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  1. #21
    recoilguy's Avatar
    recoilguy is offline Senior Member
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    The S&W Sigma is a Glock clone, a very poor example of one but one none the less. The S&W M&P I have to disagree. Why ? Because I know guns and this is just not so.

    The K9 is nothing like the 2 Kahrs you mentioned but if you don't like the feel of Kahrs I am sure you would not like the K9 either.

    So many opinions in this thread right now, my opinion is simple, get the best gun you can afford and if you can not afford a good one save for a while longer. Internet knowlege is nothing compared to real hands on. Too many internetters speak with authority but sadly are incorrect with authority.

    RCG

  2. #22
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    berettatoter is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakinghorizons View Post
    Hey everyone, I know these threads are quite subjective, but I am just looking for some advice. Many of the ranges around here have limited guns to rent, so I am limited as to what I can go shoot.

    First and foremost, I am limited to a budget of $500. I'm willing to purchase new or used. I am seeking a firearm for concealed carry, in 9mm. The current firearm I carry (.380) is heavy (29oz) and has a low capacity (8+1). I am interested in both polymer and 1911 platforms, but would like a commander barrel and officer grip if I go the 1911 route. I have shot many 1911's (in .45, never in 9mm) and have shot the xd compact 9mm, xdm 9mm, and m&p compact 9mm (I have shot other calibers, but that is irrelevant). I preferred the m&p over the xd. I am not looking for a Glock. the I guess the reason for my posting is, what other firearms should I look into before spending the money on the m&p. I like the m&p, but don't want to limit my options.

    Any other suggestions for firearms? I'm willing to drive to a firing range that has specific firearms to rent, I would just prefer to be able to call around and see who has a specific firearm before taking a drive.
    You might want to look into the Ruger guns. Check out the SR9c or the LC9, both are great for CC.

  3. #23
    clance's Avatar
    clance is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakinghorizons View Post
    I have held the kahr models (pm9, cw9, etc) and just didn't care for the feel. Thanks for the suggestion though!

    I'm guessing that you want something along the lines then of a compact double stack seeing you leaning toward the XD or M&P, apparently you don't care if it's thin or not. Between the two I would go with the M&P personally, I just like the feel and point of aim of the pistol better then the XD.

    But another pistol if you want a double stack compact worth looking at is the CZ 75 D PCR or CZ 75 P0-7 (I have a custom PCR just love it as well as a first model TP-9 Kahr, love that one too). Both have decocks both are light (first one has a alloy frame the other polymer) both magazines carry 13 rounds and both meet NATO standards for what it's worth.

    The CZ is concidered comparable to the Browning High Power (BHP) which set the standard in pistol ergonomics which I agree after having owned approx. 8 BHP in my time, giving the last one up for the PCR due to its light weight, the ability of DA/SA and the decock.

    CZ in my opinion is one of the best buys out there and I would have no problems putting up my PCR against pistol out there costing several hundred$ more, for accuracy, reliability, fit and finish.

  4. #24
    jdw68 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by recoilguy View Post
    The S&W Sigma is a Glock clone, a very poor example of one but one none the less. The S&W M&P I have to disagree. Why ? Because I know guns and this is just not so.

    RCG
    The M & P is an obvious clone. Kahr PM9 is also a (single stack) Glock clone. Lots of gun makers have created their version of the Glock just because it's a great design. Some folks cannot admit this because they hate Glocks. Easier to hate the Glock than everthing derived from the Glock. HA! My favorite part of your post was "Why? Because I know guns"

  5. #25
    recoilguy's Avatar
    recoilguy is offline Senior Member
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    I am not sure I understand your post but it appears you are calling me a Glock hater and impying I don't know much about handguns. Before I go any further with this thread I would like a point of clarity. I hope you aren't calling me a Glock hater and I would like to undersand the laughing smiley face thing so similar to that which my 7th grade daughter uses on her internet posts.

    RCG

  6. #26
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdw68 View Post
    The M & P is an obvious clone. Kahr PM9 is also a (single stack) Glock clone. Lots of gun makers have created their version of the Glock just because it's a great design. Some folks cannot admit this because they hate Glocks. Easier to hate the Glock than everthing derived from the Glock. HA! My favorite part of your post was "Why? Because I know guns"
    ok, so the sigma IS a glock clone... s&w settled a lawsuit out of court and had to make changes in the design and pay glock a huge punative damage settlement. they did not recieve a licensing agreement however.
    the m&p is a direct desendant of the 2nd generation sigma, the model produced AFTER the design changes mandated by the settlement.
    so the m&p is no more a glock clone that the glock is a clone of the hk vp70 (12 years before the glock) or the browning hipower.

    a polymer firearm isnt unique.... remmington started making the nylon 66 in 1959 (11years before the vp70)....

    and i do know guns

  7. #27
    rex
    rex is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdw68 View Post
    The M & P is an obvious clone. Kahr PM9 is also a (single stack) Glock clone. Lots of gun makers have created their version of the Glock just because it's a great design. Some folks cannot admit this because they hate Glocks. Easier to hate the Glock than everthing derived from the Glock. HA! My favorite part of your post was "Why? Because I know guns"
    "Everything derived from the Glock" , what could that be?

    Striker fired? Nah

    Plastic frame? Nah

    Polygonal bore? Nah

    Rotten,cheap sights? Eh,maybe

    Safe Action? yes,but it's an oxymoron.

    The Glock was designed as a cheap gun for the masses,masses meaning non gun loving people that like many LEO's and some military,could care less about guns and only have one because you shoved it in their hand.Now you have a person that is not proficient in handgun handling and safety holding a gun with the safety right in the worst place,the bangstick.Common sense would prove this is counter productive to the original intent.

    Being a dangerous gun? Bingo

    If you like Glocks,more power to you,if you don't like me,who cares?I think the most of Browning's 1911 and HKs,and if you ask I will give you my opinion,but the Glock lovers just really put the love/hate debate in a whole new class.The gun is not the most fantastic piece of machinery it's made out to be.How long did it take them to cure a known problem that caused them to blow up?Isn't the locking system a modified Browning design dating to the early 20th century?C'mon now,hyping up the mundane gets old and rediculous after a while.

  8. #28
    shakinghorizons is offline Junior Member
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    Other than the Glock clone debate, thanks for everyone's opinion.

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