Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 37 of 37
  1. #26
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is offline HGF Forum Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Beretta City, Texas
    Posts
    10,724
    Not changing my mind, and I can probably find articles to back up my point of view as well. We're not getting anywhere here.

    We can agree to disagree - others can read the thread and make up their own mind.

  2. Ads
  3. #27
    denner's Avatar
    denner is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,812
    Wrong or Right, Copper to Gold, Batwings to Cauldron, I will always follow the advice below as even if I'm wrong I know my magazine springs will be right. A self defense pistol or rifle for that matter which fails to function in a time of desperate need is a terrible thing one much worse than arguments over springs. Furthermore, creasing of the rounds by being left fully loaded in magazines for extended periods of time is perhaps another good reason not to. I know one thing when I shot that Berreta that didn't cycle because of the magazine spring or creasing of the rounds it shook me real good to consider what if? I know I will never leave magazines fully loaded for extended periods of time and rely on them 100%.

    5. How often should I change magazine springs? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?
    Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

    Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines which could last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.

    More recently higher capacity magazines have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.

    In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably.
    Last edited by denner; 08-01-2012 at 06:48 PM.

  4. #28
    jdw68 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    122
    The truth is we really don't know what exactly caused a spring to fail when we discover our spring is bad, because there are just to many variables. For example, did the spring come with a defect from the factory, is it made from a cheaper material, is this spring loaded in a single or double stack magazine, and what are the conditions in which it is stored. Some folks will claim to have knowledge in metallurgy, science, experience, etc, but they don't all seem to agree. I am not an expert on this subject and certainly am not trying to change the way anyone practices. However, common sense just tells me that rotating a magazine every month or two just seems to make sense. I also only load my Beretta 92 mags one shy of max capacity when being left stored. Why? Because, I doubt that I will ever be in a gunfight and lose because I had 14 rounds instead of 15. I also think that a large double stack mag puts more pressure on springs than a 1911 style. In addition, every once in a while I like to shoot the expensive hollow points at the practice range just to make sure everything is still functioning properly before I load it back up for defensive purposes. That way I know the magazine is working, the gun still cycles that ammo, no creases are forming on the cases, and I can hit with the ammo I plan to use for self defense. I may be crazy and waisting my time, but it really doesn't take that much time to cycle a magazine, especially if your doing it at the range And, for those who like to claim that science has already discovered the answer and that we are backward not to accept the facts. Well, the problem with scientists is that they are always discovering the answer and then later discovering that what was so obvious before is now obviously wrong. Sometimes, common sense tells me to stick to what works.

  5. #29
    SMann is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    431
    It has been my experience that the weapons I've fired that use double stack mags have springs that are fully compressed when fully loaded. When trying to insert a fully loaded mag when the slide or bolt is forward, the top round in the mag must be pushed down by the slide/bolt for the mag to be inserted. If the spring is fully compressed the extra space is made by the staggered rounds being pushed outboard. This made me have to hit the bottom of the mag to get it to lock in. The sides of the mag bulge causing the mag to want to stay in place even if the mag release is pressed. I have even seen m16 mags split at the seem where they are spot welded together due the performing repeated combat reloads with fully loaded mags (inserting fresh mag while round is still in chamber meaning bolt is forward). Because my carry piece has plastic double stack mags and plastic seems to have memory, I download them by 1. There are reasons other than 'spring fatigue' to consider downloading certain mags.

  6. #30
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,859
    i use ramline magazines, no longer made.... but they used a coiled ribbon spring to maintain a steady pressure, no binding, and since the spring isnt under compression when the magazine is loaded, it makes these kinda debates useless. the coiled ribbon spring becomes smaller as the magazine is loaded and therefore creates more room for additional rounds beyond the standard magazine. these carry a lifetime guarantee thru ramline....

    the company stopped producitng them during the assault weapons ban and magazine capacity limits.... too bad.

  7. #31
    870ShellShucker's Avatar
    870ShellShucker is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    91
    This thread could be used to help sell Revolvers.

    This is a very good group of forums.

  8. #32
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chino Valley, AZ
    Posts
    510
    Quote Originally Posted by zhurdan View Post
    That's because you are seemingly unwilling to understand that physics and metallurgy aren't hocus pocus. Is it applicable in every instance? Of course not. Does it have merit based on decades of empirical evidence? Absolutely. Your personal experience doesn't trump that. . . *cough* datapoints *cough*.

    If your experience is such that you believe what you do, fine, but I'd hope you would recognize that a data point of one is a lonely place to be.
    OK, I've been here more than a few times. In my humble opinion, no one is totally right or wrong about "springs".

    1. I'm on Zhurdan's side with regard to scientific method. And with regard to springs.
    This has the caveat that the springs in question have to be properly designed with regard to all the possible spring variables to promote "proper life".
    Amongst a myriad of "stuff", this means the spring metallurgy is "properly done", as well as the design variables.

    2. I'm on Shipwreck's side when he claims "real world experience" In my humble opinion, his observations occurr because the
    spring manufacturer did NOT follow all of the design/metallurgy requirements to achieve a spring with "infinite life" given it usage requirements.
    Whether this is due to design ignorance, lack of proper steel material selection/heat treating, or just plain saving dollars I cannot say.

    But:
    I can say that Shipwreck's "treating magazine's safety items" as the cautious alternative can obliviate "Item 2 problems" makes sense.

    When in doubt, go conservative. (This is a real problem with airplanes. If you go "too conservative", the damn things won't fly).
    Not a problem with magazines. Screw "the debate". Go conservative, replace springs. Expect them to work EVERY time they are needed.
    The problem with this is do you actually know the replacement springs are any better than the "trash" you replaced ? Do you ?

    Hey, I just stumbled on the answer ! It's revolvers !
    In return for going back to only five or six rounds, the damn things work every time !
    I'm taking my FS92 and my extra 15 round mag off my nightstand next to my Mossberg 500 with 7 + 1 double-ought buckshot.

    And, replacing it with my Ruger SuperRedhawk Alaskan 2.5 in. snubby in .454 Casull.
    I may not be able to hit anything when the dogs wake me up from a deep sleep. But, by G_D, they'll be bailing due to the noise !

  9. #33
    jm38 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    41
    Spring steel comes in different tensile strengths and will not change by being compressed. Working the spring rapidly will create heat, and heat, over time will alter the tensile strength of the spring. Loading a spring and leaving it loaded will not weaken the spring steel.

  10. #34
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is offline HGF Forum Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Beretta City, Texas
    Posts
    10,724
    Quote Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell View Post
    i use ramline magazines, no longer made.... but they used a coiled ribbon spring to maintain a steady pressure, no binding, and since the spring isnt under compression when the magazine is loaded, it makes these kinda debates useless. the coiled ribbon spring becomes smaller as the magazine is loaded and therefore creates more room for additional rounds beyond the standard magazine. these carry a lifetime guarantee thru ramline....

    the company stopped producitng them during the assault weapons ban and magazine capacity limits.... too bad.
    I'm gonna avoid the main topic because it never ends - just see the post right before mine (#33)... I've stated my opinion and cited examples...

    But as for ram line, you should check the glocktalk forum... There is a guy that started a thread there last week, nostalgic about the old Ramline items...No remember Ramline differently, and so does everyone else that posted, except for mr nostalgic....

    I remember Ramline mags in the 1990s are jam-o-mastic garbage that wouldn't even feed one round without jamming. Right before the 1994 ban, distributors hoarded hi cap factory mags, in anticipation of what they could get for them once the ban went into effect. So all that was left in my area of the country were aftermarket mags... I tried several Ramline mags. They were horrendous.

  11. #35
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I'm gonna avoid the main topic because it never ends - just see the post right before mine (#33)... I've stated my opinion and cited examples...

    But as for ram line, you should check the glocktalk forum... There is a guy that started a thread there last week, nostalgic about the old Ramline items...No remember Ramline differently, and so does everyone else that posted, except for mr nostalgic....

    I remember Ramline mags in the 1990s are jam-o-mastic garbage that wouldn't even feed one round without jamming. Right before the 1994 ban, distributors hoarded hi cap factory mags, in anticipation of what they could get for them once the ban went into effect. So all that was left in my area of the country were aftermarket mags... I tried several Ramline mags. They were horrendous.
    roflmao.... so i own the only taurus pistols and the only ramline mags that arent crap and never jammed? i wish i had used that kinda luck to win the lotto instead...i coulda bout good stuff with the money

  12. #36
    Shipwreck's Avatar
    Shipwreck is offline HGF Forum Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Beretta City, Texas
    Posts
    10,724
    I see all sorts of typos in that from my ipad autocorrect - Damn autocorrect...

    But yea - Ramline is known as junk....

  13. #37
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
    TedDeBearFrmHell is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post
    I see all sorts of typos in that from my ipad autocorrect - Damn autocorrect...

    But yea - Ramline is known as junk....
    then i guess i will keep the 4 that i have as examples of the exceptions to the rule.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Ads

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

american handgunner magazine spring madness

,
beretta 92 double stack magazine misfeed
,
double stack magazines beretta 92fs
,

glock magazine spring fatigue

,

is it bad to keep magazines fully loaded

,

is it bad to leave beretta magazines loaded

,
is it good to keep a gun magazine fully loaded all year round
,

is it okay to leave a magazine loaded over long periods of time?

,

loading double stack magazine

,

magazine spring fatigue

,

ram line pistol mags

,

ram-line magazine warranty

Click on a term to search for related topics.