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  1. #1
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    About to buy a new gun?!? Decisions, Decision.. Need an extra safety?

    I'm about ready to purchase a new gun, first time buyer. I'm really impressed with the glock but I don't like that it doesnt have a thumb safety or decocker. Is this necessary for a first time gun owner?

    I did take the 4 hour course and now hand gun safety, do you think I should get a gun with another safety and decocker if I'm not going to be using it as a concealed weapon? Its mainly for range use and to have it at home for safety (a big disaster happens, etc).

    I don't have any kids, I'm 33 y/o and married.

    I'm currently shopping the g19, and g17. Beretta and S&W have caught my attention a bit as well.

    Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2
    VAMarine's Avatar
    VAMarine is online now Administrator
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    An additional safety couldn't hurt.

    How does your wife feel about the whole gun thing?

  4. #3
    shamrock62 is offline Junior Member
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    I have the M&P .40 The ergonomics are great, fits well (especially w/ choice of three grips) shoots excellent and is super reliable. I am a huge S&W fan to begin with, especially with all the new work they have done! Can't go wrong.

  5. #4
    sleepy's Avatar
    sleepy is offline Junior Member
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    Just my personal opinion, I prefer a thumb/decocker safety. The reason for me is I have more experience with revolvers than semi autos and I feel more comfortable with additional safety. That being said, I own 3 without additional safety/decockers and I love to shoot them at the range and are quality guns. I have a few with decocker/safetys and I will carry one for ccw at times. I believe that being inexperienced and new to firearms, you need all the safety precautions you can get. Once a gun goes bang, you can`t put the bullet back in the barrel and saying I`m sorry doesn`t quite cut it with guns. My EDC is a SP101 .357 wheel gun and I feel very safe with it.

  6. #5
    hideit's Avatar
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    the glock is like a revolver - neither have locks - just pull the trigger
    HOWEVER
    the Glock has 3 internal safeties that prohibit the gun going off unless the trigger is intentionally pulled

  7. #6
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hideit View Post
    the glock is like a revolver - neither have locks - just pull the trigger
    HOWEVER
    the Glock has 3 internal safeties that prohibit the gun going off unless the trigger is intentionally pulled

    A Glock is nothing like a revolver unless the revolver is DA only and has a short 5.5 pound trigger. Most revolvers have between an 8 to 12 pound trigger in DA, coupled with a longer trigger pull and a much longer reset. Many revolvers likewise are DA/SA. Any trigger w/a somewhat short 5.5 pound pull is much less forgiving than a much longer 8 to 12 pound trigger in my opinion. I have no problem dropping my S&W 637 in a pocket w/o a holster, but a Glock 26 I'd never dream of it.
    Last edited by denner; 12-05-2012 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #7
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    My wife is okay with it now with everything going on in the world these days (including huge disaster, election, world in turmoil, etc). She's not ecstatic about it, but she says its my choice. She's from Europe and guns are highly revered over in those neck of the woods.

    A question regarding non-glock guns, to put one in the chamber what do you have to do? rack it, take off the thumb safety, then pull back the trigger? after you shoot one, the trigger goes back and ready to fire. for some reason you want to decock the gun, use the decocker? i know this might sound simple but most of my experience has to deal with glocks.

  9. #8
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    My wife is okay with it now with everything going on in the world these days (including huge disaster, election, world in turmoil, etc). She's not ecstatic about it, but she says its my choice. She's from Europe and guns are highly revered over in those neck of the woods.

    A question regarding non-glock guns, to put one in the chamber what do you have to do? rack it, take off the thumb safety, then pull back the trigger? after you shoot one, the trigger goes back and ready to fire. for some reason you want to decock the gun, use the decocker? i know this might sound simple but most of my experience has to deal with glocks.
    Beretta, Sig, H&K to name a few, which employ the DA/SA trigger have decokers/safetys, or just decockers, but of course there is a number of different models with varients and even Walther I believe has a striker fired pistol that you can decock. Unless you opt for a Beretta tomcat, jetfire, or cheeta(flip up barrel) you must rack the slide on a semi-auto to chamber a round. The exposed hammer, (unlike a striker fired pistol) will be ready to fire in SA, or with beretta for example, if you leave the decoker/safety engaged(down) the hammer will automatically decock and you would just need to flip up the safety to fire the first DA shot. Or you can rack the slide to chamber a round w/ the decocker/safety off and then you would need to activate the decoker/safety on to decock the pistol. i don't know if you understood this but it was the best I could do.
    Last edited by denner; 12-05-2012 at 05:19 PM.

  10. #9
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    So with a Beretta, lets say you put in the mag, what do you have to do to fire a shot?

  11. #10
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    So with a Beretta, lets say you put in the mag, what do you have to do to fire a shot?
    Which Beretta? I believe if you read my post above a little closer you should be able to find the answer. But for the sake of clarity, a 92fs, you fully seat a loaded magazine into the pistol, rack the slide, if you have the safety/decocker down the pistol will load and decock automatically and remain on safety. From that point the pistol is fully loaded, and what you would have to do is flip up the safety/decocker to the firing position and there you have it. To decock the pistol flip the safety/decocker down and it will decock the pistol and the pistol would be on safety until you flip it back up. First shot DA, the rest SA, or you could manually cock the hammer back and start out SA.
    Last edited by denner; 12-05-2012 at 05:20 PM.

  12. #11
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Thanks for clarifying! For for the first DA, how many LBS of pressure do you need the 15lbs? like a revolver?

  13. #12
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    Thanks for clarifying! For for the first DA, how many LBS of pressure do you need the 15lbs? like a revolver?
    I'd say between 8 to 12 pounds and a pretty long pull at that, so yes, like a revolver. You could go with a "D" spring at lighten the trigger pull quite a bit, but I'm just fine w/ the stock and shoot DA very well. A glock trigger in my opinion is easier to master than the DA pull on DA/Sa's because of the consistent short light pull. The SA mode in the 92fs is really sweet.Im a Beretta guy, but if I were to buy a striker fired pistol it would be the venerable G-19.
    Last edited by denner; 12-05-2012 at 03:54 PM.

  14. #13
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Lets say you have one in the chamber on a beretta, to unload, do you drop the mag and rack it? like a glock?

  15. #14
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    Lets say you have one in the chamber on a beretta, to unload, do you drop the mag and rack it? like a glock?
    If you are serious w/ a question like that please take more classes in addition to the 4 hour safety course you attended. Sounds like you need some hands on training by a professional. Yes you would, unless you owned a flip up barrel Beretta Cheeta 380, Bobcat or Jetfire .22, or .32 Tomcat, or a Taurus pocket pistol . To unload you flip a lever and the barrel pops up ejecting the round, likewise to load you can either rack the slide or place one in the barrel and snap it shut.

  16. #15
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    I learned on a glock what can i say!

  17. #16
    paratrooper is offline Senior Member
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    You simply cannot go wrong buying a Beretta 92FS.

    It has a safety and a de-cocker.

  18. #17
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    Repeat Thread?

    Didn't you post this exact same thread yesterday and receive ample opinions??

  19. #18
    berettabone is offline Banned
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    And they keep suggesting Glock.....wow
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLAGuy View Post
    My wife is okay with it now with everything going on in the world these days (including huge disaster, election, world in turmoil, etc). She's not ecstatic about it, but she says its my choice. She's from Europe and guns are highly revered over in those neck of the woods.

    A question regarding non-glock guns, to put one in the chamber what do you have to do? rack it, take off the thumb safety, then pull back the trigger? after you shoot one, the trigger goes back and ready to fire. for some reason you want to decock the gun, use the decocker? i know this might sound simple but most of my experience has to deal with glocks.

  20. #19
    kerrycork is offline Junior Member
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    The best safety available is a well informed operator.

  21. #20
    jakeleinen1 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerrycork View Post
    The best safety available is a well informed operator.
    ^This guy

  22. #21
    denner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerrycork View Post
    The best safety available is a well informed operator.
    and

    "Even with good training, people forget." "And guns are not forgiving."



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0
    Last edited by denner; 12-05-2012 at 09:52 PM.

  23. #22
    rex
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    I just posted this in your other thread:

    "It depends on your comfort zone,and the Glock/safety issue is a catch 22.

    Safety has to be ingrained in that finger to run a Glock,remember that quite a few Glock NDs are when cleaning-a round is missed in the chamber and the trigger has to be pulled for takedown,oops that hurt.You'd be surprised how many people have brainfade and rack the slide before dropping the mag.

    On the other side,you have to have the act of taking off the safety ingrained just like the trigger finger.I've carried and shot a shtload of rounds through 1911s for a long time,I have never missed the safety or had it cost me a hundredth of a second on the clock,contrary to the naysayer's opinions.

    What you need to do is figure out which you're going to be cool with.If that finger can be contained go "safe action" striker fired,if you think you need to play it safe go with an easily manipulated safety to help ingrain the basics so the safety rules are subconsciencely covered.

    In Glock vs 1911 debates I give this example:

    A Glock fires by pulling the trigger through a kind of short pull that can break at under 5lbs up,boom.

    A 1911 fires by gripping to deactivate the grip safety so the trigger can move and take the thumb safety off.While the pull is shorter,a nasty GI trigger can have a lot of creep and stack at 7lbs easily,boom.

    Is there really much difference between the 2, that a 1911 carried with the safety off and a Glock, are operating so close to the same that it isn't really different?With both in that state of readiness,I can make the Glock go off and the 1911 can't.

    Pick what's in you comfort zone,proficiency takes time and practice."


    From reading this one,go with a safety for now and familiarize yourself more with the differences between operating principles.All autos you will either rack the slide or drop it from locked open after inserting a mag.At that point things change.On a Glock type gun you don't touch the trigger until you need to hear a bang,decock to be basically like a revolver,or put the safety on to block the hammer from falling until taken off.

    I have a Beretta 92 and love it,but I don't prefer the slide mounted safeties because it's an unnatural move for me to take it off.I can and don't have a problem with it but it's odd for me.I prefer frame mounted safeties/decockers,it's a more natural act to operate them.Your choice though.

  24. #23
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex View Post
    I just posted this in your other thread:

    "It depends on your comfort zone,and the Glock/safety issue is a catch 22.

    Safety has to be ingrained in that finger to run a Glock,remember that quite a few Glock NDs are when cleaning-a round is missed in the chamber and the trigger has to be pulled for takedown,oops that hurt.You'd be surprised how many people have brainfade and rack the slide before dropping the mag.

    On the other side,you have to have the act of taking off the safety ingrained just like the trigger finger.I've carried and shot a shtload of rounds through 1911s for a long time,I have never missed the safety or had it cost me a hundredth of a second on the clock,contrary to the naysayer's opinions.

    What you need to do is figure out which you're going to be cool with.If that finger can be contained go "safe action" striker fired,if you think you need to play it safe go with an easily manipulated safety to help ingrain the basics so the safety rules are subconsciencely covered.

    In Glock vs 1911 debates I give this example:

    A Glock fires by pulling the trigger through a kind of short pull that can break at under 5lbs up,boom.

    A 1911 fires by gripping to deactivate the grip safety so the trigger can move and take the thumb safety off.While the pull is shorter,a nasty GI trigger can have a lot of creep and stack at 7lbs easily,boom.

    Is there really much difference between the 2, that a 1911 carried with the safety off and a Glock, are operating so close to the same that it isn't really different?With both in that state of readiness,I can make the Glock go off and the 1911 can't.

    Pick what's in you comfort zone,proficiency takes time and practice."


    From reading this one,go with a safety for now and familiarize yourself more with the differences between operating principles.All autos you will either rack the slide or drop it from locked open after inserting a mag.At that point things change.On a Glock type gun you don't touch the trigger until you need to hear a bang,decock to be basically like a revolver,or put the safety on to block the hammer from falling until taken off.

    I have a Beretta 92 and love it,but I don't prefer the slide mounted safeties because it's an unnatural move for me to take it off.I can and don't have a problem with it but it's odd for me.I prefer frame mounted safeties/decockers,it's a more natural act to operate them.Your choice though.
    great comment, and its if you have a revolver and its loaded, you take the safety off and pull that trigger, that gun is going to fire!

    i think the da/sa might be safer in a certain way, but another catch .22. by the time you rack that first round, take the safety off, might be too late if a predator is upon you, right?

  25. #24
    rex
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    Revolvers don't have a safety as you're thinking,they have a block or transfer bar to connect the hammer and firing pin when the trigger is pulled,like a firing pin safety in an auto (semi-auto pistol).When you shut the cylender on a DA revolver just pull the trigger and it will fire,similar to Glocks and the like.Or you can cock the hammer SA.

    Also no,on DA/SA autos There's a decock lever,and when you hit it after chambering a round it safely drops the hammer without hitting the firing pin.Some levers will rebound back so all you do is pull the trigger,like Sig and HK.Others like Beretta and that slide style decocker can stay in the decock position acting as a safety.You can leave it there and have a dead trigger that would be beneficial if someone grabbed the gun,but...... On this style safety I decock and flip the lever back where it was,pull the trigger any time you like and it goes off just like a revolver or Glock type pistol.

  26. #25
    TheLAGuy is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex View Post
    Revolvers don't have a safety as you're thinking,they have a block or transfer bar to connect the hammer and firing pin when the trigger is pulled,like a firing pin safety in an auto (semi-auto pistol).When you shut the cylender on a DA revolver just pull the trigger and it will fire,similar to Glocks and the like.Or you can cock the hammer SA.

    Also no,on DA/SA autos There's a decock lever,and when you hit it after chambering a round it safely drops the hammer without hitting the firing pin.Some levers will rebound back so all you do is pull the trigger,like Sig and HK.Others like Beretta and that slide style decocker can stay in the decock position acting as a safety.You can leave it there and have a dead trigger that would be beneficial if someone grabbed the gun,but...... On this style safety I decock and flip the lever back where it was,pull the trigger any time you like and it goes off just like a revolver or Glock type pistol.
    What's your favorite at the range?

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