In China TODAY there was a mass stabbing where a doctor stabbed 22 children. No one feels sorry for them. How about the collateral damage that happens in Iraq, Afganhastan, and all over the world EVERYDAY?

    People die, and the fact of the matter is just because they are from our country doesn't make them any more important then the people who lose their lives everyday to stuff even worse than this (hard to believe but see Africa). I am CONSTANTLY concious of the people who lose their lives all over the world not just in the US. Im not going to fake cry about it like Obama though.

    The difference between what happens in the rest of the world and in the US is we could have stopped it if we didn't have green signs and we trusted eachother alittle bit more to have someone have a gun in a gun free zone.
    You say it's easy. Well lets look at that. The majority of teachers would be liberal. Would you agree? Second, how far do you think (letting " a couple of responsible ones" have guns?). Neve rmind the backlash of the so called liberals in this country, you know the ones that are anti gun? I get what you are saying but one has to look at the overall picture. Look outside the box. Just because you and I and a few others think that would be the answer ( teachers with guns ) isn't all that feasible with the majority. You see in this day and time, we as responsible gun owners, have become the minority. The media, liberals and anti guns have stave off anyone that can't and will not think for themselves, rationally or just with plain common sense. You mentioned the stabbings in China today. The way the libs think is, that no one was killed but if there was a gun involved there would have been. Get the meaning? There is some difference in the collateral damage and the shootings today. One is war, which is never good and the other is one that is not war but a peaceful town that has been erupted in the slayings of innocent children. I know what you are thinking but we are talking two different worlds. Is it so bad to stop and have sympathy for any one that does not deserve to die in anyway, form or fashion of such a young age no matter where they are from? Death is never easy and hard to take especially when it is close to home. You are 23 and hopefully have a full life ahead of you. Think wisely and diligently . Think outside the box. See things from more than one perspective. Most of all listen to all and take what you believe to be the most trusting. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays and sit straight in the saddle.

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