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Thread: Federal Law?

  1. #1
    mahermic000 is offline Junior Member
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    Federal Law?

    I had a question regarding federal law when it comes to individuals under the age of 21 transporting a handgun to and from a gun range. I am from Washington State and State law says those individuals are permitted to transport and shoot a handgun at a range, so long as the handgun is in a closed case in the trunk of the car and the ammo is separate. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

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    NewinSD is offline Junior Member
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    I don't think there is a federal law that applies to that. That situation sounds about typical of most states. The only real difference will probably be 18 vs 21. The best answer for this sort of question is always "check your local laws." It is your butt that gets a free ride in the car with the blue lights, so make sure to cover it well.

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    mahermic000 is offline Junior Member
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    I have checked local laws and talked to a few sheriff offices and they also tell me it's legal. I go to one range and they allow me to shoot and buy ammo with no questions asked cause they follow state law. However I wanted to try a new range and the guy helping me said it is against federal law for me to be in possession , carry, shoot, etc. a handgun without someone who is 21 years accompanying me.

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    I believe NewinSD is correct. The only laws that the Federal government puts forth are the following (from Wikipedia - Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act):

    People who are not allowed to bear arms (legally):

    Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors except where state law reinstates rights, or removes disability.

    Fugitives from justice

    Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs

    Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution and currently containing a dangerous mental illness.

    Non-US citizens, unless permanently immigrating into the U.S. or in possession of a hunting license legally issued in the U.S.

    Illegal Aliens

    Those who have renounced U.S. citizenship

    Minors defined as under the age of eighteen for long guns and handguns, with the exception of Vermont, eligible at age sixteen.

    Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (an addition)

    Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition

  5. #5
    fuzzyjon79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahermic000 View Post
    I have checked local laws and talked to a few sheriff offices and they also tell me it's legal. I go to one range and they allow me to shoot and buy ammo with no questions asked cause they follow state law. However I wanted to try a new range and the guy helping me said it is against federal law for me to be in possession , carry, shoot, etc. a handgun without someone who is 21 years accompanying me.
    If both ranges are in close proximity, you're probably okay. Have you mentioned this contradictory information to the Sheriff?

  6. #6
    mahermic000 is offline Junior Member
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    State Law of Washington:

    RCW 9.41.060
    Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

    (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, correctional personnel and community corrections officers as long as they are employed as such who have completed government-sponsored law enforcement firearms training and have been subject to a check through the national instant criminal background check system or an equivalent background check within the past five years, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state. Correctional personnel and community corrections officers seeking the waiver provided for by this section are required to pay for any background check that is needed in order to exercise the waiver;

    (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

    (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

    (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

    (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

    (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;


    (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

    (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.

  7. #7
    mahermic000 is offline Junior Member
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    I haven't mentioned to the Sheriff yet that specific range denied me access even after I mentioned state law and the fact that the Sheriff's office gave me the go ahead.

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    NewinSD is offline Junior Member
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    I'm sure the range has the legal right to require 21+ even though it's not good business. Just patronize somewhere else. One of the few rights we have left, just don't tell certain people that may want to change that.

  9. #9
    kg333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahermic000 View Post
    owever I wanted to try a new range and the guy helping me said it is against federal law for me to be in possession , carry, shoot, etc. a handgun without someone who is 21 years accompanying me.
    Emphasis added. This is incorrect, as pointed out by others already. Federal law does not address possession of handguns by those under 21. What federal law does cover is that FFL dealers cannot sell handguns or handgun ammunition to those under 21. Since those in the regular business of buying or selling firearms are required to have an FFL, the ranges are probably getting into questionable territory if they sell you ammo for use at the range, so I can't blame them for requiring patrons to be older than 21 or accompanied.

    KG

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    mahermic000 is offline Junior Member
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    I was told about this federal code in which it does address "Juvenile" possession (under the age of 18) which I'm assume could also be carried over to those under 21 who had written consent as well.
    18 U.S.C 922 US Code Section 922:Unlawful acts
    a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (3) This subsection does not apply to -
    (A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a
    juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition
    by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and
    used by the juvenile -
    (i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or
    farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile
    (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the
    juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee,
    is performing activities related to the operation of the farm
    or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction
    in the safe and lawful use of a handgun
    ;
    (ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent
    or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local
    law from possessing a firearm
    , except -
    (I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded
    handgun in a locked container directly from the place of
    transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause

    (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of
    that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly
    from the place at which such an activity took place to the
    transferor; or
    (II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as
    described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a
    handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the
    juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of
    an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law
    from possessing a firearm;

  11. #11
    mahermic000 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kg333 View Post
    Emphasis added. This is incorrect, as pointed out by others already. Federal law does not address possession of handguns by those under 21. What federal law does cover is that FFL dealers cannot sell handguns or handgun ammunition to those under 21. Since those in the regular business of buying or selling firearms are required to have an FFL, the ranges are probably getting into questionable territory if they sell you ammo for use at the range, so I can't blame them for requiring patrons to be older than 21 or accompanied.

    KG
    I was told about this federal code in which it does address "Juvenile" possession (under the age of 18) which I'm assume could also be carried over to those under 21 who had written consent as well.
    18 U.S.C 922 US Code Section 922:Unlawful acts
    a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (3) This subsection does not apply to -
    (A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a
    juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition
    by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and
    used by the juvenile -
    (i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or
    farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile
    (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the
    juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee,
    is performing activities related to the operation of the farm
    or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction
    in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
    (ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent
    or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local
    law from possessing a firearm, except -
    (I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded
    handgun in a locked container directly from the place of
    transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause
    (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of
    that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly
    from the place at which such an activity took place to the
    transferor; or
    (II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as
    described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a
    handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the
    juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of
    an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law
    from possessing a firearm;

  12. #12
    NewinSD is offline Junior Member
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    Just one more example of the idiocy of government at all levels. I'm 23 and can barely remember The Constitution being taught at all. Good example of government taking every chance of keeping its citizens under educated and dependent.

    Sorry if that is a bit off topic.

  13. #13
    bruce333's Avatar
    bruce333 is offline HGF Forum Moderator
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    The ammunition age restriction is in 18 USC 922(b)(1) (lower case b not the capital B)

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
    manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
    deliver -
    (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the
    licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than
    eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is
    other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or
    rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable
    cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
    US Code Title 18 Section 922

    note that this only applies to a Licensed Dealer, etc., it doesn't prohibit buying from a private seller.
    Bruce, Life Member: NRA, NCRPA, GRNC, GOA

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    "I personally think we developed language because of our deep inner need to complain."--Jane Wagner
    "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
    -Isaac Asimov

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    cclaxton's Avatar
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    Also, it's not just about the laws but about how its enforced in your particular jurisdiction...I would trust the range operators on this one. They can't afford to take any risk in losing their business licenses. I would follow their lead on this matter. You don't want to get into a gun violation before you reach 21. Just follow the stupid rules until you turn 21 just like you followed stupid rules until you became 18.

    CC

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    NewinSD is offline Junior Member
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    Is there any exception if they are selling the ammo for use on an on-site range?

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    The only thing that the BATFE might do is make you drop it off in Mexico!

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