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  1. #1
    MrJport10's Avatar
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    Medical Marijuana & handguns

    Hoping an active LEO in a medical marijuana state, or anyone with knowledge may answer..

    If I were to obtain a license to possess and use pot for medicinal reasons, how would this impact my ability to carry legally? It's obvious that carrying while under the influence of pot would be a no no. What about possessing pot, without being under the influence? Example going to the clinic to purchase? Some of the places I've been to in California are in rough areas.. just wondering if anyone knows what the law says..

    I know not everyone will agree with the whole medical marijuana topic. I don't want to engage a debate on it, or rile anyone up... Just asking an honest question

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  3. #2
    zhurdan's Avatar
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    Wow.

  4. #3
    skullfr's Avatar
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    You need to research the CALI laws for that.In TX you cant possess a weapon in an establishment that derives 51% of its income from alcohol.Might be something like that in your states law.

  5. #4
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    Here in Hawaii. Firearms and Med Marij. don't mix, you can only have one or the other. Otherwise the feds will be paying you a visit.


    I don't remember exactly how it goes but that's something we had to learn in the class to required to acquire.

  6. #5
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    totally legal in oregon, med marijuanna can not be used as a reason to deny you a ccw, as it is legal in the state AND the ccw is state issued.

    i have a friend here who suffers from MS, she is a retired deputy sheriff, she has her medical marijuana card AND her ccw in their own spiffy lil ID holder. she is NOT impaired when she smokes, it effects her nervous system differently than it effects most people. she has less pain, works like tylenol does for me (for her its the ONLY thing that works)

  7. #6
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Unless the ATF has reversed its stance on the matter there was a recent letter stating that med marijujana users are prohibited persons at the federal level and unable to legally possess firearms period.

  8. #7
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    OK, it was about a year ago, here's the letter:
    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/09/092611-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf


    In short: Medicinal pot = prohibited person by Federal law regardless of what the state says is legal as the states can not make legal what Federal law makes illegal.

    So to answer the OP:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrJport10 View Post
    Hoping an active LEO in a medical marijuana state, or anyone with knowledge may answer..

    If I were to obtain a license to possess and use pot for medicinal reasons, how would this impact my ability to carry legally? It's obvious that carrying while under the influence of pot would be a no no. What about possessing pot, without being under the influence? Example going to the clinic to purchase? Some of the places I've been to in California are in rough areas.. just wondering if anyone knows what the law says..

    I know not everyone will agree with the whole medical marijuana topic. I don't want to engage a debate on it, or rile anyone up... Just asking an honest question

    It would probably sink your battleship should the issuing authority be aware of the ATF's letter and possibly land you in jail.

  9. #8
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    as for the ILLEGAL use of marijuana , the form 4473 asks in question

    " e. Are you an unlawful user of , or addicted to, marijuana , or any depressant, stimulant or narcotic drug or any other controlled substance?"

    this is solely for the PURCHASE of a firearm thru a FFL dealer. it doesnt effect in any way your right to OWN or CARRY a gun that you already possess.

    we can debate the wording of ILLEGAL and ADDICTED in the context of med marijuana but its a moot point.

    the med marijuana IS a state law as is the issuance of a ccw, IF the ccw has no restrictions regarding the issuance to medical marijuana card holders then the state is obligated to issue the ccw.

    the validity of the medical marijuana laws are being argued at the federal level but till i see a federal statute that restricts POSSESSION (not the purchase) of the firearm, i dont see the link.

    in the below article the supreme court refuses to overturn the oregon courts requiring the issuance of the ccw to the med marijuana users.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...declines-cert/
    Last edited by TedDeBearFrmHell; 07-12-2012 at 04:35 PM. Reason: forgot to post link

  10. #9
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell View Post
    as for the ILLEGAL use of marijuana , the form 4473 asks in question

    " e. Are you an unlawful user of , or addicted to, marijuana , or any depressant, stimulant or narcotic drug or any other controlled substance?"

    this is solely for the PURCHASE of a firearm thru a FFL dealer. it doesnt effect in any way your right to OWN or CARRY a gun that you already possess.

    we can debate the wording of ILLEGAL and ADDICTED in the context of med marijuana but its a moot point.

    the med marijuana IS a state law as is the issuance of a ccw, IF the ccw has no restrictions regarding the issuance to medical marijuana card holders then the state is obligated to issue the ccw.

    the validity of the medical marijuana laws are being argued at the federal level but till i see a federal statute that restricts POSSESSION (not the purchase) of the firearm, i dont see the link.
    You're right on the CCW, but what good is the CCW if admitting that you have a gun AND are a medicinal user of a controlled substance is a federal offense?

    The 4473 is a Federal form, required by federal law.

    There is no provision under the federal law for medicinal use of marijuana

    Identify Prohibited Persons



    1. ATF Home
    2. Firearms
    3. How To
    4. Identify Prohibited Persons


    Identify Prohibited Persons

    The Gun Control Act (GCA) makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms. 18 USC 922(g). Transfers of firearms to any such prohibited persons are also unlawful. 18 USC 922(d).

    These categories include any person:

    • Under indictment or information in any court for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
    • convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
    • who is a fugitive from justice;
    • who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;



    Again, according to the text of the letter from the ATF referenced above....here it is again:


    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/09/092611-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf


    There is no difference between medicinal use and the common doper in the eyes of the federal code and being a medicinal MJ user is UNLAWFUL USE and there fore the person would "should" be answering "YES" to that question on the 4473 that they are a drug user.

  11. #10
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAMarine View Post
    .......



    Again, according to the text of the letter from the ATF referenced above....here it is again:


    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/09/092611-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf


    There is no difference between medicinal use and the common doper in the eyes of the federal code and being a medicinal MJ user is UNLAWFUL USE and there fore the person would "should" be answering "YES" to that question on the 4473 that they are a drug user.
    i agree with you 100% , IF you are PURCHASING a firearm thru a FFL dealer, the form is required and MAY effect your ability to buy a firearm

    but there is not a single state that requires form 4473 compliance as a prerequisite to obtaining a ccw. the above letter from the atf is not STATUTE nor does it refer to the issuance of a ccw, its if for FFL dealers and the PURCHASE...

  12. #11
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedDeBearFrmHell View Post
    i agree with you 100% , IF you are PURCHASING a firearm thru a FFL dealer, the form is required and MAY effect your ability to buy a firearm

    but there is not a single state that requires form 4473 compliance as a prerequisite to obtaining a ccw. the above letter from the atf is not STATUTE nor does it refer to the issuance of a ccw, its if for FFL dealers and the PURCHASE...

    Try and follow along here...


    IF YOU ARE A DRUG USER, YOU ARE FEDERALLY PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING FIREARMS, NOT JUST BUYING, BUT POSSESSING A FIREARM...AS IN HAVING ONE IN YOUR POSSESSION / OWNING ONE IS A FELONY.


    IF YOU CAN NOT POSSESS A FIREARM, UNDER FEDERAL LAW, GOING INTO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND SAYING "I'M A DRUG USER AND I HAVE A GUN I WANT TO CARRY" CAN GET YOUR TOSSED IN JAIL FOR ILLEGAL POSSESSION OF A FIREARM




    Want to hear it from a lawyer? Here:
    http://www.williamslawonline.com/Press-Room/Top-10-Things-Know-About-Federal-Gun-Law.shtml
    5. No guns for drug users. Federal law also says that any person "who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance" is barred from possessing guns. 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(3). What does that mean? Good question. "[T]he exact reach of the statute is not easy to define," to say the least! United States v. Jackson, 280 F.3d 403, 406 (4th Cir.), cert. denied, 536 U.S. 911 (2002).

    The consensus seems to be that the statute does not apply to "infrequent" drug users or to those who used drugs in the "distant past." Instead, it is aimed at those whose drug use is "sufficiently consistent, 'prolonged,' and close in time to [their] gun possession to put [them] on notice that [they] qualified as an unlawful user of drugs under the statute." United States v. Edwards, 38 Fed. Appx. 134, 138 (4th Cir. 2002), cert. denied, --- U.S. ---, 123 S.Ct. 1764 (2003).
    The bottom line is that if you have someone with a drug problem, you should tell them to get rid of their guns. If it is a close call, tell them about the law and let them decide if they want to take the risk of owning a gun.






  13. #12
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    ok, try to follow along here (same size and color as always, no need to imply that you just dont "get it")

    the above quoted statute refers to purchase of firearms and ammo... "possession in commerce" IE the SALE of a weapon. if you read the actual wording of the law, you would see that the word "possess" is being used OUT OF CONTEXT here and had no bearing on the OPs question about ccw.

  14. #13
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    and here is a solution that you may like even less..... IF the possession of a firearm is a felony once the user gets his medical marijuana card, then he is not required to get his ccw because to attempt to do so would violate his 5th amendment rights against self incrimination.

    IF he follows the law as you purport, he would be REQUIRED to incriminate himself as a felon, since he is protected by the 5th amendmant against just that , then he can not be charged with failure to do what would violate his rights

  15. #14
    rex
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    Welcome to the grey area,it is illegal as things set now.Federal law supercedes state law.

    Now,I smoked weed years ago,the laws are made by pencil pushers or payoffs that buy into the War on Drugs money pit.In general if you have a buzz you will be very aware and unconfrontational-HMM,sounds like the life of a CCW'er,eh?The problem I see is the buzzed ones pushing the cease and disist too far and go beyond the point of no return and into the hospital or morgue.People are different and react different,but in my experience alcohol is way more dangerous.The other end of the spectrum is a Cheech and Chong gig,no worries there even if they grow the kahonies to leave the house.

    Personally this topic is being controlled by the likes of men that want to eliminate abortion-if you've never gotten high you have no right to guess how it is,just like if you're a man you have no right to tell a raped and beaten woman she has to live her life staring at a child to remind her that she's F'd in the head because of the worst possible crime you could put her through.This MM deal is going to be a trip either way,and probably a long one.

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    berettabone is offline Banned
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    ..................what?.....................

  17. #16
    RugerP95's Avatar
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    Wow....not a good combination....drugs and guns don't mix.

  18. #17
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    niether is alcohol-the most damaging drug of all.But is a part of life that is accepted.I personally feel the marijuana issue should be legalized.I like most presidents smoked quite abit in my early life and inhaled deeply.But it is a highly profitable for gangs and goverment alike.Think pot is bad yet our troops are in Afghanistan protecting opium fields which pollutes our streets and finances terrorist activity.Remember the Iran-Contra scandal or CIA involvement in opium production in Laos.The govt is the biggest dopers in the free world.

  19. #18
    TedDeBearFrmHell's Avatar
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    i guess i should clarify, i do not now, nor have i ever smoked marijuana. nope, not a single time, not even once. that said, i do enjoy bourbon.

    my arguments here are strictly of the letter of the law variety and have nothing to do with my personal habits or consumption. i do have friends who have medical marijuana cards and some also have ccw permits.

    its legal, oregon courts said so, scotus refused to overturn the ruling.... makes it legal in oregon despite any feelings to the contrary.

  20. #19
    VAMarine's Avatar
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    Leaving the Federal stuff out of it, we can argue over that in circles and probably noone ever be 100% right...





    Regarding Ca and CCW permits, it all depends on the county as CA is "May issue", but as Ca is not exactly well known for being gun friendly I would say that regarding the OP:

    If I were to obtain a license to possess and use pot for medicinal reasons, how would this impact my ability to carry legally? It's obvious that carrying while under the influence of pot would be a no no. What about possessing pot, without being under the influence? Example going to the clinic to purchase? Some of the places I've been to in California are in rough areas.. just wondering if anyone knows what the law says..
    It very well could sink you.

    Looking at the CCW permit app.


    The following raises questions:
    10. Have you witheld any fact that might affect the decision to approve this license?
    No_____Yes_____ (If yes, explain):

    The licensee authorizes the licensing agency to investigate, as they deem necessary, the licensee’s
    record and character to ascertain any and all information which may concern his/her qualifications and
    justification to be issued a license to carry a concealed weapon and release said agency of any and all
    liability arising out of such investigation.
    Seems they could very well look at your medical records as you have authorized them too and that if you do not include the MJ use at line 10 indicated above and they find out about it after, that your goose could be cooked.

    I'd check out Calguns for more information:
    CCW & Medical Marijuana License - Calguns.net

    ccw permit and medical marijuana - Calguns.net

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