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  1. #1
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Another shooting?

    Movie theater shooting, Colorado. Mall shooting in Oregon. And now inevitably you will all have already heard of the shooting in Connecticut by the time you read this, but at this time 28 are dead I don't honestly know if more shootings are happening or if the media is just deciding to report them more. All in all, I am pretty frustrated these incidents because they are 100% preventable.

    Even with the extreme stress and psychological factors that arouse when someone must use their gun in self defense, its worth while to have someone there who can stop nonsensical violence. The killers and criminals in our world kill with such ease. Its so commonsensical to me yet these incidences are being used against us as they are politicized.

    Why haven't we been able to run a campaign against these dumb carry law exceptions? A definite reason is the politicians don't want us to have guns, even some of your beloved Republicans would rather not talk about it (see your very own Presidential elect Mitt Romney). So these politicians have time, money, and energy to dump into gun control and even convince some of us its a good idea. The gun rights issue in my opinion is strictly Politicians vs. Citizens, we are more unorganized then they are both financially and structurally, yet we outnumber them???

    Anyways guys this stuff I predict will be coming up more and more now in the media its clear that the government will be using this to build a case for strict gun control in this country. The president is from Illinois and were next door neighbors here in Iowa, I know how awesome Illinois gun control is working out.

    You should be able to carry absolutely anywhere if you are a good citizen without a felony record since history shows gun free zones are the #1 places where these things happen. Next time someone puts a gun or a knife or whatever tool they think to use to kill are you going to remind them that gun control is illegal?

    But I'm the crazy one...

    One man has the potential to stop an entire band of evil ones. If one of these things happen in my area (while im not carrying) I honestly can't say how I will react. I will say that I hope to have the strength not to simply run away even if I'm not armed in a no carry zone. I read in a readers digest about a kid who stabbed another kid with guns with a pencil and stopped him from killing an entire class room (I cant cite this specific case but heres another readers digest with a kid who wrestled a gunman down http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1591956/posts). A whole bunch people can be saved if someone risk theirs to save others. I understand its different when your in the situation but the pattern is clear and we need to take a stand both politically and socially...

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  3. #2
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    They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future

  4. #3
    SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future
    You can count on it.

    Watch for a permanent "assault weapon" ban and a limit of 10 rounds in semi-auto magazines for rifle and handgun. Initially, currently owned evil and "ugly" (read that as military in appearance semi-auto rifles which are NOT assault rifles at all) and higher capacity magazines will not be affected. But if we get several more incidences like what happened today, then you very well may see attempts at confiscation.

    So buy up extra magazines and if you do not have an AR, a Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30, an SKS, or some similar semi-auto centerfire rifle, get one or more before they are outlawed.

  5. #4
    goNYG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    They are already talking about a gun ban, Obama said he didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it right now but it will be brought up in the future
    Yes, his press guy said today is not the day to talk about gun control and then he got up and said something meaningful must be done regardless of the politics, whatever than means.

  6. #5
    goNYG's Avatar
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    I support a "Twisted and Alienated Young Men Ban".

  7. #6
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by goNYG View Post
    Yes, his press guy said today is not the day to talk about gun control and then he got up and said something meaningful must be done regardless of the politics, whatever than means.
    Yeah I don't understand "now is not the time to talk about it"

    Ok so we waited because of Portland which just happened a few days ago, and what now we wait for more to happen, then whens the time to talk about it ever coming?

  8. #7
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    They are going to use this as a soapbox, to many shootings lately. They are not looking at the age group and the fact that the younger kids are playing these video games where they can kill as many people as they want and when they get frustrated they act out that world in real life; What is the old saying “that life mirrors fantasy”?

  9. #8
    goNYG's Avatar
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    We've been talking about it for years. We talked about it after Columbine, after Tucson, after Aurora, and right now. We have been and we are always talking about it. Which should lead one to ask,
    "what conclusions have we come to?" I'd say it's fairly clear that we've come to the following conclusion, more or less: "We fundamentally value our constitutional RKBA; we understand that there are risks that access to guns will lead to bad outcomes, unspeakable tragedies even, but we are willing to accept those risks based on a variety of offsetting benefits."

    Everybody has an opinion, I don't think anybody's holding anything back, do you? There is no shortage of politicians looking to solve their constituents' problems and we have many and frequent elections. We keep massive amounts of statistics on crime, we have numerous scholars who study those statistics and present analyses. I'm not sure what is missing from the conversation? And what has been the general trend in ownership and legislation? More ownership and less restrictive legislation - that is what our non-stop, ongoing conversation has led to, for good or ill. So, add to the debate, keep talking about it, but please spare us the tedious pleas to finally have a conversation when it's been going on for forever.

  10. #9
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    I hate to bring this up but what if someone would have had a gun; things would have been different! They need to get over this “gun free zone” crap and realize it’s not working. Every mass shooting has happened in a gun free zone.

    If the principal would have had a gun or even armed teacher things could have been different no one wants to turn tragedy into a political argument but we see that is exactly what is going to happen. They are going bury our rights and we are going to have to crawl out of the hole once again.

    What’s amazing is the smartest people are the most naive that they think that eliminating guns will make everyone safer but here we are; another gun free zone under attack

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    I hate to bring this up but what if someone would have had a gun; things would have been different! They need to get over this “gun free zone” crap and realize it’s not working. Every mass shooting has happened in a gun free zone.

    If the principal would have had a gun or even armed teacher things could have been different no one wants to turn tragedy into a political argument but we see that is exactly what is going to happen. They are going bury our rights and we are going to have to crawl out of the hole once again.

    What’s amazing is the smartest people are the most naive that they think that eliminating guns will make everyone safer but here we are; another gun free zone under attack
    I agree 100% we need to remove these "gun free zones". Let's face it we live in a society and world were everyone needs to protect themselves.

  12. #11
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    Massad Ayoob discussed the solution of shooters in schools in this article as being the most effective:

    "Israel began the program of armed citizen guards in the schools after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s, when a large number of children were slain in a terrorist incident. The volunteer parents work in plain clothes, armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols, and are trained by Israel's home guard. It is significant that in the more than a quarter century between Maalot and the incident mentioned above when the citizen guards shot down the terrorist in the school in 2002, not a single child was murdered in an Israeli school!"
    In time of war: The Israeli answer to terrorism by Massad Ayoob

  13. #12
    Ala Tom is offline Junior Member
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    One of the anchors on TV said there are no background checks on 40% of guns sold on Internet. I posted a note on Huffington post questioning that. I described how it works for most purchases where the gun is shipped to a licensed dealer who notifies the local sheriff for a background check and then sells you the gun across the counter so there is little difference between buying in a store and buying from an on-line source. Boy did the anti-gun crowd come after me. They called me a liar, a fraud and a few other things. Boy if that crowd ever gets their hands on guns, look out. They're a bunch of nasty rascals. There is a lot of mis-information out there and they don't want anyone to correct them!

  14. #13
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    The mall shooting in Oregon.....stolen gun. The tragedy today in Connecticut.......guns not registered in shooters name , taken from his Mother ( guns she bought and registered in her name?) that he shot in the face, stole her car and proceeded to drive to the school where he caused an absolute tragedy. Let's not forget about the innocent children and staff. What bothers me the most is that not one poster here has shown any sympathy , what so ever, to the victims but , instead, are worried about gun control. Shoulda, woulda , coulda. How sad that the victims can't be remembered just for a few minutes without this becoming political. Jakeleinen1, do tell me how these incidents are 100% preventable as I would like to pass it on to local and state police?

  15. #14
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    guns not registered in shooters name , taken from his Mother
    Why does mom need an AR-15 type rifle.....? She bought those guns for the kids (just my opinion)

    What bothers me the most is that not one poster here has shown any sympathy
    we feel the pain and grief for the parents and family’s but what we feel even more is the wave of BS that is coming. Every time something happens they want to regulate the market like that is going to do something. Someone loses control of their guns and 50 million people get punished, I see no justice just politics

  16. #15
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Why does mom need an AR-15 type rifle.....? She bought those guns for the kids (just my opinion)
    So you saying that women can't have an AR-15? That the AR-15 (and similar) are just for men? Wow, just wow.

  17. #16
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey barstoolguru (name says it all, lol) still no mention of sympathy, from you or anyone else, for the victims today.

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    So you saying that women can't have an AR-15? That the AR-15 (and similar) are just for men? Wow, just wow.
    I never said that but what I am saying is straw buy (if you can prove different post it ) and I am sorry for what happen but just because someone runs someone over with a car don't mean the shut the hwy down for ever. Here is your sympathy so get over it and focus on the real problems like she didn't secure HER rifle or HER guns and allowed access from her mental son. we can sit here and piss on each other’s shoes but that gets nothing done

  19. #18
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    LOL you forget I don't need or want the sympathy, I am still alive. Wow you seem so hard. I'm wearing rubber boots so you can piss all you want. Me , I only piss in the toilet, outside or in a porta john. Merry Christmas and do try not to be such a Grinch! Oh, straw buy? You prove it is then you post it. Remember that I'm wearing rubber boots! LOL. Oh and a mom is a woman.

  20. #19
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhonda02 View Post
    Jakeleinen1, do tell me how these incidents are 100% preventable as I would like to pass it on to local and state police?
    Oh its simple really, you know the teachers you trust your kids with? Why don't you let acouple responsible ones have a gun somewhere?

    This is just coming from a 23 year old kid who had a guy in my class of 100 kids (400 in my high school) senior year come to school with multiple shotguns and 8 boxes of ammo to kill everybody over something with his girlfriend. They only got him before he went to school because he posted about it on facebook. Id rather have my teachers have been able to stop him then watch everyone die.

    And as far as sympathy goes what does it do? There was literally just a mass shooting in Portland Oregan and yet nothing has changed. The definition of insainity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something different to happen? In China TODAY there was a mass stabbing where a doctor stabbed 22 children. No one feels sorry for them. How about the collateral damage that happens in Iraq, Afganhastan, and all over the world EVERYDAY?

    People die, and the fact of the matter is just because they are from our country doesn't make them any more important then the people who lose their lives everyday to stuff even worse than this (hard to believe but see Africa). I am CONSTANTLY concious of the people who lose their lives all over the world not just in the US. Im not going to fake cry about it like Obama though.

    The difference between what happens in the rest of the world and in the US is we could have stopped it if we didn't have green signs and we trusted eachother alittle bit more to have someone have a gun in a gun free zone.

  21. #20
    dhonda02 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeleinen1 View Post
    Oh its simple really, you know the teachers you trust your kids with? Why don't you let acouple responsible ones have a gun somewhere?

    This is just coming from a 23 year old kid who had a guy in my class of 100 kids (400 in my high school) senior year come to school with multiple shotguns and 8 boxes of ammo to kill everybody over something with his girlfriend. They only got him before he went to school because he posted about it on facebook. Id rather have my teachers have been able to stop him then watch everyone die.

    And as far as sympathy goes what does it do? There was literally just a mass shooting in Portland Oregan and yet nothing has changed. The definition of insainity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something different to happen? In China TODAY there was a mass stabbing where a doctor stabbed 22 children. No one feels sorry for them. How about the collateral damage that happens in Iraq, Afganhastan, and all over the world EVERYDAY?

    People die, and the fact of the matter is just because they are from our country doesn't make them any more important then the people who lose their lives everyday to stuff even worse than this (hard to believe but see Africa). I am CONSTANTLY concious of the people who lose their lives all over the world not just in the US. Im not going to fake cry about it like Obama though.

    The difference between what happens in the rest of the world and in the US is we could have stopped it if we didn't have green signs and we trusted eachother alittle bit more to have someone have a gun in a gun free zone.
    You say it's easy. Well lets look at that. The majority of teachers would be liberal. Would you agree? Second, how far do you think (letting " a couple of responsible ones" have guns?). Neve rmind the backlash of the so called liberals in this country, you know the ones that are anti gun? I get what you are saying but one has to look at the overall picture. Look outside the box. Just because you and I and a few others think that would be the answer ( teachers with guns ) isn't all that feasible with the majority. You see in this day and time, we as responsible gun owners, have become the minority. The media, liberals and anti guns have stave off anyone that can't and will not think for themselves, rationally or just with plain common sense. You mentioned the stabbings in China today. The way the libs think is, that no one was killed but if there was a gun involved there would have been. Get the meaning? There is some difference in the collateral damage and the shootings today. One is war, which is never good and the other is one that is not war but a peaceful town that has been erupted in the slayings of innocent children. I know what you are thinking but we are talking two different worlds. Is it so bad to stop and have sympathy for any one that does not deserve to die in anyway, form or fashion of such a young age no matter where they are from? Death is never easy and hard to take especially when it is close to home. You are 23 and hopefully have a full life ahead of you. Think wisely and diligently . Think outside the box. See things from more than one perspective. Most of all listen to all and take what you believe to be the most trusting. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays and sit straight in the saddle.

  22. #21
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Not badly stated dhonda02, and I do understand what you are saying. It is sad how we have become the minority that i agree with you on and yes the teachers would most likely be against carry but

    My main point is that I believe in America still. We have many problems now, and just because there are so many ignorant and naive citizens doesn't mean I still wont do anything to preserve the rights we have, bc honestly, everyday they are less and less. Just like common sense is going away. I can't give up on this. I don't just write about it on forums, I am active outside of online too and thats something that people these days don't do. 99% of people post useless opinions on facebook and call it a day never changing themselves

    Happy holidays buddy...

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhonda02 View Post
    You say it's easy. Well lets look at that. The majority of teachers would be liberal. Would you agree? Second, how far do you think (letting " a couple of responsible ones" have guns?). Neve rmind the backlash of the so called liberals in this country, you know the ones that are anti gun? I get what you are saying but one has to look at the overall picture. Look outside the box. Just because you and I and a few others think that would be the answer ( teachers with guns ) isn't all that feasible with the majority. You see in this day and time, we as responsible gun owners, have become the minority. The media, liberals and anti guns have stave off anyone that can't and will not think for themselves, rationally or just with plain common sense. You mentioned the stabbings in China today. The way the libs think is, that no one was killed but if there was a gun involved there would have been. Get the meaning? There is some difference in the collateral damage and the shootings today. One is war, which is never good and the other is one that is not war but a peaceful town that has been erupted in the slayings of innocent children. I know what you are thinking but we are talking two different worlds. Is it so bad to stop and have sympathy for any one that does not deserve to die in anyway, form or fashion of such a young age no matter where they are from? Death is never easy and hard to take especially when it is close to home. You are 23 and hopefully have a full life ahead of you. Think wisely and diligently . Think outside the box. See things from more than one perspective. Most of all listen to all and take what you believe to be the most trusting. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays and sit straight in the saddle.
    Well said.

  24. #23
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    I expect to see the following:

    o A ban on the importation, manufacture, and sale of semi-automatic "assault weapons" to include all of the 19 original rifles in the 1994 Assault Weapons ban as well as any new rifles of a similar style and utility.

    o A ban on the importation, manufacture, and sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds.

    o All private sales of firearms to go through the NICS and transferred by a licensed FFL dealer.

    o The proposal of a national 10-day waiting period (this is a back door to kill gun shows).

    o The proposal of licensing and registration laws with permanent record keeping at the federal level.


    The next major move on the horizon from these people would be to reclassify all currently owned semi-automatic rifles and pistols as Class 2 firearms. This would be devastating to the firearms industry and would seriously thin the number of privately owned firearms in this country. Another one or two horrific incidences like we saw at the school in Newtown, Connecticut could be the event(s) that push this one over the edge.

    The real danger in all of this is Obama acting outside of the congress and doing these things on his own. With this man and his minions, nothing is off of the table and I wouldn't trust them at all (I don't trust most politicians, anyway). The congress, the house in particular, just gets in his way and he is more of a mind to do things around them than to go through them as demanded by the Constitution. But then again, when has that document ever stopped any of these people who are really bent on limiting our rights?

  25. #24
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    I've posted the following on another forum, but I believe that it fits in here as well:

    Crazy people remain crazy, or get crazier, in a permissive Progressive society that believes it is wrong to incarcerate them against their will—as if the insane were able to make such a reasoned choice.
    And then, when uncontrolled crazy people do crazy, harmful things, the permissive Progressive society tells them that they bear no responsibility for having done those crazy, harmful things. No penalties and no restrictions are applied.
    The result of this insane Political Correctness on the part of the permissive Progressive society is that insane people are not identified, and are neither observed nor restricted. Thus they are free to do all of the harm that their personal demons require of them.

    And, since he behaved true to form, thus I have defined the Connecticut child-killer.

    But that's OK: It was the gun's fault. After all, crazy people are never responsible for their own actions, Q.E.D.

  26. #25
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    Here's another one:

    Jean, a retired educator—specifically in special education, in fact—suggests that the Connecticut shooting was the expected result of wholesale denial: By both parents of the shooter, by the schools he attended (including the school he shot up), and by society in general.
    This wholesale denial, we both feel, is the result of the Progressive technique of calling disabled people "differently abled," as if there were nothing wrong, and as if the disability did not matter. Thus, Adam (the shooter) was never seriously supervised as a slightly-aberrant personality, and thus his mother did not keep her firearms safe from his access, even though it is fairly well known that similar personalities tend to "crack" at unpredictable times.
    This all fits into the general characteristic of our permissive Progressive society: a perversion of reality, which requires, for instance, that all big-city busses be expensively modified to "kneel" to accept wheelchairs, when it would be far less costly to provide specially-equipped, smaller busses providing door-to-door service to the seriously disabled. That is, everybody must be served alike, and no functional differentiation can be permitted.
    This societal attitude can, of course, be easily traced to our current Progressive preoccupation with pseudo-equality: We have changed from a society of equal opportunity to a society which demands equality of outcome, a will-'o'-the-wisp we continue to chase even as society falls apart around us as the result.

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